Anyone Bi-amping using AVR300? Sound?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by josephvman, Mar 9, 2006.

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  1. josephvman

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    I was wondering if anyone was bi-amping their main fronts using when running a 5-channel system, as outlined in the AVR300 manual, and how they would characterize the difference in the sound as compared to just running two channels into the mains. I've had my AVR300 for about a month, but I've only been running it in 2-channel mode so far. Today I had my Panasonic HD plasma wall-mounted, and the room wired for HT, including a double-run for the fronts for bi-amping. My system consists of Kef iQ9's in front, iQ6C center, and iQ1 rears, with a DV79 and Tara Labs cables. I've yet to hear the AVR300 in 5-channel mode, so I'm itching to get home tonight and start playng with it!
     
  2. Hifi addict

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    and..... any update?
    I know what I like about bi-amping :thumbsup:
     
  3. Technics

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    I'm Bi-Amping since the first week because for me the difference was quite impressive!! I'm using the AVR 300 together with the DV 79 and the speakers are Dali Evidence 470 and everything connected to a Pioneer plasma!! It looks and sounds amazing!:smashin:
     
  4. Francois1968

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    There is a huge improvement when bi-amping the frontspeakers (Paradigm reference studio 60). Just try it and you'll hear how great the AVR300 can sound. I have given up the aspiration of buying an integrated amp since I'm bi-amping the AVR300.:D
     
  5. Hoggers

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    Hi Joseph... :hiya:

    I am runnning almost the same set up as you (except iQ3's instead of the 1's) and have the fronts bi-amped with a P90.

    I love the sound and find the Kefs to be than up to the Job.

    Am not sure if you are running a sub but if you are I have all my speakers set to small with the crossover at 80hz and it sounds pretty damn good. :thumbsup:

    Anyway, happy listening :)

    Cheers,

    Alastair
     
  6. josephvman

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    The good news is they installed my plasma on the wall yesterday, and it was still on the wall when I got home from the office :)

    I got everything wired up, including bi-amping the fronts. I also had my dealer swap my Kef iQ9's from walnut finish to "Dark Apple", so the speakers were not yet broken-in, and based on my experience with the first pair, they're quite lean-sounding out of the box, so I expect further improvements as they get some hours on them. I'm not sure what I expected, but it seemed to be an obvious improvement in every area. The top end seemed to open up a bit, the bottom end was "faster" and more detailed, and the sound just seemed a bit more lively and musical all the way around. The iQ9's are fairly sensitive, but I think they must present a pretty challenging load for an amp, as driven with two channels on challenging material at moderate to high levels. I like to demo Wilco's "A Ghost is Born", as there's a lot of dynamics and layered details and guitar distortion that is easily smeared and muddied. Bi-amped, things just became a bit more focused all the way around. Other than it being past midnight at this point, and my room a nightmare of empty boxes and cable insulation, my charmed life appeared to have gotten even better :)

    Then, the first sign of trouble! The AVR300 shuts off! The optimistic side of me was saying that maybe Guido the Italian Greyhound (which is like having a 15lb. deer that has been drinking Red Bull ALL DAY in your house) might have just stepped on the remote. Reboot, and listen a bit more, no problema. I played around with the various digital modes on some DVD's and HD Cable channels, as this was also my first experience with 5 channels, and everything is cool. Then, I notice an incredible amount of background hiss on quiet scenes, a constant hiss, regardless of volume, or source (analog or digital). It went away as soon as the volume went from -1 db to 0, with a very slight "pop", but was at a constant volume from -1 all the way up. Now I'm tired, and extremely irritated. My system is plugged into a Furman Sound (www.furmansound.com) line condition, which in turn goes into a PS Audio audiophile wall outlet, and everything was perfect for awhile, so I'm confident it's not an issue with the power end of it. I even plug in an electric drill to the Furman, just to see if it creates more noise, and it doesn't, so I'm confident that my power is clean and well-grounded. Still, I re-route power cables, separate the DV79 from the AVR300, and double-check all of my connections. Everything seems okay. I decided to disable the bi-amp on the fronts using channels 6 & 7, to see if that had anything to do with it, but the hiss went unchanged. Then, I pushed the DVD source on the AVR300, and it was lights out on the unit, a pop, and shut down. Now I'm off the hook! It's 2am, I have to get up at 6am, and I'm seriously considering another bottle of wine at this point. I shut off the entire system, and check my connections, again. I cautiously turn everything back on, and it all seems to be working correctly, and the hiss is gone! I'm not sure what to think at this point. The AVR300 is just a month or so old, and I'm afraid it's got a major issue. I checked the software version on the AVR300, and if I recall correctly (it was late!), it's 3.26. I've read various threads here about the AVR300's shutting down, but I haven't seen any consensus on the cause. I'm getting ready to call my dealer to see what he suggests. Even if the AVR300 seems to be working okay, I'm confident that none of this is normal and points to an underlying issue, and in all likelyhood it's not giving the performance it's capable off, even when it's ostensibly functioning.
     
