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Anyone have instability with catalyst 2.2?

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by buns, Dec 29, 2002.

  1. buns

    buns
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    I was having some troubles with random reboots a while back, supposedly due to a drawing error by my radeon 7500 running catalyst 2.2 drivers..... opinion at the time was its a heat thing, but i have sorted the heat and am having the same issue. Now the difference tonight is that i actually saw the reboot happen for the first time.... i tried to change powerstrip res, and it froze and rebooted. Upon coming up again, i got the usual error messages except this time one more, which told me I must report the problem to microsoft. So, how do i do that given the machine is internet DISconnected.... is there somewhere i email it to?

    Now my only thought as to what the problem is is now the drivers..... everything else is fine. Did anyone else have problems with the 2.2? If so, did a move to the 2.3's help?

    thanks

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  2. Tim Cooper

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    Hi Ad,
    I never used the the 2.2 drivers only the 2.3, & without any problems i,ve since upgraded to directx 9 & the 2.5 drivers again without any problems.
    Sorry if you already done this but:
    Did you use the ATI cleanup instructions when you installed the 2.2 drivers? if you need the instructions i'll repost here.
    Cheers.
    Tim.
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff
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    I have tried all the Catalyst drivers up to 3.0, they are all good. What PSU do you have Buns?
     
  4. MonkeyDonkey

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    Microsofts problem reporting is a tool to help them, it allows them to see any problems lots of people are experiencing so don't worry about that.

    What other hardware do you have in there?
    I'm running Catalyst 2.3 at the mo (on a 7500) but I did have a perfectly stable earlier version on, probably 2.2.

    Try running Motherboard Monitor (just do a search on google) it should let you see if you have any heat or power problems.

    Follow ATI's instructions and install the latest version of catalysts.
    If your systems unstable its not likely to get much worse, and ATI have been very good with drivers lately so any problems should be fixed.
     
  5. buns

    buns
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    Im running the 2.2 with a radeon 7500..... psu is a big antec true power 550 so i dont see that as a problem.

    I am, well have been attempting to get the 2.5 drivers but bt has not been letting me do it....... so im off to try it again. Where do i get directx 9 update?

    I havent used ati clean up unstructions, in fact ive never heard of them! I'll give the 2.5's a go and if not sorted start fiddling with that sort of thing.

    Im fairly sure heat isnt the problem..... the machine gets warm due to its proximity to power amp when watching a film, but most of the time it crashes when it would be at its coolest. Add to that that windows always informs me it is the same drawing error from the radeon....... so i basically have to assume its the cause.

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  6. buns

    buns
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    Ok i have the 2.5 driver going..... but now my old 800x450 resolution isnt working at all well! So having gone to h3d program, it now wont give me the correct aspect ratio so im back to dscaler again!

    I also loaded that mobo monitor affair..... what temps should i ideally look for? The third temp is somehow managing to read -30 odds..... which is interesting!

    Back to the old error message....... it comes up every time i reboot, i presume it would go away once i send the report, but i cant send the report because im not connected! So how do i get rid of it?

    thanks

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  7. Tim Cooper

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    Buns,

    Do this to disable error reporting:

    Click Start, and then click Run.
    Type msconfig to open the System Configuration Utility.
    Click the Services tab.
    Clear the Error Reporting Service check box, and then click OK.
    Hit Restart to reboot your system.

    Do this to clean your computer/registry of old ATI stuff, please follow it to the letter, if the mentioned registry settings are not where they are supposed to be don't worry move onto the next on the list:

    1. Go into the Control Panel and under the ADD/REMOVE SOFTWARE icon uninstall the ATI MultiMedia software and/or the ATI DVD software.

    2. Uninstall the ATI drivers also found in the Add/Remove section. Once removed, it will prompt you to reboot....do so.

    3. When returning to windows, the NEW HARDWARE FOUND wizard will come up and will tell you that it has found a new VGA card and will prompt you for drivers. Hit CANCEL!

    4. Now, go to START - SEARCH - FOR FILES OR FOLDERS and do a search for all files and folders using the filename ati*.*
    This search will normally give you 3 to 4 files found in your c:/windows directory and subdirectories (including the Windows/System directory). Select these files and erase them. Now go to your Recycle Bin and Empty your bin.

