Anybody with a SIM2 C3X 10880?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Isco 3, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    I was wondering if anybody here has the new Sim2 C3X 1080.
    People don't seem to buy 3-chip DLP's, which I still think their Ansi contrast gives them a superior image to all the rest!

    Anybody?:rolleyes:
     
  2. mwomwell

    mwomwell
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    If only I had a spare £20k to spend!!
     
  3. Penfold73

    Penfold73
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    I think a lot more people would buy them if they weren't so expensive.
     
  4. Avi

    Avi
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    For the £20k+ price I guess we should expect a very special image. :)

    There are owner reports over on AVS. Generally good but there appears to be some side effects of using the larger 1080 chips in the small case. Not as bright as the C3X 720 and no one appears to have been able to achieve/measure the claimed spec on/off contrast.

    AVI
     
  5. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    I have been following the avs threads, where have you seen these reviews?
    I want to know more about these nasty side effects...:rolleyes:
    Could you direct me to the correct thread, please?
     
  6. RTFM

    RTFM
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    I had a C3X 1080 here recently before my customer picked it up.
    It was brighter than my C3X 720 and the black level was far better. Black bars on a 2.35 film were very black.
     
  7. Avi

    Avi
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    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=951096&page=7

    Actual user/owner feedback starts at page 7 and goes on from there for many pages.

    Also Jason Turk (AVS dealer) did a review of the C3X 1080 and originally included a host of measurements and warts and all comments i.e. halo, CR. However, a short while after the review was modified to a "new style" minus measurements (?) with the explanation -

    "Now what you will no longer see is the measurement section. I know some of you will be disappointed, and some will not care one way or the other. I have done this for several reasons. First off, though I always put a disclaimer that my resulting numbers should not be considered as the “rule”, many people do take them to heart. Remember my room is not an ideal test environment, and every projector differs, as does the particular reviewers gear, technique, environment, etc… Because of this, the resulting numbers that I (and really any reviewer get), should only be taken with a grain of salt. Unfortunately this doesn't always happen so I have decided to remove them completely. In their place, I will put specific aspects of the projector in “list” mode, and comment on what I see relative to other projectors I have played with."

    First time I've seen Jason do this on any of the PJ's he's reviewed but I believe some of the original numbers/halo issue are still captured in the feeback thread linked above. It was later posted that Jason's review unit was subpar. I believe he subsequently measured a replacement unit at max CR or 6000:1 compared to the <3000:1 of the original unit.

    From reading the various posts it appears the output on a new lamp hovers around the 1000 lumens mark (some under some over) and best contrast measured is 7000:1 in a very good dedicated room with less than maximum lumens.

    AVI
     
  8. Avi

    Avi
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    Interesting. Anyone who follows Coldmachine knows he is an owner that is very well connected at Sim2. He often corrects dealer info and is very pro Sim2 having owned many models.

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=951096&page=13 post #370

    AVI
     
  9. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    All I remember from that thread is how great the 700:1 Ansi contrast is!:D
     
  10. Avi

    Avi
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    And that's a great number but not as high as some. If ANSI was the only measure of performance it would be great but in the real world it isn't. ;)

    If you want high ANSI the sharp 21k is about the highest I've seen at 865:1 room permitting (Greg R - WSR). If the deals are still around that would save you around £18.5k. :D

    AVI
     
  11. coldmachine

    coldmachine
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    Hi guys.

    The C3X1080 is a great machine, here are a few points.

    1. 1100 lumen at D65, so Dazzer is correct as C3X can give itro 1400 at D65
    2. Real world contrast is around 7200 with max lumen
    3. ANSI is over 700

    Those figures were tested at one of the worlds most advanced HD facilities and are beyond question and have been accepted as such on AVS. The test schedule and methodology were extensive to the point of brutality and is actually being looked at for commercial use.. They also are also very close to Jasons own figures and mirror that of other owners.

    The Iris is very non aggressive and makes only a small difference. One owner measured 850 lumen but found he had set the lamp power down from max and was able to realize 1150. None will be lower than 1000 new. The max yet seen is 1250 @ D65. It is also possible to set to around 7600k and achieve over 1300 lumen for non critical viewing or ambient conditions

    The reason Jasons figures were initially off was actually not due to a defective unit, read between the lines or contact Jason. Also the change in test format was decided on long before that test. It was a decision taken by the owner Alan Gouger, I know this because i was asked for my opinion and input.

    This is without doubt one of the best PJ out there at this mid level price point. There is however on huge annoyance for me...... Those specs could easily read 1650lumen and 9800 CR all at D65, but i don't want to get into that here. It may crop up on AVS at some point.

    ISCO3...The ANSI is not the reason for the 3 chip image although it does help. Single chip DLP ANSI is just as good. The subject has been extensively covered on AVS so have a look on the $20k forum for best info.

    The HT market in the US is very different in terms of maturity and average spend, and there are plenty 3 chippers sold there, the main 2 being the HT5000 and now the 1080 which is totally sold out. These machines aren't really used with screens under 10ft and are almost exclusively ISCOIII scoped on 235 masking screens. From my time in the UK the vast majority of screens are just too small.

    Hope this helps or is of interest.
     
