Any plumbers here - need help identifying a shower pump

[nheather]

My old Stuart Turner Monsoon shower pump is beginning to fail and I need to replace it.

Trouble is , I can't remember what type and pressure version it is.

Pretty sure it is a negative head type but no idea what pressure.

Is there anyway of telling - it is quite awkward to access it in situ and quite a few years ago a plumber did some work on it and forgot to replace the plastic cover - by the time I had noticed it and contacted him he could not find it, said that it had probably been thrown out with all the other waste. He did provide a replacement but it is generic - I fear that this plastic cover is the only place where model, version and serial number - bit silly if true having such details on a part so easily removed and indeed could be fitted to a different pump.

Anyway grasping at straws, here are some photos

I think the pressure vessel indicates that it is a negative head type.

It is a twin - hot and cold - I know that for certain

I have found the manual but this is common for 1.5Bar, 2.0Bar, 3.0Bar or 4.0Bar and I have no idea what pressure version it actually is.

UPDATE - I can rule out the 4.0Bar as that has a thermal circuit breaker and mine doesn't. I also don't think it is a 1.5Bar, so suspect it is a 2.0Bar or a 3.0Bar.

ANOTHER UPDATE - From the manual the length of the pump is different for each pressure version. Now assuming this is the total overall length, mine is matching the 3.0 Bar.

QUESTION - can you oversize - say it were a 2.0Bar but I have no way of knowing that so fit a 4.0Bar would there be any problem - or does it need to be properly sized for the solution.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[Wahreo]

I’ve not read your whole post as I’m busy but if it’s doing two bathrooms or showers then you need a 3 bar universal pump.

 

[nheather]

I’ve not read your whole post as I’m busy but if it’s doing two bathrooms or showers then you need a 3 bar universal pump.

Been doing research myself 95% certain it is a 3.0 Bar.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[Wahreo]

Generally this would be the size fitted in most houses. Usually the Universal head replaces the old negative head that you have. Prices for these have gone through the roof in recent years. About £430 from Plumbworld which is usually the cheapest.

 

[nheather]

Generally this would be the size fitted in most houses. Usually the Universal head replaces the old negative head that you have. Prices for these have gone through the roof in recent years. About £430 from Plumbworld which is usually the cheapest.

£530 at Plumbworld, £490 at Screwfix.

Was going to fit myself but decided to contact my plumber because the new models aren’t as long as the old ones so I can’t guarantee that the flexible hoses will reach the copper piping - probably will but if it falls short I’d want a plumber to sort it out.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[Wahreo]

Interesting, I looked earlier and I’m sure it was cheaper.

- just checked and the shopping site added a 1.5 bar pump for Plumbworld instead of a 3

yes, when a flexible hose doesn’t just slide in like for like then it’s more difficult, which is definitely what you’re faced with.

 

[nheather]

Hi @Wahreo, just had a thought and wonder what you think.

The new monsoon design is slightly more compact than the old, but I notice that the new 4.0 Bar has the same dimensions as the old 3.0 Bar. So if I fitted the 4.0 Bar the hose connections would be in roughly the same place.

But does it do any harm putting in a higher power pump than required?

Also are there any alternative makes worth considering?

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[Wahreo]

Generally it’s best to stick with Stuart turner as they are the best. I’d also stick with the 3 bar. The incoming cold feed to the hot water cylinder might need to be upgraded if the pump is changed to the 4 bar. Generally Stuart turner recommend a cold feed the next size up from the hot cylinder outlet to the pump because the cylinder can implode if it’s not big enough.

 

[nheather]

@Wahreo

Probably best, the 4.0 Bar is £70 dearer than the 3.0 Bar so probably not much price difference in getting a plumber to fit a 3.0 Bar compared with me fitting a 4.0 Bar and less risk.

One thing that irks me though is that I’m not convinced there is anything wrong with the pump.

It has been doing this for years now, but the problem has been getting more frequequent.

The issue is that sometimes we try to use the 1st floor en-suite and the pump doesn’t start. Usually we go to the 1st floor bathroom, turn on the hot tap (also on the pump circuit) and the pump starts. Very occasionally, that doesn’t work so we then have to go to the loft room and turn on the tap up there. This process has always worked until a day ago when it would have none of it. But later that day it started fine and it was fine this morning.

And once it is started it delivers water without any problem at all.

So to date I have been a little uncomfortable spending £600-£700 to replace it.

Another question - what does the pressure bell do - I assume that is to do with the negative head. The reason I ask is quite a few years ago we experienced a problem where it wouldn’t start at all. I traced the circuit, simulating the sensors and everything seemed to be working fine but the pump would not start. Found that with the pressure bell connected it wouldn’t start but when disconnected the pump would start every time.

Also noticed in the manual about cleaning the filters. That has never been done, not for the feint-hearted as you have to remove the hoses to get at them. But they have never been cleaned in what must be getting on for 10 years.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[Wahreo]

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure how these negative head pumps work other than they get triggered with a ‘bump’ of water. Positive head pumps are triggered by flow switches when the water passes them. It might be worth giving ST a call, their tech department is very good. I’m pretty sure that pressure vessel has to be recharged with air.

the filters are indeed beneath the hoses, kind of like a witches hat.