    5. Next...time to go to your Registry. Go to START -- RUN -- regedit

    Here go to key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE -- SYSTEM -- ControlSet001 -- Control -- Video . Here there should be 4 entries. 3 of them are default Windows XP entries and the 4th one is put in by the ATI drivers. Expand each one by one until you see ATI entries. Once found, erase the entire key.

    Now repeat the same step above for the ControlSet002 key and the CurrentControlSet Key. Normally, whenever you erase a key in the ControlSet001, XP automatically deletes it in the CurrentControlSet section too. So if the ATI key is not found in the CurrentControlSet section, don't worry about it.
    Once all keys are deleted, proceed to the next step.

    6. While still in the registry, go to the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE -- SOFTWARE section. Here you should find an ATI Technologies key. Select it and delete it. In that same section, look for an Installed Options key. Expand it and there you should find another ATI Technologies key. Select it and erase it.

    7. Still in the registry, go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER -- Software and there you should find another ATI technologies key. Select it and erase it. Once all this is done, close the registry. the registry is now clean.

    8. Close all windows and reboot.

    9. When in windows after the reboot the NEW HARDWARE FOUND WIZARD will pop up again. Cancel that. Now find the new ATI drivers that you have downloaded and extracted and run the SETUP file. Once complete, reboot and you are done. You may want to reinstall your ATI MMC software and DVD software if you use them. DONE!


    For all those who do not like going into the registry and rather have an easy to use program to do it for you, you can grab a nifty tool called "RegCleaner" here and it will do it for you without getting your hands dirty in the registry. Follow steps 1 through 4 as stated above, then run RegCleaner to do the rest. Once completed, follow steps 8 and 9 and you are DONE!

    At least you can dis-count then any driver issues.
    Cheers
    Tim
     
  8. buns

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    Thanks Tim,

    I cant try it for a couple of days because there is some very important stuff im doing and cant afford to make things worse!

    For note, the 2.5 divers still managed to crash..... what temp should i look for on the machine?

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  9. Tim Cooper

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    Ad,
    I wrote a great f***ing long reply & then pressed the wrong button & lost it:mad: so here's the edited version:
    Run what you normally run with the casing off of the computer to see if it runs smoothly with no reboots, if it does, put it under load, Sisoft Sandra has an exercise program which will max the CPU. Does it still randomly reboot?
    Temp targets:
    Intel<50deg c full load
    AMD<60deg c full load
    8-10 deg lower at idle.
    These are my own personal targets, Intels/AMD's targets are higher.
    If the rebooting your experiencing is heat related you've prolly' max'd out the default bios temps (if you have monitoring in your bios), if it does it again quickly flick into the bios & check the temps or install a motherboard monitoring program to find out how high the temp is.
    If it turns out that your temps are ok, then i'd look at the memory; is it getting overly hot? if it is fit a memory heatsink.
    Next, as Jeff has mentioned, the power supply; is it a branded supply of a good quality i.e Enermax/Antec etc.
    We don't know what your spec is post it here, mobo, chip, memory, PSU, OS, blah blah.
    Also don't know how much you know about computers so if my answers seem patronising i apologise;)
    Happy New fingy
    Tim
     
  10. buns

    buns
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    Thanks Tim,

    My computer knowledge is still relatively basic so im not taking you patronisingly! :D

    The temps you mention..... using that motherboard monitor program....... the temps i am getting are much lower...... the hottest I have seen any of the readings is still below 50...... but I can vouch for a fact that the casing is alot hotter than most other pcs i have built (due to its location i presume.....)

    The psu is an antec true power 550 so i dont imagine its the problem, though it does blow some faily hot air into the pc, which incidentall goes straight over the cpu.

    Spec....... asus tuscl2, 256Mb crucial pc133 cas2, radeon 7500 (dabs own), H3D..... big thermaltake cpu cooler and a dign case.

    I havent had any reboots in the last day which is good, i tried taking the case cover off and nothing went wrong in that time, but it would really need off for a long time to check.

    The fact that i get the radeon 'drawing error' so frequently just has me suspicious. Literaly, everything looks fine, then a freeze and an auto reboot.

    This post is becoming very fragmented..... When i think, i do load the cpu with dscaler, but I have never once had a crash while it was runing.