  7. WMc

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    I am using my AVR300 to biamp Polk SDA SRS 3.1TL's for the front and have Monitor 7's for side sourrounds. Speakers are is set to large, no center channel, no sub. I have Polk CS350-LS speakers available for the center channel I am not using because the imaging is better without it. This is the most musical amplifier I have tried. It sounds better than biamping with the NAD C372 intergraded amp and NAD C272 power amp. The Arcam has more clarity and detail than anything I have tried.

    I also get a very slight pop just when the volume reaches 0db. Above 1 db volume I hear no hiss at all coming out of the tweeters. If the tuner is quiet then the problem could be with your sources or interconnects. You need to have them look at it if you are hearing this noise on all sources.
     
  8. brokenhat

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    I am biamping my AVR300 since yesterday and am very impressed with the results. Any AVR300 users out there not taking advantage of this better buy some more speaker wire now and get to it. :)
     
  9. josephvman

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    I agree completely. My AVR300 seems to be operating correctly, but I called my dealer regarding it shutting down, and they are sending a replacement. Excellent service!
     
  10. MovieMan65

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    I had the same problem with my AVR300 after using it for around 13 months. It shutdown without any sign of strain. Happened on a few occasions and I finally gave up and sent it to the Dealer for repair. It took 6 weeks to get it back :)mad: )and I was told it was a faulty relay or something??? :confused:

    Anyway, the other problems it had was crackling when the volume was increased (even when nothing was playing) and problematic video processing.
     
  11. ramallo

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    Hello,

    I get very good results with the AVR300 biamping a Spendor's SP1/2

    Cheers
     
  12. martinpeter

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    Bi amping Monitor Audio RS6s and delighted.
     
  13. bb34

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    how bad is it to bi-amp my speakers using diff speaker wire?
     
  14. en6jwrs2

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    Hello,

    I thought I would add to this post as last night I spent a few hours rewiring my home cinema kit. Part of this process involved bi-amping my B&W603s3 from my Arcam AVR300. The results are unbelievable.

    I am so disappointed I did not do this when I first purchased the amp some 15 months ago. The difference in quality is amazing. For what is essentially a free upgrade (just the cost of another run of speaker wire) it puts into perspective my desperation to buy a £1000 Arcam CD player. Lesson learnt:"always ensure you are getting the best from your current kit before spending more money"

    bb34: I believe (although I am no expert) that it is relatively important to use the same brand of wire - however I am sure that it is more important to fix them at the same length (HF & LF)
     
  15. Silverstrand

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    I am biamping B&W 604s3 with a AVR250, and its perfectly up to the job.
     
  16. hedrick@rutgers

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    As long as the wire is heavy enough that it doesn't introduce any losses or other effects, I can't imagine what difference it would make to use different brands of wire.
     
  17. paulst10

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    hi, i am using an avr300 to bi-amp my b&w 704s and the sound is stunning!... if youre not using the bi-amp function... you are really missing out on the 300s stereo/direct perfomance :lesson:
     
  18. Cocksure

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    surely though the resistance of the two different cables would be different, making the signal speed to be slightly out between the two cables causing the bass/tredble to be slightly behind/infront of each other? Or am i talking rot here? :rolleyes:
     
  19. hedrick@rutgers

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    Well, there will be some difference. Not in speed. The speed at which electrical signals propagate is (more or less) the speed of light. The more serious question is whether there would be differences in loss, which might cause the balance between treble and bass to be shifted. At these frequencies that's due to resistance. As long as the cables are the same gauge the difference shouldn't be audible. And even if they aren't, as long as they are "large enough", the loss shouldn't be enough to matter.
     
  20. kgulls

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    An interesting thread and one which has me tempted to try out bi-amping my system;Avr300 & Dv79 feeding Proac Hexa speakers.
    Now,because my speakers are set to small + sub I realise I can't go down the stereo direct route.I do enjoy the experience of listening to cds in Neo 6 Music mode,however,and wonder whether the benefits of bi-amping speakers is lessened by using DSP effects as opposed to a direct stereo image.
    Similarly does the effect of bi-amping the speakers produce any noticeable benefit when watching film?
    The craziest part of all this is that I can get an incredibly intense listening experience through a decent set of headphones and dedicated amp thereby cutting out the speakers completely.Its just that the Arcam equipment is such an enjoyable piece of kit I would hate to be missing out on the chance to get an even better sound.
     
