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Any one using SDI into crt projector

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by David167, Oct 27, 2003.

  1. David167

    David167
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    Don't know if this is the right forum to be posting on, but is anyone out there using an SDI player with SDI scaler/HTPC? If so, are there any visible improvments over the usual setup?
    Any opinions appreciated as I am considering going the SDI route, but would like to know if it's worth it before spending my money!! I'm running a Lumagen Vision, Toshiba 900E player into 1209s Graphics.
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    David,

    We'll probably be doing the component V sdi demo in the scaler room at The Event. The difference this can make depends on the performance of your display and the performance of the analogue outputs on your source and the analogue inputs on your scaler. It can go from really obvious to hardly perceptible.

    Hardly perceptible is when you are using an amazing analogue outputting DVD like a TAG DVD32r in to a scaler with amazing analgue inputs like a Snell and Wilcox Interpolator Gold.

    Gordon
     
  3. popeye

    popeye
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    Hi David

    I'm using a Centrestage CS-2 with an sdi up-grade board with a Panasonic sdi dvd player, Seleco SDG 700 L6 CRT projector and a Stewart studio tek screen.

    I also have a Sony DVP-S7700 dvd player running through the CS2 with a Nordust Optix component video cable, so I can make a direct comparison between the two.
    I can report there are improvements with sdi with colour fidelity, sharpness and fine detail. The difference isn't massive, but can clearly be seen. It really depends on can you justify spending the exra money for the subtle improvements sdi can give you.

    All I can say is that I don't regret going down the sdi route and I'm very happy with the results.

    Hope this helps.


    popeye
     
  4. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    Very interesting, I wasn't aware that the CS-2 had an SDI upgrade available. I had been contemplating buying a lumagen but really wanted DVI and SDI, I knew the CS-2 had DVI but missed the SDI upgrade.

    Excellent news.
    Paul
     
  5. Rob

    Rob
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    Isn't the Vision Pro now available with SDI?

    David, I run a simelar setup to you at present, Tosh SD900 -Vision - Barco 1609s, although I'm in the process of having a PC built...:confused: Time will tell if it was a good move or not.

    I also considered the SDI route. I guess you could add a Holo3 and an SDI player eventually. Best of all worlds then.

    Rob.
     
  6. Nick Beecham

    Nick Beecham
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    Gordon

    When I had the SDI Rock+ I would have said: "Really Obvious".

    Now I have the Rock Pro I would say "Hardly Perceptible". If I look at a test pattern, the extra resolution of SDI is there. However, for real pictures, there is very little difference. At the end of a film, I sometimes flick between S-Video and SDI while watching the credits. Believe it or not, S-Video looks slightly sharper.

    Do you think this merely demonstrates the quality of the Rock Pro's analogue input or that my SDI set up isn't yet quite optimised?

    All the best
    Nick
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Nick,

    I think that the new capture card in the Rock Pro is alot better than the old one in the Plus. The better the handling of the analogue inputs the less SDI is going to make a difference I think.

    Gordon
     
  8. David167

    David167
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    Phew, I lot to take in!!

    Thanks for all your reply's guys, I guess what I'm really trying to ask is if there is anyone willing to provide a demo of what SDI is like, (A-B comparison preferably).

    Hi Gordon, I emailed you some time ago re:Event2 to check as to whether there were any places available, but I haven't heard anything yet. I wonder if you could let me know if there are sapces available.

    Having just spent a lot of money recently (the afore mentioned 1209s Graphics!), it's kind of a hard decision to make.:suicide:
     
  9. nfordenfield

    nfordenfield
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    £X0'000s of quids analogue system is close to a £1000 hcpc solution - oh what a bargin:confused:

    Best value SDI is via standalone DVD player into a sdi capture card then into dscaler out of a radeon vga to port3 or port5.

    A HCPC gets very close, but can lose out on audio side.

    Never owned a 32r not a Interpolator Gold, but guess once HDMI is here, there will be alot of them going cheap as chips.
     
  10. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Nathan,

    The dvd32R and a n Interpolator are close to an htpc? I don't think that's what I said at all. What i said is that if you have a great analogue section in DVD and scaler/processor the difference in SDI is negligible. HTPC is not at level of Interpolator....sorry..

    Value is relative. Best value is relative too.

    Gordon
     
  11. nfordenfield

    nfordenfield
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    Sorry if my comment was taken out of context, not most people here would "buy a interpolar and dvd 32r with other cheaper solutions exist, especially with hd sat and d-vhs

    Is this better than a £600 D-VHS player?

    rgds
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  13. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    Ah, but when Hi-Def DVD's arrive (WM9, Blu-Ray etc) ......what then!?