    Im off to check by bios temp settings, it seems like a good place, beyond that....... radeon is next suspect!

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  11. Tim Cooper

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    The ATX spec's do indeed state that the PSU fan(s) do suck IN air, but most psu manufacturers (in my experience) have ignored that part of the spec & have the PSU fan(s) blowing out & a case fan drawing fresh (cool) air in. Are you sure that the Antec fan(s) are sucking in because if they are, your case & your kit is gonna get plenty hot from the PSU internals.Turn the fans around you should see the temp come down quite a bit (hopefully) means taking your PSU apart though.
    Aluminium cases do get warmer than their steel counterparts due to the heatsink effect.
    Regarding Dab's own make Radeon, what drivers are you using? built by or powered by? if it is the latter i would suspect these drivers.There is a workaround to get a generic card running on built by drivers i'll see if i can dig it out.
    Are you going to clean install your drivers soon? cos we want to discount software if we can to pinpoint your troubles.
    Cheers.
    Tim.
     
  12. buns

    buns
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    I'll have to check, but i seem to recall remebering that both the psu fans blew out....... could be wrong though.

    By clean install does that involve fully deleting the old ones? I have done driver updates and im currently on the 2.5's as gained from ati site under powered by..... since that is what i have and hadnt bothered doing the flashing of the bios trick.

    I had the teperatures sitting at and about 30C on idle, with dscaler maxing out the cpu, its only risen by 1 or 2 degrees so that certainly seems ok heat wise.......

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  13. Tim Cooper

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    Ad,
    I reckon we can discount overheating now although i would check those psu fans & turn them round if nessc'
    Clean install as per the instructions further up the thread this is the preferred method ATI's uninstaller is crap this is why people have so much grief with ATI drivers.
    You don't have to flash your graphics card's bios, what you do now is edit an inf file, instructions as follows:
    ==============================================
    Flashing a non-ATI Radeon card with an ATI BIOS seems pretty radical, and unnecessarily so. The only difference that I can see in the drivers is that the ATI-released official drivers reference PCI subvendor ID: ATI uses theirs, and other manufacturers use theirs.

    If you take an ATI-released official Radeon driver and remove all reference to PCI subsystem and subvendor ID from the driver inf file, they will install properly with non-ATI Radeon cards.

    Example: download and install the latest 9031 Win9x/Me drivers for the 7500, and then cancel Setup. Go to the "ATIdrive" folder and open the atii9xag.inf file in Notepad. Scroll down to the [Mfg] section and you'll find entries like so:

    "RADEON 7500" = RV200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5157&SUBSYS_013A1002

    Just change it to:

    "RADEON 7500" = RV200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5157

    This effectively removes the driver dependency on a "Built by ATI" card.

    Of course, its a nuisance having to edit an inf file each time there's a driver update, but the procedure is simple enough: you're just deleting some text, not adding or changing anything. And unlike with a BIOS flash, if you screw up, no harm's been done...
    ==============================================

    Do the clean install do the inf mod load up the latest ATI catalyst 2.5 built by drivers & if the comp still randomly reboots, remove said card & drop kick with a sturdy pair of boots:D & buy a built by 9000 or 9500.
    Cheers.
    Tim
     
  14. buns

    buns
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    Thanks Tim! I'll get trying asap!

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    ps. any idea is a printer will come with a cartridge or is that an optional extra?
     
  15. buns

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    I have been struggling along because my lab report was due and i couldnt afford to screw it up more! So, i sat down to watch a film this evening.... i started with dscaler and it crashed. Tried again, so it crashed again. Then, tried with h3d, guess what? It crashed a further 3 times before i finished watching! :eek:

    Not only was it crashing, but it was failing to restart at times. Sometimes it tried and then froze, sometimes into bios. Then, later, it decided it was going to restart in a funny way! I got it initialising with powerstrip at 94hz..... i couldnt even get it to change back without creating a new res.

    Sooooo....... seeing as the report went in today, and i was at the point of burning the bu**er...... i finally got round to cleaning up and getting the catalyst 3.0 in there. So apart from repeated freezes, failures to restart, random error messages, it looks to be running....albeit in some funny way that the projector is getting an image shifted in some weird and wonderful way.... but i guess thats just going to need powerstrip playing.

