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Any plasma with decent black level ? LCD's suck in this regard...

JoseD

Active Member
Since it's hard to find everything and there are lot's of knowledgeable users here I decided to ask you guys.
Having had a good 100Hz CRT in the past that I was locking for to upgrade, I got completely blown up (in a bad way) by the horrendous black level of LCD's, even the top rated high end ones. I've then started to look into plasmas and they're better but still not up to a good trinitron CRT. The resolutions of most set's I've seen are also lower than they're LCD counterparts, unless you go to the monster 60" and up models.
Any advice?
 
D

David1943

Guest
I've no issues with the black levels on my Panasonic PX60 but I did initially carefully adjust the picture settings to suit my own taste.

To my eyes, manufacturer's pre-set settings are awful and maybe the TV's you have seen haven't been set properly.

If you do buy one, however, avoid high contrast and brightness settings during the first 200 hours of use.

I find it hard to understand why you find extra large plasmas superior in picture quality unless you have viewed them at a proportionally greater distance than smaller ones.

David :)
 

badkarma

Active Member
I find it hard to understand why you find extra large plasmas superior in picture quality unless you have viewed them at a proportionally greater distance than smaller ones.

Don't think the OP meant that, think he's saying the native res of LCDs is often higher than plasmas unless talking about very large plasma screens.

Anyway, wouldn't get too hung up on resolution. It doesn't necessarily equate to a better image. In answer to the OP though, may be best to try and demo a few screens to see what you think for yourself.

As David1943 says, the black level on the PX60 is more than up to the job (and also at a reasonable price thse days :) )
 

gIzzE

Distinguished Member
So far only the Panasonic commercial screens have black levels I can live with. Check them out.
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
I think your looking in the wrong places...problem is the right places are hard to find.
any whats the resolution of your CRT?.........
 
F

FoxTastic

Guest
Plasma screens power usage varies with brightness. Dark scenes being the lowest. This can make them the most environmentally friendly flat screens. This does depend on the material displayed through it though.
 

Bumtious

Banned
Not this one again.

Ok picture is in the eye of the beholder and you need to be happy with yours.

I find it hard to watch crt now cuz there has not been a decent domestic one made for years and as for Sony 1984 was thier last decent one.

Most peoples perception of black on a tv is wrong, they are set too dark & detail is lost.

Panasonic certainly has one of the best pre charge levels going,(the starting piont of the panel). All plasma pixels have to be charged and in a dark or unlit room you see this as a slight glow of the pixels. As far as detail in darks areas is concerned Pioneer is the best at this but its precharge is currently higher than the Panasonic (wait for the Pio G8 sets where the pre charge will be lower than the Pana).

As for domestic crt you can keep it.

Far too many faults.

Poor Convergence, poor colour balance, poor geometry, poor focus, blooming, balooning, non linear etc etc etc.
 

gIzzE

Distinguished Member
Not this one again.


Why bother posting if it really annoys you?? :D


We can all argue which is better etc. but ******** is right, it is all about what the screen can do with absolute black, definitley in your case anyway, if you had absolute inky blacks on your 100hz crt I can guaruntee you were crushing details in the very lowest ranges. So I think you would be happy with a Panny or a Pioneer, they both go nice and dark, the Panny a little darker, there isn't much between them, but enough to stop me making a purchase of the Pioneer the other day, it is the one area I will not compromise on.
Black levels on LCDs are hideous as you say, no wonder you were put off.

Check these two plasmas out and see what you think.
 

badkarma

Active Member
Since it's hard to find everything and there are lot's of knowledgeable users here I decided to ask you guys.
Having had a good 100Hz CRT in the past that I was locking for to upgrade, I got completely blown up (in a bad way) by the horrendous black level of LCD's, even the top rated high end ones. I've then started to look into plasmas and they're better but still not up to a good trinitron CRT. The resolutions of most set's I've seen are also lower than they're LCD counterparts, unless you go to the monster 60" and up models.
Any advice?
JoseD,

Check out this thread in the HC Gallery, some screenshots of PX60 vs Sony CRT. May help make your decision.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437584
 

JoseD

Active Member
@BadKarma
"Don't think the OP meant that, think he's saying the native res of LCDs is often higher than plasmas unless talking about very large plasma screens."

Yes, that's what I meant..

Thnks for the links

@hornydragon
"I think your looking in the wrong places...problem is the right places are hard to find.
any whats the resolution of your CRT?.."

It was a Toshiba36ZP46 and it's had probably one of the best SD images I've seen. It's rumored to be able to do 768p (not 720p) when using the right source. As for native resolution can't really now, the screen is probably 1080 or 1444 horizontal resolution.


