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Anyone used the service menu on a Philips TV?

Discussion in 'TVs' started by John Jennings, Mar 8, 2002.

  1. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Anyone used the service menu on a Philips TV?


    At the moment I’m trying to correct a really minor problem on my Philips PW6006; the picture is offset 3-4mm to the left of centre (it’s not RGB left-shift, it happens on all video signals).

    I’m dubious to do this since I tried this before on my previous PW6006 and somehow the geometry got utterly messed up and required me to get a replacement set (I managed to blag it under guarantee thank goodness). I used the remote code mentioned on

    http://home.hccnet.nl/m.majoor/tv__service_mode.htm

    I’d adjusted it three or four times myself successfully, but after the fourth time at the instant I turned the TV off (to close the service menu) the geometry went nuts (I saw it flick to the stupid settings as it turned itself to standby); 4:3 filled the whole screen, Widescreen mode was left with really bad pincushion on both sides of several inches.

    When going to the service menu again after turning it back on I couldn’t correct the problem. I could set up the geometry to a good level again (I’d written down the default settings) but as soon as I changed channel, or turned the TV off, the geometry went back to those crazy settings (basically the telly would no longer save my changes in the service menu).

    I’m feeling reluctant to go into the service menu on my new TV despite the fact it’s a really simple adjustment to make (I only need to adjust the horizontal shift by a tiny amount). As far as I know I did nothing wrong with my old TV.

    Has anyone else heard of, or experienced, the problem above?
    Would changing the widescreen mode (4:3,14:9,16:9 etc) whilst the service menu is open cause problems? I think I did this last time when it went nuts. There don't appear to be separate Widescreen/4:3 geometry options like there are for the pw6515 unless I've missed them...

    Does changing the tuner channel or AV channel whilst the service menu is open cause problems? I think on the last time I used it I flicked between the TV tuner and AV2 (S-VHS scart)
    Is there a ‘correct’ way to close the service menu (I just turned the tv to standby, as pressing the menu button does nothing).

    I suppose I could get an engineer out, but Unbeatable use Endeva who don't seem to know their arse from their elbow.

    Basically, I’m wondering if anyone out there has used this service menu before, and whether they have any tips for me on the points above or any other points. Am I doing anything wrong?

    Cheers,
    John

    Also, there’s an option on the service menu called “Clear?”. Does anyone know what that does? It sounds a bit scary.
     
  2. Ludae

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    I don't know if your service menu is the same as on my 36PW9525, but on my set I just use the menu button on the remote to exit the service menu without saving or the store option followed by the menu button if I recall correctly.

    I have never experienced the problem you have had but then I have never used the power off function to exit the menu.

    I can't say why the memory in your first set would not accept the new values, it sounds somewhat unusual.
     
  3. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Thanks for the reply. Anyone else have experience?

    I'm still slightly unsure why everything went wrong considering it all went fine the first four times. Have Philips put something in to only allow you to use the service menu a few teams before messing it all up (something like PC DVD players only allowing you to region change a few times before it locks them). Sounds unlikely.

    Thinking about it a bit more over the weekend I think it could come down to one of the following two;

    1) Changing widescreen modes whilst in the service menu and closing the menu whilst in a different mode to when I entered it.
    2) Not reverting to the top-level of the service menu before closing it (less likely).

    Anyone?

    Thanks,
    John
     
  4. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Oh well, worth one last *up*
    I go into the service menu tomorrow. May fortune favour the foolish :clown:
     
  5. tom-m

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    Hi John, I have the 6006 and have used the service menu and have found it pretty awkward. I noticed the only way to close it down is to press the (i+) button then switch off by the remote and then on again. I also noticed that certain settings seemed to stay unchanged after I had modified them, for example when I had changed the horizontal EWP from say 26 to 24 it would change back to 26 once I had switched it off and on again. Now, if I changed settings from 26 to 22 it would come back as 24 . As for the clear button, I don`t have a clue what that does, but I must admit if a button says don`t press, then don`t put me in adangerous place, lets just say I did'nt see any difference. By the way what size screen is yours and how did you get on back in the service menu.

    Cheers Tom
     
  6. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Hi Tom,

    Wahey! A fellow PW6006 owner who's dared to delve into the service menu. I can tell you that I did indeed go into the service menu and... (drumroll) .... everything went fine! My picture is now perfectly centred! :D

    Mine's a 28PW6006 by the way.

    To close the menu I just press the Standby button (making sure I reverted back to the top level of the menu first. Don't know if I need to, I just do it to be safe!), I never thought of pressing the i+ button again first. What does pressing the i+ button do in this situation? Does it actually make the service options go away?