    Something still definitely not resolved.... i cant watch anything on the monitor. I go into dscaler or h3d, i can see all the menus but no image whatsoever. The projector gets the image..... somehow the moitor doest..... i think im going to ask this one over at immersive.

    So for now, im going to go and leave the annoying thing overnight with dscaler at it, and hope it survives! Personally, i feel it wont. I have no faith and i firmly beleive that windows itself is just being typically microsoft!

    And to add a bit more..... i have built mahines before, cheap, with the crap components at cheapest prices. Software being crappy ME in all instances. As much trouble as they have been with my siblings attacking it with all sorts of nonsense, i have never had any problems like with my purpose built, carefully chosen, regularly maintained, hcpc! :mad:

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  16. apul

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    my addition-
    just did a clean install and installed 2.5cat drivers for my 7500, everything works except openGL which is what i play nealy all my games in.
    but i have no time at the moment to try other drivers, but hope when the time comes they will work!
     
  17. buns

    buns
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    Unfortunately, this is not a good morning! :mad: I got up to find the machine has crashed, and then it has frozen mid way through a reboot. Then it has on a number of occasions failed to restart on pushing power ons and resets, half the time it just sits with no hd led and does nothing, and the other half it flashes and leaves the led on and nothing happens.

    Surely this can no longer be symptom of any driver issues? In fact, surely this is bigger than even being a windows issue? Im tempted to start fresh, but have never done so. How do I manage to clean out the hard drive totally to a virgin condition for a clean install? How do i then activate XP......MS have previously argued about it because it has already been installed. Most importantly, is that going to work!?

    I also have a feeling that my dign case isnt helping..... the reaction when i press the power or reset buttons makes me wonder if they are not half the time stuck!

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  18. Tim Cooper

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    Sounds like a hardware issue now......these random crashes are more prevelant...this could turn out to be a drawn out process of elimination.....hope you got another machine &/or spares to test with.
    Tim.
     
  19. buns

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    Had that horrible feeling! Unfortunately time and money are not available. Im going to do a full clean up, get it all apart and the hard drive cleaned (how do i do that?) and hope it all loads up ok. Beyond that, It will be forsale and i will have the iscan or its likes before you can blink!

    Thanks

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  20. Tim Cooper

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    Ad,
    What i would do first is check that the hdd has no errors or bad sectors on it,go to your hdd's manufactureres site & download their hdd drive fitness proggy,download it & install on your machine, it will ask you to make a boot disk, on the disk will be a testing program to check out the hdd in MS-DOS mode, if it finds errors your going to have to do a low level format, backup any data you require first then low level format the HDD, re-run the diagnostics if still finds errors it's f00ked, if it reports ok i'd strip the machine completely of all but the graphics card & 1 stick of memory, re-load XP (use the default drivers for the graphics) & leave it on "soak" for a few hours or pref on for 24 hours, if you get no issues your mobo, cpu, memory & graphics are ok, refit any other memory that you have leave for a few hours, load up the most stable ATI graphics drivers (cat 2.5 ok for me) set a restore point, I'd then introduce the soundcard with it's latest stable drivers (audiophile beta 5.10.00.0031) set restore point, again leave for a few hours at least.Load your H3D with it's latest drivers, set restore, leave to soak.If all is well you can start loading your app's one by one setting restore points as you go hopefully all will go well.
    I appreciate that this seems a drawn out affair but don't be tempted to take shortcut's.
    HTH.
    Tim.
     
  21. buns

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    Thanks Tim. The situation got so bad earlier that i barely could get the thing running long enough to do anything! So..... i just formatted it all..... so it is currently sitting with nothing going on other than XP..... i'll get to that little proggy now and see what i get prior to loading everything up again.

    Out of interest....... I loaded on the catcalyst built by driver to this new install, but i hadnt done any of the registry messing about.... I havent had any problems or error messages though. Does his mean it is ok?

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  22. Rob.Screene

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    Hi Buns,
    I'm sure you'll crack this...

    Make a note of your pci add-in cards and which slots you have them in.

    Remove and reseat each card and your system memory.

    Ensure your cpu heatsink and fan are secure and the fan it running.

    regards,
    Rob.
     
