Any Paint Experts Here?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Suave, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi All,

    I am a little confused by some of the various paint sheens/finishes out there & am hoping someone can explain them to me and which might be better for my needs!

    I am having some MDF Wall Panels painted & I want sort of a smooth finish that is not Glossy or Flat Matt & can be easily cleaned without paint coming off each time.

    I have been told Eggshell would be great but in my mind, I imagine that to be a a little rough with tiny little bumps as a real Eggshell would have?

    The others are:

    Semi-Matt
    Satin
    Satinwood (Dulux)
    Soft Sheen (Dulux)
    Mid-Sheen
    Silk

    Can someone explain these finshes please & if there is much difference between them? I was just going to buy Dulux but have read that their quality is not what it use to be & that their White Paint yellows after time?

    I cannot find ready made Semi-Matt anywhere & Eggshell colour options seem really limited?

    The other colour I need to match some stuff is RAL7016 which is an Anthracite Grey but I cannot find it in Eggshell (or any other sheen) by any of the paint brands despite best googling! I fear I might have to get it mixed up at a paint centre & that will cost a fair bit more so does anyone know of where I can get it ready mixed or a very, very close alternative?

    Which brand should I go for that is good & offers the colours & sheen I need? The reviews seem to hate Crown, are disappointed with Dulux and the store branded stuff from the like of B&Q, Wickes, Homebase etc seem to get poor to very poor reviews from what I can tell!

    It seems that if I find a colour I like, then it is not available in the sheen needed & vice versa - I have run out of brands to search!

    Suave!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  2. 27neth

    27neth
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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  3. LiamHD

    LiamHD
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    Eggshell refers to the sheen of an eggshell
     
  4. nheather

    nheather
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    I understand Sauve's issue though.

    I recently went to Homebase to buy some bulk-standard brilliant white gloss, the only difference was that I was going for water-based rather than the traditional oil-based.

    In the past I have been used to their being 3 levels of sheen, matt, silk and gloss. I have been used to fact that sometimes silk is called satin etc.

    Now, even from the same suppluer there seems to be extra choices.

    Like I would see satinwood, soft-sheen and mid-sheen all from the same supplier. Clearly different level of sheen somewhere between matt and gloss but not clear which order they go in. Which has the most sheen, satinwood, soft-sheen or mid-sheen - no idea and no help in the shop either.

    And the prices! A 2.5L of brilliant white used be be £10 or less. Now we have gone all environmentally friendly expect to pay £20 or more.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  5. 27neth

    27neth
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    Don't go for the diy shed types of paint. Go to your local trade supplier..

    John..
     
  6. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    Another vote for acrylic over gloss. It doesn't have the shine but the fact it doesn't go yellow is the big winner for me.
     
  7. nheather

    nheather
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    Mr pedant here. Acrylic is a formulation of paint whereas gloss is finish. You can have gloss acrylic.

    I think you mean acrylic over traditional oil-based - and I agree with you.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  8. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi,

    Many thanks for the help!! May I ask, is Johnstone's paint as good as say Dulux or any of the other well known brands? Are they much cheaper - I think I read you have to negotiate prices when you buy which seems odd to me?

    I will need 2.5L in White & 2.5L in RAL7016 so what can I expect to reasonably pay? I just checked on google & there is a Johnstone's Centre close by that also sell Leyland Paints as well but I do not know much about this brand either.

    I read some Amazon reviews of the Johnstone's Eggshell & many seemed to like it except one person who thought it was way to much like gloss?

    What is the difference between Eggshell & this Aqua Satin you recommended? Is one more reflective or smoother than the other?

    I want something that has a very low sheen but will withstand lots of cleaning when using stuff like Pledge, Mr Sheen or whatever other suitable cleaners as I suspect they will gather dust quite quickly!

    On another note, I will probably be using the Zinsser 123 or Rustins MDF Sealer/Primers - I have been told to apply one coat of these & then two top coats of the paint - is this sufficient for a long lasting, durable finish?

    Many Thanks!
    Suave!
     
  9. 27neth

    27neth
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    Im not a decorator but have worked with them for years, a lot use Johnstones paint, some use the Dulux trade paints.
    Prices i have no idea, probably less than Dulux :D
    The Aqua-satin is water based, the eggshell will be oil based.
    In my own house i have used Zinsser bulls eye 123 and Sikkens rubbol bl satura which is a water based satin paint.It only has a very low sheen to it and drys in a couple of hours
    It also washes and cleans very easily.
    One coat of Zinsser, two coats of satin..

    John...
     