    It's VERY interesting (to me anyway) that you had trouble with the EWW & EWP settings. These are the ones that buggered up my first PW6006. They set themselves to some value way way different to their default setting when I closed the service menu (and I hadn't even touched them) and I couldn't get them to save when I changed them to their original values. All other settings saved fine.

    See my other post about this at http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32422

    (called "Annotations on TV service menus)

    I think it's these settings (or at least EWP) that I might need to adjust now. The fact that you've had the same problem with that setting as I did with my first set suggests that maybe I should leave them well alone (or else be faced with trying to convince my retailer that the geometry got messed up by itself again :blush: ).

    Tom, the only thing which has sprung to mind is that it's something to do with Superwide settings. The webpage that gave me service menu codes (and the link's now dead, thank god I took a print out) suggests that most Philips TV have a different submenu for the geometry settings in Superwide mode. I think EWP is East-West Parallelogram, and that's one of the ones that should be duplicated in the SuperWide geometry menu according to that webpage.

    Now, my 28PW6006 doesn't have separate SuperWide settings in the service menu (I'm guessing your's doesn't either?). Maybe you have to adjust EWW & EWP when the TV is in normal 4:3 mode, change the TV to Superwide and then adjust them again? Haven't dared try it again to find out though. What do you think about it?

    Out of interest, what was it that you needed to adjust in the service menu? Is it the same minor problem as I've described in my new post (minor bending in in some of the screen corners)?
    Also, do you have any idea about the annotations I'm not sure about.

    Hurray! A fellow owner!

    John
     
  7. tom-m

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    hi John,

    The problem I had was to do with the borders on dvd's being smaller on the bottom of the screen than on the top by about 10mm. When I first entered the menu (bull in a china shop kinda way) I ended up with a picture that would have fitted perfectly on a tv made in about 1963. After about a week of constant twiddling I eventually got it the way I wanted it...

    Until I tried region 1 dvd's that is which refused to co-operate with all my other settings, border bigger at the top than bottom doh! I can live with it...honest..er..what happened to that list...

    Anyway about the i+ button,I found I started pressing this before switching off out of habit, thinking, (stupidly) that this would probably be the correct procedure for closing it down. I must admit though, it would be a pleasure to actually hear from someone who understands how to use it correctly. Anyway John, I still love the tv, great picture, sounds ok and dvd's look great.

    tom
     
  8. John Jennings

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    Yeah, it's a lovely telly. So glad I found it (saw it in a showroom whilst waiting for my PW6515 to arrive and rushed back to cancel my order!)

    Just a quick question though, are the edges of your image in 4:3 mode perfectly straight (ie more than a one or 2 mm off)? I can't remember how they were on my first set and am wondering if I'm wasting my time trying to get something I'll never obtain!

    John
     
  9. tom-m

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    No, I can honestly say it was'nt perefect when I bought it, and although it still is'nt quite as straight as I'd like, its geometry looks perfect after witnessing some of the expensive sony's and panasonic's on show at my local comet. I do notice however, and this seems common to all makes is that in 4:3 mode if the bottom half of the picture is dark and the top is really bright the picture will distort inwards near the top sides.

    The thing is, once you spot a geometry problem, no matter how good your picture looks to everyone else, somewhere, no matter how tiny it might be, your new 'trained eye' will no doubt spot it. If you look at some of the tv's at places like comet, even the expensive ones, there is some really bad geometry to be seen. Funny thing is, I did'nt notice any of it myself until I had the dvd border problem.

    tom
     
  10. tom-m

    tom-m
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    Hey John, sorry to pull this thread back again, but is there any chance that you could give me your default geometry settings.

    I know your tv is a different size but I've tried my local comet/currys but can't find a 6006 anywhere.

    It's mainly the vertical ones I'am after, but I'am not sure if the horizontal ones effect this, as they seem ok.

    Your help would be most appreciated.:)

    thanks
    tom
     
  11. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    No problem. I'm not sure that posting my settings will be that much use, but I'll post them anyway if it makes you happier;

    VERTICAL:
    VSL 29
    VAM 28
    VSC 20
    VSH 32
    VX 25
    SBL OFF
    H60 9
    V60 -2

    HORIZONTAL:
    HP 32
    HB 32
    HSH 39 (default was 34 but image was off centre to left, even further with RGB)
    EWW16
    EWP 23
    VCP 23
    LCP 25
    EWT 25

    As far as I know, each and every tube is slightly different so will need different geometry settings. I've had two 28PW6006s and the settings were completely different on my first one.

    Out of interest, what were your settings on the Tuner section for AGC, IFPLL and CL?

    Cheers,
    John
     
  12. tom-m

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    Thanks for that John, its the region 1 dvd border difference I'am trying to work out. It seems that ntsc material causes the geometry to move in opposite directions to everything else.:confused:

    The settings are:

    AGC 31
    IFLL 24
    CL 6

    Is there much variation?