  23. Tim Cooper

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    Ad,
    To clarify, you don't have to do a "clean install" ATI drivers on first install, problems arise when newer drivers are put on over the old drivers, the problem being that the supposed ATI UNINSTALL program left fragments of the old drivers on the machine corrupting the newer drivers whence the machine/registry cleanup.
    You must check that the HDD is free from errors you'll be saving yourself a whole load grief if you check it out.
    As Rob has mentioned make a note of what card goes where & that your hardware is secure etc etc (good points Rob:) ).
    Hopefully we can get through this for ya m8ty;)
    Tim
     
  24. buns

    buns
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    Rob and Tim,

    I actually have it quite easy, i only have one pci card and one stick or ram. I havent tried with the memory, but playing with the card can change things a bit. For the life of me i couldnt get XP to recognise new hardware in 2 of the slots....strangely it recognised it but wouldnt work in another! So im starting to get the hang of it a bit better now!

    Hardware seems intact for me now, nothing wrong on the temperatures front at least. Everything that should be recognised now is, nothing hanging without being tied up!

    So....... I had my fresh install and had windows tools checking everything..... i tried seagate but couldnt get the little disc checker affair, it wasnt even on their included cd, so i'm going to have to look more carefully tomorrow. I had a few unexplained freezes as i was setting up. And a couple of shut downs. Im half hoping they are a result of my trying to get a whole load of new things going at the same time and XP getting confused. But, promisingly, i sat and calibrated h3d and then watched a film without anything going wrong. So certainly we are back ahead of the problem!

    Plan now...... give it a challenge and run dscaler over night and see what happens! I'll let you know the outcome in the morn!

    Thanks!

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  25. buns

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    Kepp them crossed, but everything is still going ok! :D

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  26. buns

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    Hi again guys....... just a pre emptive warning! As of tuesday, exams are over so i'm going to be back on the pc war path! Clearly the work so far has not solved the problem. I have witnessed a number of crashes, albeit less than before my clean install and this morning i find myself at a start up type screen where im told that windows cant start because a system32/config (or something like it) has become corrupt or lost..... jees this whole thing is irritating!

    If you had to say hardware as a problem, what would be your first guess? Mobo: asus tuscl2, ram: crucial pc133 256megs, psu: antec true power 550, video: radeon 7500 (dabs own), vid capture: Holo3d. No sound or anthing else beyond a cd rom drive....

    My guess has to be the hard drive despite not being able to find anything wrong with it, does that seem reasonable?

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    to add a bit more, windows couldnt fix the file in question so i've had to re install, but even then, things are not rosey..... the installation decided to trip up and wouldnt install 3 files, so i dont know even if this new install will work.

    and back for another little note, as xp is setting itself up, i just got an error message say that the software i am installing for my hardware for 'Battery' has not passed windows xp logo testing....... what on earth does that mean? The only software being installed is XP, how can it not see one of its own components as XP compatible?! And what is battery!? The only battery i know of is that of the mobo.....

    and now........ a fatal error and XP wont install! Im severely confused with all this...... this machine has had nothing in the way of virus, contaminants, misuse or anything other than a lot of time, so how come it is by far the worst pc i have built yet?

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  27. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Ad,

    Just before you said that you thought the software reinstall had fixed it I was going to suggest that the motherboard might be at fault. Unfortunately the only was of knowing for certain is to replace it and see, that's if you can find another TUSL2 motherboard. Either that and bite the bullet and go for a new P4 setup.

    Jeff
     
  28. buns

    buns
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    I cant even get a start up now! I tired to do another fresh install, but this time i didnt even get as far..... the i got to 13% files copied before i had refusals to copy files from the cd. So now i've tried to do it with ME instead, but having done so, or tried to do so, i cant get anything...... i simply get to the computer telling me to remove any media from the drives about 10 seconds after power up. It says this despite there not being anything in the drives........


    Jeff,

    Why would the mobo be screwing me about? its only been in there about 6 months, surely a mobo shouldnt fail that quickly!? Would it even still be under warranty?

    thanks

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  29. buns

    buns
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    I dont suppose you have any ideas where to find a tuscl2? Ive tried all my usual suppliers but none seem to carry it anymore.


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  30. Jeff

    Jeff
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