  21. josephvman

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    I think that bi-amping results in major benefits, regardless of mode or source. By bi-amping, you're doubling the power to your main speakers, resulting in much better overall dynamics. If the AVR300 has a weakness, I think it can sound compressed when asked to handle demanding material at higher volumes, particularly with certain speakers. In fairness, you can probably say that about most any receiver, and the AVR300 is superior to most in that respect. It really does make a night and day difference, at least in my system.
     
  22. Cocksure

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    Why do you say that? With the DV79 you can set it up in the players menu so as stereo sources are out putted via the left/right analog conectors as well as the sub out put at the same time. It will even allow you to set the cross over point if like yourself you have small speakers. You just need to make sure that you use the DVDA inputs instead of the CD ones.
     
  23. kgulls

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    Thanks for the reply.I must confess I've never made use of the analogue side of the Dv79,only the digital output.Actually thats not quite true as I have my Musical Fidelity headphone amp connected to the stereo outputs on the dvd player.
    Following on from your comments,can I deduce that a further benefit would be gained from using analogue connections.Its already a spaghetti soup of wires at the rear of my kit.I can see another analogue v digital debate coming.;)
     
  24. kgulls

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    Ah!Now there I think you have probably given a good reason for trying this out;compression.
    I have noticed that music played at higher volumes can sound muddied and part of this must be down to how the receiver is transmitting the information to speakers.
    So given that the general consensus is that bi-amping with the av300 produces genuine improvement in sound what sort of music would be a good before and after test.:)
     
  25. Cocksure

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    heck yes! The improvement is sound quality is def worth the extra cables, and (just to defend myself from the analogue v digital debate :hiya: ) if for no other reason than it allows you to use the direct mode on the amp.
     
  26. josephvman

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    How would you configure this if you're taking the subwoofer output from the AVR300, not the DV79? I've got my DV79 running analog outputs into the CD input on the AVR300, with only the coax digital output runnining into the AVR300. The downside to my setup is that I can only listen to my mains (without sub) when listening to CD input on the AVR300 (analog) in the Direct mode. I thought I had started to make sense of my setup, but obviously not! Things were so much easier before, Meridian CD, Meridian speakers...2-channels, end of story!
     
  27. josephvman

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    The analog outputs are so much more musical in my system when run in the CD Direct mode of the AVR300. The soundstage has much more definition and "air" around voices and instruments, and transients are much more natural.
     
  28. Cocksure

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    Now were would be the fun in that! :rotfl:

    Its really easy to do you will be pleased to here, all you have to do is go into the setup menu of the DV79 (no 4, Speakers) and first of all make sure that were it says subwoofer you have selected present. The stereo+sub option below it will then become avabile and you just need to choice crossover or duplictae of the low freq depending on your speakers. You can set the crossover point also in the menu, also on the next page (trims) you can reduce the volume of the sub for purely stereo play back so as your bass setup for home cinema use can stay as it is.

    Now all you need to do is run an analog cable from the left, right, and sub out on the back of the DV79 to the DVD-A inputs (instead of the CD) on the back of your amp, and select DVD-A on the amp when you want to listen to cd's. This way the sub signal gets past on to your sub as well as your front speakers with no processing being done by the amp.
     
  29. T123VOR

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    Carrying on from this...

    I need advice on the same (I think?) I have the DV88plus and AVR250. Have i got it right with analogue coax (i have VDH D 102 MK III) from the audio L/R out of the DV88 into (where would be the best inputs on the amp?) AS WELL AS digital out (digital coax unbought yet!) for movie sound from DV88 to amp (again best inputs?)

    At the mo' i'm running the DV88 monitor straight into the (only) component connection on my plasma. What loss can i expect if i go via the amp using HQ component cabling ( i'm using Belken at the moment)in and out?
    It would be alot easier if i could cable everything into the amp and connect that via comp cable into the plasma as the only input. Rather than having the DVD in comp and when i hook up my xbox and sky they, through the amp, would have to go in via S-Video or composite or scart (which i'd rather avoid). Any idea there guys?

    I haven't bought any speakers yet! I have to consider my girlfriend, wallmounting and size here. I quite drawn to the MA radius series? they have a relatively good write up. With MA RS5 silvers up front. Any obvious problems with that set-up. I going 6.1 I think.

    Lastly (Sorry!!!)
    Ive got my date for Sky HD booked, so thinking ahead, do we know what the outputs on the new box are to be?

    I've come from my arcam stereo setup and am new to AV so thanks in advance to all who can help

    Trevor
     
  30. Alec

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    Has anyone else tried Lizard's suggestion of using the dvd-a input on the avr300 and the dv79 outputting fr fl and sub. I can't get it to work and have tried most settings. Surely this will only work with cd material which has been coded with 5 channels?. Simply setting the dv79 to large+sub does not generate a signal down the dv79 sub output.
    Anyone had any luck with this setup and can tell me what I'm doing wrong before I simple wire my sub into the fr fl pre-out for stereo direct music.
    Alec
     

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