    By the way, I noticed on the majoor/tv web site that you had made a contribution about the 6006. Perhaps we'll get more info on this model soon, I hope so.

    Anyway thanks again for your time
    tom
     
  13. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    I think that the geometry has to be set up differently for NTSC material. Maybe that involves entering the service menu whilst watching NTSC material? Just guessing...

    I don't watch many R1 DVDs so I've not noticed the problem. I bet I'm going to now that I know though (Captain Paranoia strikes again!)

    A quick idea though; has your DVD player got an option to output NTSC as PAL/PAL60 rather than NTSC? Maybe that'd fool the telly into using the PAL service menu settings?

    The saga continues... :D

    John

    PS The IFPLL & AGC (auto gain-control) values seem to vary quite a lot from telly to telly (thankyou Comet :) ). I've twiddled with them on my home set and can't see any difference, so I've left that on their default values. The CL values seem to be set to 5 on the majority (both of mine were on 5, as are most in the shops), but I've seen one set to 6 in a Comet. It seems to calibrate/limit the contrast range, ie a contrast value of 60 will show 'higher contrast' if CL is set to 6 rather than 5. Maybe it stands for Contrast Limiter...
     
  14. tom-m

    tom-m
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    The dvd player does have pal60, and I have tried altering the picture like you mentioned, but all I got was a ton of head scratching and the words "Why are you doing this to me you git?":confused: :mad:

    I'am sure I'll get there in the end...somehow...I won't let it bother me...............0625..

    cheers
    tom
     
  15. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Does PAL60 make it use PAL service menu settings then?

    Your "Why are you doing this to me you git?" quote has confused me though! When did this happen (using service menu in NTSC mode?) Who said this? The TV?! I'm confused... Probably cos it's monday morning..
     
  16. tom-m

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    Sorry for the confusion (just come off 12hr night shift). I've tried altering the picture whilst the dvd has been in pal/auto/ntsc mode with the same problem happening, border lower on ntsc dvd's than pal ones. So I'am not sure about your question.

    As for the git bit, that's me talking to myself in frustration at not being able to understand why the picture is vertically different between region1 and 2.

    Hope this makes a bit more sense

    tom
     
  17. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Have you considered the possibility that the actual R1 test DVD that you're using may have misalligned borders? I've got some where the image isn't centred properly...

    I'm just clutching at straws :confused:

    Go get some sleep ;)

    John
     
  18. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    I assume your screen size is 32in tom-m.

    Regarding finding one in a store.I did look at one in my local CO-OP.

    I think Philips might be having problems meeting demand,as I have been told.I will have been waiting over a month for my 32in a week on Friday,when delivery from Philips is due to Unbeatable.

    I hope it's worth the wait.
     
  19. tom-m

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    John, I owe you a huge thank you, those geometry settings that you posted have sorted my tv out, I'm eternally greatful.

    The only real differences were, vsl 22, vam 42, vsh 42. I could'nt believe the difference, region 1 and 2 are now exactly the same YEEEEHAAA!.

    Wayne, if you're after the 6006, the wait, in my opinion is truly worth it.

    thanks again
    tom :D :D
     
  20. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Glad to be of help.

    I finally became 'happy' with mine last night after having taken some DVDs to a friend's house (who has the same TV) and realising that the last few 'faults' I thought I could see were in fact normal operation for this set. I really am a paranoid twit. After that I went home and actually watched a film, rather than scrutinising the TV and the widescreen borders, geometry, contrast settings, brightness the whole time. I'd forgotten what that felt like :)

    John
     
  21. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    John Jennings quote:-

    "I went home and actually watched a film, rather than scrutinising the TV and the widescreen borders, geometry, contrast settings, brightness the whole time. I'd forgotten what that felt like".

    That's exactly what I'm looking forward to after a year of two naff tellies and four years of two previous great ones,including three years of a rented Philips 32in 6332,which I realise now was the best telly I've had overall.
     
  22. tom-m

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    (After that I went home and actually watched a film, rather than scrutinising the TV and the widescreen borders, geometry, contrast settings, brightness the whole time. I'd forgotten what that felt like)


    I couldn't have put it any better myself
    tom
     
  23. electrolyte

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    I too have a problem with my 28PW6006 - in 4:3 mode the picture is about 5-10 mm too low vertically and about the same to the left horizontally. I get this from DVDs, TV, Sky, PS2 and Video.

    I bought the TV from Comet two months ago and could get an engineer to fix it - what do you think would be the chance of them doing this? Would I be better off trying myself? I don't really know what I'm doing so may be there would be no difference....:)

    How do I access the service menu? I tried clicking the link in John's original message and it didn't work. Any more advice how to use the service menu would be appreciated!