    I take it all this sort of thing (HTPC, S&W etc) goes out the proverbial window (for DVD). And when broadcast HDTV does arrive, well no need for any of them at all (not much else left to scale/deinterlace).

    Can't wait, one more link in the chain out of the way! Direct source to display - magic!


    Paul
     
  14. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Gordon,

    What you did say is that a Vigatec and a Pioneer SDI DVD player were very close to the Interpolator and a TAG DVD player. By todays standards the old Vigatec scaler and a SDI modded pioneer 737 aren't anything special. I'm not saying the Interpolator isn't on another level, we all need to be more careful when comparing. Some things aren't immediately obvious.
     
  15. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Paul,

    Why do you think that interlacing artifacts will disappear when 1080i proliferates? HD DVD will be a fantastic step forward, if and when they agree how the hell to do it.

    Also why would broadcast HDTV have any affect on the ability of your display to reproduce DVD ? Do you belive that when we go to fixed pixel displays they'll stop adding resolution at 1080P?

    Or are you suggesting that DVD's will die a death when broadcast hi-def appears? (which may be the case but I doubt it for several years)

    Oh and you might want to change your signature as you are unlikely to be using direct digital connections from STB's or DVD players with a CRT.......... :)

    Gordon

    Playing Devils advocate as usual
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Jeff: Where did I say that?

    We did the SDI v Analogue at Event 1 using interpolator. It was a very close demo. Folk couldn;t tell a difference so I stopped doing it.

    Using Vigatec it was an obvious difference when I did it for myself and staff at SS.

    I too agree that S+W is old technology but it is properly designed engineering and it produces a great image.

    The thread was about how does SDI differ from analogue. I answered as honestly as I can. I'm not a Snell and Wilcox dealer and I cannot become a Snell and Wilcox dealer. I tell it as it is.

    The future wil bring better quality sources with different sorts of artifacts. Standards will raise both for broadcasters, manufacturers and consumers.

    Gordon
     
  17. Jeff

    Jeff
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    :blush: Oops your right, I remebered it wrong! It was that a "cheap" DVD player using SDI was able to closely match an expensive TAG model. The scaler never came into it.

    Sorry!
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Indeed a Pioneer 717 sdi out in to a GVC1280 was as good if not better (bar the chroma bug) to a DVD 32r in to a GVC1280. We didn;t really play any chroma buggy stuff. I prefered the video of 717 and MUCH prefered the audio of 32r

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to Event 2 and getting more answers...and probably questions!

    Gordon
     
  19. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    Blast!! I forgot about that! You swine, you spotted the weak link in my armour :mad: !

    So we'll still need deinterlacers whatever, I had assumed we wouldn't. You're right of course about SD DVD's but hopefully we'll be able to wave goodbye to them sooner rather than later!
    Paul
     
  20. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Paul, absolutely with you on SD DVD's. HD on a suitable device is great. 1080i still exhibits interlace artifacts. I should know as I've been going through stuff on my plasma for Event2!

    G
     
  21. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    Sooooooooooo, will Lumagen or more likely perhaps Immersive bring out something like a standalone 720p/1080i (say) deinterlacer with for example DVI/SDI input and RGB output purely for folks who have crts or such DVI-less devices?

    Would there be a market for such a device? Would be pretty cheap to manufacture I would think but only if numbers warranted it. HDCP issues?

    (This cunningly gets us back on topic with the SDI bit)
    Paul

    PS bags the patent as its my idea
     
  22. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    PAUL:

    If content has HDCP on it then any device that transmits it, scales it or distributes it is not able to remove that HDCP encription. If it's a video processor this means it must turn off its analogue outputs.

    I believe that to get an HDCP licence you need to agree to a minimum damages figure of $7,000,000. That is if you break the licence agreement you will be paying AT LEAST but not limited to $7,000,000. It is perfectly possible for manufacturers to hack HDCP but I really don't think anyones going to do it.

    Which leaves us back at SDI in for analogue out. Or HDMI (480i,576i) in for DVIHDCP out to fixed pixel devices.

    Gordon
     
  23. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    I'm with you. So it sort of boils down to having a crt and using SDI or going digital to use digital connections (which presumably will be standard on Euro Hi-Def STBs).

    Blimey, what a choice. Each has potential problems and advantages. Hi-Def appears to have more questions/problems than I first thought.


    Paul
     

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