  10. 27neth

    27neth
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  11. raduv1

    raduv1
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    Sorry for the thread hijack,

    How easy/hard is it to use an Acrylic Gloss paint for doors ? I've just had three internal doors hung and a friend suggested using a acrylic white Gloss for them. Looking on the Internet it seems it gives fantastic results but at the same time is a bugger to use, Decent Brush, drying time , watering it down etc. Any thoughts on using this.
     
  12. 27neth

    27neth
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    I have never used the acrylic gloss, but the acrylic satin goes on fine. I used on my doors a Purdy brush and a gloss mini roller.
    My mother has just got the same doors as me and a decorator painted hers with oil based gloss and a brush.. I can easily say the finish on mine is twice as good :smashin:

    john...
     
  13. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi,

    Many thanks again! I had a quick look at some internet suppliers for the Johnstone's Aqua-Satin & Eggshell Paints - there seems to be quite price difference tbh - the standard Satin & Aqua-Satin is close to or over double the price of either the oil or water based Eggshell options!

    May I ask, is it that much better a paint that it costs so much? I only need 2.5L of each colour so it is not a huge amount but I am more confused as to what either finish looks like in the flesh so to speak! I will probably just get whatever suits my eye & touch and which I feel will look better when painted but I guess I need to find some examples of them somehow before I commit!

    Can you comment on the smoothness & sheen of each if you know by any chance?

    If I do go for the Eggshell, should I go for the water based one over the oil based?

    OK - One coat Zinsser & Two Top Coats - got it!

    Suave!
     
  14. 27neth

    27neth
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    I have not used eggshell paint for years, probably about 10 years ago so it will of been oil based.
    Its going to be impossible for anyone to describe what the sheen difference is on either, taking pictures will also be useless. I don't think you can buy tester pots to try.
    You will just have to take a gamble and pick one or the other :D I would always pick a water based paint as it dries quicker, doesn't smell as much and you can clean any spills and brushes with water..

    john.
     
  15. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi,

    Did some price searches on the net & as there is an actual Johnstone's & Leyland Paint Centre very close to me, I decided I will just get it from there & give a local business my custom thinking that prices will more or less be in line or maybe a few quid more.

    These are the prices (inc. VAT) I can get if I order direct:

    2.5L Acrylic Eggshell White @ £16.01
    2.5L Acrylic Eggshell RAL7016 @ £21.70

    The Johnstone's Store quoted me:

    £33.62 & £47.74 respectively fro the exact same products but as I was a local, he applied a so called 25% discount making the final prices: £25.14 & £35.81 & really banged on on what a incredible deal it was!!

    Like I said, I do not mind paying a bit more from local shops as I appreciate they have additional overheads but 40% is a bit much even with a discount applied!!

    Suave!
     
  16. bluedroog

    bluedroog
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    In my opinion you'd do well to find better paint than Craig & Rose 1829, it is classy stuff. I love some of the colours, very sophisticated and the eggshell I agree is always my finish of choice, it may be a little towards the matte side for your wants / needs.

    Don't skimp on paint, it really does make a difference, my walls clean really easily. Just the other day I cleaned the walls with the same damp sponge and I had the rinse it every few seconds as it was just taking the paint off the wall.

    Re the C&R 1829, a mate sent me a picture just through my phone after he decorated and I freaked him out by guessing what paint he used, it just looked good.
     
  17. Suave

    Suave
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    @bluedroog

    Thanks for that - I have to be honest, I have never even heard of that brand!! I'll check it out & hope that it's not too expensive! Can they mix up custom colours do you know?

    Suave!
     
  18. bluedroog

    bluedroog
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    Not sure to be honest, possibly not as they're quite proud of their 'period colours' but I guess it's worth checking.

    We actually ended up mixing ours 50 / 50 with some white and got exactly what we wanted.

    It does cost more but not outrageous, we're hardly minted, it's the Waitrose of paint I'd say!
     
  19. LiamHD

    LiamHD
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    Johnston/Leyland can and will mix you up any of these fancy period Paints colours.
     
  20. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi LiamHD,

    What's your opinion of Johnstone's or Leyland's paint then - especially the Eggshell?

    Suave!
     
  21. LiamHD

    LiamHD
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    I find there paints to apply very well and to give an even sheen. The paint also seems to last longer as well. It's durable and can easily be cleaned with a damp cloth. Eggshell looks great once dry and was a breeze to apply with a good coverage out of the tin. Prices are reasonable too.
     