    One other thing is that if I plug my Sky STB or PS2 via a SCART into, I think, AV1 the sound on the TV is mono. When plugged into the other SCART soccet the sound is stereo - is there a problem with one of my SCART sockets or is this common with all 6006s?

    Apart from that am very pleased with my 6006!
     
  24. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    The URL has changed. It's now at
    http://home.hccnet.nl/m.majoor/tv__service_mode_mg3_1_chassis.htm

    You'll need to alter the VSH & HSH settings to alter the centreing of your screen. It's not difficult to do, and you shouldn't be able to cause permanent damage as long as you remember to write down all default values first before changing anything! If you really don't have a clue then I'd not recommend doing it though.

    Just a quick point though, my set was off to the left when I first had it. I centred the screen, but now when watching R1 dvds the picture is off to the right! I guess the TV is set-up by default for NTSC images. Haven't tried to correct it as I don't watch too many R1 discs. Tom-m might be able to help you though.

    Regarding your mono problem. I've noticed you can set mono/stereo for each channel and it keeps whatever setting you set. Not sure if that's only for the tuner or whether it covers AV channels as well. Try going to AV1 and pressing the mono/stereo button on the remote (bottom right button IIRC, I'm at work so can't check now! I think it's labelled "I/II")

    Just out of interest, are your 4:3 screen edges perfectly straight? I mean perfectly straight! Mine bend inwards by about 1 mm or two at the top and bottom on both sides (more so on left). Haven't tried fiddling to correct it as it's not that worrying and not even noticeable to the average person I'd imagine. I might give it a go if it's attainable though!

    Cheers,
    John
     
  25. electrolyte

    electrolyte
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    Thanks John! I too am at work so will try this at home tonight.

    In 4:3 mode my vertical edges are perfectly straight except at the very top and bottom couple of mm where they bend out very, very slightly. As you say, most people won't notice (especially my wife!) but I can tell. Luckily now that I have Sky and most things I watch are in WS (BBC, E4 etc) don't notice it too often.
     
  26. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Mine came this afternoon!

    First impressons are excellent,especially the sharpness of RGB over my Sony and no nasties I can see,yet.

    I have an odd side effect with both my Sony 715/725 DVD players in RGB though.When I display the menus or a saved pic I have,the colours go orangey,on the menu mainly with a blue menu background and just with this picture.If I change it to plain black it's ok.Normal DVD playback seems ok.I can only think that it's a compatibility issue.

    Anyone got a Sony DVD to check for me please?

    SVHS/Video is superb.My Pace NTL box is fine as well.
     
  27. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Could possibly be the colour purity problem that crops up when you've had a static, high contrast image on screen for a while.
    When you see the problem turn the TV off (off, not standby) for 30 seconds, then turn it back on again. If the orangey problem has gone then it's the colour purity issue. This happens on loads of widescreen TVs (moreso Toshibas, but Philips suffer too).

    It can be controlled, to an extent, by keeping the contrast at a sensible level (mines at about 57).
     
  28. tom-m

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    Electrolyte, if you are going to alter the vertical shift, try checking dvd's that fill the screen (e.g: shrek) as this will show whether you have moved it too far up.

    As John pointed out, ntsc dvd's are off centre to the right, only really noticable if you have any 4:3 dvd's, e.g: snow-white (it's for my 2 kids), if this can be adjusted I've no idea how.

    The 4:3 picture bends slightly out at the top especially when the picture's bright, but every widescreen tv that I've seen tends to have the same problem.

    The one thing I have noticed though, is that you can adjust the colour on AV1 when your dvd is set to RGB mode. Now, I had an hitachi 4:3 tv that had a seperate channel for RGB, where you couldn't adjust the colour setting, so does this mean the RGB scart isn't pure RGB?, not a problem, just wondering.

    cheers to all
    tom-m
     
  29. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Ooh, mine bend in a little, but straighten up when it gets bright. Any idea which of the vertical settings adjust this?

    Some TVs let you alter RGB colour values, others don't. Simple as that! They're all proper RGB though :)
     
  30. Carrie

    Carrie
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    My 28PW6006 came yesterday. I hooked it up using Ext1 with my Qed Sqart to my Sony 725 DVD player. In RGB mode I'm getting a pale strip from around the centre of the screen radiating all the way to the right hand edge of the screen. It's not very noticeable in daylight, but dim the lights a little and it's like a beacon. If I set the DVD player to SVideo through Ext2 I don't have this problem (this is using the same picture settings etc).

    Here's a picture I took of what I'm talking about. It looks worse in person then I managed to get with my digital camera. I started noticing it first with my Buffy TVS DVDs, probably because they are usually very dark.

    What do you reckon guys? Replacement time? My Sony DVD player did not do this with my Sony 21" TV or my 32 FQ75. I've also tried an Ixos scart cable to make sure it wasn't that.
     

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