I think I'll wait for the next generation of Pioneer's. The build quality of Pioneer stuff is generally better also (well, at least it was a few years ago, don't know about current state of things)..

Cheers
 

gIzzE

Distinguished Member
I don't thuk you need to wait, if you like the crt imae I would look at the Panny commercial screens, they have the most crt feel of any flat panel, they look very analogue like, which is why I like them so much, the Pioneers although very good definitley don't look analogue, try and see them both together if you can.
I think looking at LCD first is enough to put anyone off flat panels.
 

JoseD

Active Member
@gizlarock
"I think looking at LCD first is enough to put anyone off flat panels."
I agree with you but looking at LCD sales it seems people like them.. Maybe it's just because they're cheaper
 

gIzzE

Distinguished Member
I think it is because on paper they are always better, if you looked at specs only and not the real thing in action you would always go for the LCD.
 

JoseD

Active Member
Didn't really see them in action but done a bit of a search and the PX60 is only 1024x768. The 507 XD is 1365x768 but it's a 50" model. I want 1080p when I get one so I'll have to wait a couple of years (I probably won't even watch tv by then but hey...:rolleyes: )
 

gIzzE

Distinguished Member
Why??

Why do you want 1080p??
I bet you couldn't tell the difference between a 768 panel and a 1080p panel even when you do feed it true 1080p. I know most people can't tell between a 480p panel and an 768p panel.

Just buy a set now, buy the time there is stuff available to take real advantage of 1080p you will have had it a couple of years and you will be able to change for peanuts.
 

JoseD

Active Member
@gizlaroc
"Why ??
Why do you want 1080p??
I bet you couldn't tell the difference between a 768 panel and a 1080p panel even when you do feed it true 1080p. I know most people can't tell between a 480p panel and an 768p panel."

I think I could:) I can tell the difference between 1024x768 and 1600x1200 on my 19" computer monitor and that's on a much smaller screeen at a lower resolution.

"Just buy a set now, buy the time there is stuff available to take real advantage of 1080p you will have had it a couple of years and you will be able to change for peanuts."

True, I'll probably spend much more, 1080p sets are VERY expensive.

BTW what's the prediction on the resolution of future satellite transmissions and Blu/HDDVD, is there any 1080i content ?
 

robin78

Active Member
@gizlaroc
I think I could:) I can tell the difference between 1024x768 and 1600x1200 on my 19" computer monitor and that's on a much smaller screeen at a lower resolution.

But you sit much closer to your computer screen as to your TV (I hope)
See here how close you'll have to be in order to benefit from 1080i/p
Also you should not watch your desktop but a video (examples here) and then say if you can really see the difference. I have downloaded several videos in both 720P as 1080p and on my (good, 21") computer screen I hardly see any difference.
 

gIzzE

Distinguished Member
Well I have had a few of the guys who are really into this sat in a room and all agreed that resolution hardly meant a thing, everything else is far more important.
 

lgans316

Distinguished Member
As per my research in Japan the Sharp (LC-46D62U) offers the best black levels performance of any non-CRT TV but if suffers from banding and color accuracy issues. Next to it comes the Pio / Panny.
 

JoseD

Active Member
@lgans316

Wow, that's an interesting find. Unfortunately the Sharp LC-46D62U was poor in color reproduction and other aspects, and that sort of put it back for me.
 

JoseD

Active Member
Just some food for thought...
Why should the precharge level matter anyway ? If the coating absorbs the same level (or more) of light of precharge's the screen should be black. This would mean that just looking at the precharge level on the specs for each model will NOT give you a good or even accurate idea of the display's black level performance.
 

chaparral

Well-known Member
As per my research in Japan the Sharp (LC-46D62U) offers the best black levels performance of any non-CRT TV but if suffers from banding and color accuracy issues. Next to it comes the Pio / Panny.
I guess you have never seen one of these sharps running side by side with a pioneer 507xd plasma...As the pioneer blows this sharp out the water on black levels...


P.S picture of my pioneer 436xde below showing an SD movie with black bars top & bottom.

DSC00134.jpg


And a picture of my pioneer 436xde showing a black car from my xbox360 PGR3 game...
DSC00162.jpg
 

PjotrrrNL

Active Member
Looking at a viewing distance of 3,5 meters there is really not a big difference with 1080 material on a Full HD 42" LCD compared to a HD Ready plasma screen.
But... the black levels, contrastratio and natural vibrant colours of a plasmascreen (Pio, Panny, Sammy) are so much better that that little more detail doesn't matter anymore IMO...
And...with SD material like digital TV and common DVD's the plasma wins in every aspect.
Just take a look for yourself in a decent shop, I compared the new Sharp 42" Full HD LCD next to the new Samsung 42P7H and it was a no brainer for me what to choose... :)
 

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