  22. big rd

    big rd
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    give the panels a coat of zinser the shellac one is best when dry go over with a medium sand pad paint stores have these cheap. then give them another coat of zinzer as satin wood and eggshell don't have a great deal of body.use the pad of again apply your first top coat padding off again before your 2nd top coat get a tack rag to remove fine dust between coats.
    you might want to try a foam rad roller sleeve and leave it in roller finish this looks good if done well or apply it with the roller and lay it of with a brush the roller will apply the paint nice and even if you not used to a brush.
    I would say to use eggshell as satinwood will shine a lot using this method dull paint is usually the result of poor preparation.
    get a quality brush very important a two inch should be fine.
    also crown paint is good paint but for coloured oil pants I find johnstones one of the best
     
  23. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi big rd,

    Great help matey - very much appreciated! I have one problem though & that is the Zinsser BIN (Shellac one?) Primer/Sealer only comes in one colour which is White. This is great for the panels which will be painted White but I have read a few times that if one is using dark top coats, to then use a dark coloured Primer/Sealer.

    These seem to be very few - I am tired of googling for them & then do not know if they are any good if I do find some! Half my panels will be painted in the RAL7016 colour which is a Dark Anthracite Grey so would it not be best to use a dark grey Primer/Sealer rather than a White one?

    I have found White & Dark Grey in Zinsser 123 (Water based?) but that is all apart from another brand called Rustins & I believe the Zinsser stuff is better? The Rustins stuff is also water based I believe.

    What would you suggest with the panels to be painted Dark Grey - use the Dark Grey water based Zinsser 123 Primer/Sealer or the White Zinsser BIN Shellac? Do you know of any other options/products that would work well?

    Just to let you know, I will be using Medite Moisture Resistant MDF.

    Many Thanks!
    Suave!
     
  24. big rd

    big rd
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    if its dark grey stick with the off white shellac . give them one coat of zinzer.
    when you buy the top coat ask the shop for the appropriate shade of undercoat probably mid grey.
    give the panels one undercoat and then your two top coats.
    primers don't come in colours to match top coats they are basically to prepare a surface for decoration.
     
  25. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi Again!

    Oh, I did not realise that I needed to also apply an "Undercoat" layer on top of the Primer/Sealer & then two top coats - I thought it was one coat Primer/Sealer & 2 of Top Coat so do you mean to do that to just the panels to be painted Dark Grey or also to the ones to be painted White as well?

    I take it that Acrylic Eggshell will be OK on top of the Zinsser Shellac - i.e. applying a water based product on one that is not?

    Sorry for my confusion!

    Bazzy!
     
  26. big rd

    big rd
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    zinzer will work great as an undercoat on the white panels but give it 2 coats of zinzer one will be the primer 2nd one will be the undercoat the idea is to blank out the mdf and add a bit of body.
    another option is to give the grey ones a two coats of zinzer the same as the white and then two coats of the grey it should cover if not just apply a third coat. undercoat is used to give body and coverage to the top coat paints like gloss are very thin and have low coverage transparent if you like .
    eggshell has some body and covers better mdf is smooth and you will get a nice finish.
    I would recommend using oil based paint its easier to get a good finish
    if you go for a water based paint have a look at dulux super grip primer this is also water based and might help with keeping brush marks down in your later coats.
     
  27. big rd

    big rd
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    ah
    just had a thought its been a while since I painted any mdf. scrap the grip primer and stick to the zinzer the mdf might discolour if you use water based primer and topcoats.
    water based paints will be fine with shellac zinzer its one off the best decorating products available
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2015
  28. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi,

    I hear what you say about using oil based paints & that would normally be my preference but with the new formulas due to regs etc - is there not a real risk of an oil based white paint yellowing over time?

    That is my fear as once the panels are placed, it will be a PITA to sand them down & repaint if any yellowing occurs & they will be facing direct sunlight as the wall with the white panels is south facing - just want to make sure as I have read about the disaster Dulux & some others(?) had with their Brilliant White oil based paints turning yellow!

    Suave!
     
  29. big rd

    big rd
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    you are right about yellowing dulux gloss still does.i have started to come to the conclusion its their undercoat that causes it.
    water based will be ok give the mdf a coat of zinzer first as a water based primer might let stains to come through the paint from the mdf.
     
  30. Suave

    Suave
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    Hi,

    I think you have convinced me to switch from the Zinsser Bulls Eye 123 to the BIN as you feel it is a better product & gives better results - just hope it dries as quickly. I have already bought the better quality MR-MDF so may as well get the primer that give the best & strongest results for the long term but damn, it is expensive!!

    I'll be getting Zinnser Bin & Acrylic Eggshell Paint - is all OK?

    I'll try & get the guy to apply two coats of it but am sure he will charge more as he only wanted to put on one coat primer at front & back, two on edges & two top coats on facing side only!

    Many Thanks!
    Suave!
     

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