Any Help For a Novice Would Be MUCH appreciated....

Sweet Sounds

Standard Member
All good.

Steve/bluewizard
Steve and all, thanks so much for the help and advice to date. Dali speakers and CA Solo Phono along with recommended cables coming today. Fingers crossed the instructions are good so it's an easy set up for this non tech music lover !!
 

Sweet Sounds

Standard Member
Hi all, Mr Needy again!!
Speakers and CA Phono arrived but I forgot speaker cable. Just about to order but looking at speakers and amp they need to go in 'bare' rather than with a plug of some sort. Does this sound right? Also, on amp I have loads of ports relating to speakers, most of which are surround sound including FRONT, CENTER, SURROUND and SURROUND BACK/BI AMP. Then there are the Extra SP ones as per photo.

Can one of you kind people tell me where to put them in the amp and confirm if stripping cable and inserting it straight in is the way to go. Many, many thanks yet again !!
IMG_20190307_131847.jpg
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
You can use bare wires but it looks like there are bungs in the end of the speaker connectors that can be removed to allow banana plugs to be used. Try removing one to check. No real benefit in bare wire vs banana except for convenience so long as you make sure there are now stray strands that can connect black to red on a bare wire connection.
 

Sweet Sounds

Standard Member
You can use bare wires but it looks like there are bungs in the end of the speaker connectors that can be removed to allow banana plugs to be used. Try removing one to check. No real benefit in bare wire vs banana except for convenience so long as you make sure there are now stray strands that can connect black to red on a bare wire connection.
I've tried removing the 'bungs' but they don't come all the way off which I assume means bare wire? And then bare wire in to the speakers which seem the same as the amp? Looking at the photo of the amp above, would you go for one of the surround ports (which one?) or the Extra Speaker on the far right? Also do you think 2x2.5mm cable would be ok? Sorry for all the questions but I'm hoping that'll be it!
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
If you are using it for stereo I would use the Front Left/Right channels. Any 2.5sq.mm cable will be good so long as it is Oxygen free copper (OFC) - I would not spend mare than a couple of pounds per meter though. Just make sure you connect black to black and red to red, there should be a marker on one of the cables (which every you buy) either a visible stripe or a raised stripe.

Something like this would do as a starter - https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirek...971252&sr=8-6&keywords=oxygen+free+copper+2.5
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
I've tried removing the 'bungs' but they don't come all the way off which I assume means bare wire? ...

Visually the Speaker Binding Posts are in two parts the outer Nut that is used to clamp down on the wire, and a smaller inner ring. That small inner ring should pop out and allow banana plugs.

Though given that I'm not there, it is hard to determine just exactly how you would do that. But on a vast majority of speaker terminals, you just use a small screw driver or pocket knife to pop those restrictors out of the center of the terminal post.

If you look at this photo, though it is not very good, at the center of each speaker post you do not see the plastic ring, rather you see the Gold center pin of the post itself, which implies that indeed those center plastic rings can be popped out.

https://www.soundandvision.com/images/112yamrec.bac.jpg

Though a very long link, here is a better picture of the back of the Yamaha RX-V871 -

Google Image Result for https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page2/sC_b0056ymmf6-rear01lg.jpg

Again, note the center of each speaker binding post, it is metal not plastic, indicating that they have popped the center plastic ring out of the post.

This is actually a safety regulation. Because speaker voltage can exceed 25v, there can't be any exposed metal. But knowing that people want the convenience of Banana Plugs, the make the binding post plugs removable. The danger of exposure to voltage is very very low considering the posts are hidden at the back of the amp and generally inaccessible. Plus when not music is playing, the voltage there is ZERO.

25v, which is usually considered the threshold for potential shock hazard, is 78watts. Which would be ungodly loud with most speakers. A majority of the time, even at fairly loud volume, you are averaging just a few watts, so the actual working voltage is pretty low. But the potential for higher voltages exists, so they have to conform to safety standards.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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Sweet Sounds

Standard Member
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Anyone want a pair of brand new Oberon speakers and Denon turntable? These are about to get hurled out the window!

I didn't read your post until today or I would have got some banana plugs. You are correct the plastic lug does pop out with a small screwdriver. However before I read it, I connected everything up once the speaker cable was delivered. I just hard wired it behind the posts. Everything was looking good, I put Wish You Were Here on the turntable, lowered the arm and sat back with a coffee in an empty house ready for heaven.

All I got was loud hissing noises from both speakers. I've checked all cables which are all in the correct places and secure. I've added some photos just in case there's any glaring errors one of you kind folk may spot. I can hear very very faint tinny type of music coming through the crackling if I put my ears close. Surely banana plugs isn't going to make it as it should? I'd love it if they could as I've got some being delivered in the morning.