  12. Avi

    Avi
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    Cold

    Thanks for the info. :)

    It may be just bad timing but I found it strange that Jason changed the original review mid review after some negative comment started appearing. At the end of day AVSforum is owned and operated by a dealer in business to sell Sim2 PJ's amonst others. I don't know if there's anything to read in between the lines about that.

    I have no doubt the C3X 720 and 1080 is are fine machines and very profitable products.

    AVI
     
  13. coldmachine

    coldmachine
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    No probs dude.

    Its always a pleasure with the Dazzer:rotfl::rotfl:
     
  14. coldmachine

    coldmachine
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    Dont forget that 99.99% of rooms are totally incapable of actually realizing this figure or anything close to it. Most rooms on here and AVS would yield below 150 ANSI despite the PJ abilities.

    Im happy to outline the extremes to which i had to go to obtain high ANSI capability. You may be surprised.
     
  15. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    It is a 2.35 setup I have, with an Isco III in place.:smashin:
     
  16. Avi

    Avi
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    Always :D
     
  17. jacko5

    jacko5
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    You are right AVI, but unfortunately the deals seem to have expired.
    One 20k owner over on AVS posted that his neighbour was peeved at how close the image was to his very expensive C3X.
     
  18. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    I had actually just got a new credit card to get the Sharp 21k. It arrived about an hour after the site showed out of stock :(
    I keep checking back, but I reckon we've seen the last of them in the country.
    I really really don't know how they managed to get such an amazing native on/off CR.

    Ah well - there'll be another bargain around the corner :)


    Back on topic - looking forward to seeing the C3X 1080 in a couple of weeks at the manchester show with a bit of luck. I always loved the C3X 720.
     
  19. Avi

    Avi
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    Dual iris implementation (one before and one after the DMD). :) The trade off to get the highest contrast is a significant reduction in light output. IIRC the Marantz 15S1 also uses a dual iris system.

    AVI
     
  20. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    I might have the Sim2 1080 this friday morning, so I can have a look at it.
    I have jut sold the HD-1, so my memories are still fresh from my Dila machine.The one thing I have been missing is the pop that my older DLP had.

    I found the HD-1 a bit flat looking, but that's me. I do have some loss of Ansi when going through the Isco 3, so it might be a good idea to have more to start with. My room is extremely dark(black carpet, ceilind, motorised blinds, etc), so these numbers start to make sense.

    I suppose I should wait and see. If anybody would like to join me, send me a pm. Bringing your Hd-1 along, might be an excellent idea!

    I should know this thursday if this is going to happen or not; getting hold of a £20k projector without paying for it, is not an easy task :D
     
  21. Avi

    Avi
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    Given the price difference I'd be very surprised if the C3X wasn't significantly better that the HD1 in all areas apart from black level and lower APL scenes. I haven't seen the C3X 1080 but I have spent time with the HT5000, HT3000/e and HT380.

    That's a very kind offer and I would be happy join you but I can't bring along an HD1 if that's the cost of entry. :)

    AVI
     
  22. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    Cost of entry? :rotfl:

    The HD-1 was just a suggestion, not a requirement:smashin:
    Did I mention I will probably borrow the Marantz 11S1 too?

    The room is small, but we will get a feel of them:thumbsup:
     
  23. Avi

    Avi
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    I haven't seen the Marantz. If you want some company count me in as I'm just down the road. ;)

    AVI
     
  24. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    That's ok with me....
    I will have the Marantz tomorrow lunch time, that's for sure.
    Thursday I will know about the new Sim2, as they are limited pieces here in the UK.
    I will send you a pm
     
  25. Avi

    Avi
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    Thanks that sounds great. :)

    What source material do you plan to feed the PJ's ?

    AVI
     
  26. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    I have a PS3, a Toshiba XE-1, a Crystalio II. The VP has some EDID issues with the Toshiba, but we will get a feel of what is happening.
    I also have a Lexicon Rt-10 with SDI, for SD, but I doubt if we are going to use it.
    We could even stay longer and do a full calibration, but my main concern is to see how a 3DLP performs.
    (My ND filter won't be here by friday though).
     
  27. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    Dimitris,

    Get yourself over to the ISE show again at the end of the month if you want to see real 3 DLP in action ;) 6000 Lumen, 5000:1 CR is what we will be showing :thumbsup:

    You need to decide what your login is going to be as well. Are you an ISCO III-L or an ISCO III-S man! (We'll have those as well and the new sled).
     
  28. Isco 3

    Isco 3
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    I will be the -L.
    Stands for large, right?;)

    I have heard there is a new model from Projection Design coming out, with plenty of lumens and CR too.

    Everytime I go to these shows, I end up spending too much:D
    If I stay away for a couple of years, I will be able to buy a new house with a dedicated cinema in it, probably THX certified.:smashin:
     
  29. coldmachine

    coldmachine
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    Thats interesting. Ive just left behind an ISCOIII/14ft Vistascope/HT5000 with Genelec 324A based 7.1 system.

    The new house has a 35x55 room earmarked for the HT. I wish to increase my screen to a minimum of 20ft wide and possibly 24.

    Im looking at the Dual lamp HT5000 and the PD M80

    would you please contact me here or on AVS.
     
  30. Avi

    Avi
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    What ND filter spec are you looking for ?

    AVI
     

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