Any help, as ever, would be MUCH appreciated.....
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BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
There is TOO MUCH bare wire exposed on your Speaker Wires at the Amp. That is too high a potential for a Short. Either push the wires farther into the Amp Binding Post, or trim a bit off so virtually no bare wire is exposed. Do NOT get any snips of wire into or on the amp, that will be disaster. When you trim the wire end, assuming that is what you do, keep the wire WELL AWAY from the Amp.

On the Turntable, the first thing you have to do is make sure that the turntable is DEAD LEVEL, you can buy a 2-way bubble level at the hardware store for under £5.

Example -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Mini-Caravan-Levelling-Indicator/dp/B003LX6DCM/

You can probably also get a Round Bubble Level at a similar price -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/32x10mm-Diameter-Bubble-Circular-bullseye/dp/B01KU07TM6/

Next, you need to set the Tracking Weight on the Turntable. There are video on YouTube explaining this. Basically Balance the Tonearm, then dial in the correct Tracking Weight; typically around 1.5 grams.

Then set the Anti-Skate based on the Tracking Weight. I believe the Denon has a spring tension dial, if you you set the Tracking Weight to 1.5g, then set the Anti-Skate to 1.5, or as instructed in the Owner's Manual.

Your RCA/Turntable wiring looks good. The Earth Ground wire connect to both the turntable and the Phono-Pre-Amp. Cable quality looks good.

Make sure you have the input selected that the turntable is plugged into.

Make sure you are not using TWO Phono Pre-Amps, in other words, make sure the Phono Pre-Amp inside the turntable itself is turned OFF. In fact, in the Photo I can see that the Equalization is set to ON, it should be OFF.

And most importantly, clean up the speaker wires at the Amp. Again TOO MUCH Bare Metal exposed, too high a potential for an accidental short. The wires can short to reach other, or they can short to the chassis, or they may not be deep enough into the Binding Post to be making contact. . That is one of the benefits of Banana Plugs, though they might have exposed metal, they go in place and stay in place.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
 

mcarpe

Active Member
I wonder if your av amp does actually have a phono equaliser built in if you are using an input labelled phono. Try plugging the denon turntable straight into the phono input on the yamaha with equalisation turned off on the denon. If this doesn't work then try connecting the denon to another input on the yamaha and then turn on equalisation. This should work as long as the cartridge and arm are setup correctly
 

Merv71

Novice Member
Both BlueWizard and mcarpe are correct, you've got the phono equaliser set on on your turntable, you're then putting the signal through an external equaliser and you've connected it to the phono input on your receiver. You only need to use one of those, turn the equaliser off on your turntable and either connect your turntable directly to the phono input on your receiver, or turn the equaliser off on your turntable and connect the output from your external phono stage to a different input on your receiver. The latter option should give the best result in sound quality.
Also I'd like to re-post this again:-

There is TOO MUCH bare wire exposed on your Speaker Wires at the Amp. That is too high a potential for a Short. Either push the wires farther into the Amp Binding Post, or trim a bit off so virtually no bare wire is exposed. Do NOT get any snips of wire into or on the amp, that will be disaster. When you trim the wire end, assuming that is what you do, keep the wire WELL AWAY from the Amp.

as this is very important.
 

Sweet Sounds

Standard Member
UPDATE - I replaced all the bare wires with banana plugs, spent a long time on the arm, I took the preamp out of the equation and there it was....sound! So I sat back and listened to a couple of Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Sgt Peppers and Paul Weller. It sounds good, but hasn't blown me away. I read that it can take up to 100 hours for the speakers to get played in.

Theres a bit of crackling here and there which I actually quite like, there's plenty of base, maybe a little too much. I've played with tone and still trying to get that sweet spot for me. I'm interested in trying the preamp to a different input on the receiver (with equaliser off) to see if this improves sound quality as Merv71 says. I've tried taking the volume close to the max and it wasn't as loud as I was expecting and I'm guessing this is down to the quality of the receiver?

I've also now linked the TV up with them so I don't have t listen to the TV through it's own pathetic speakers - this has improved the TV watching experience significantly.

Next on the shopping list is probably a CD player and possible receiver.

So thanks to everyone that has taken time out of their day to give me some great advice. It really is appreciated. I'll keep a eye out on this site now looking for recommended receivers and cd players to complete my little system.

Thanks again !
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Very likely the external Phono Pre-Amp you purchased would sound better than the Internal Pre-Amp on the Turntable, though you can try both and compare.

Here is a video on how to set the Tracking Weight on a Turntable -


But there are dozens of these on YouTube -

youtube.com/results?search_query=turntable+tracking+weight

This video explains the concept of Skate and Anti-Skate -


It sounds like you are up and running, but I though I would still provide this information just for reference.

Steve/bluewizard
 

Sweet Sounds

Standard Member
Okay, I've had the equipment a few weeks now and played well over 100 hours of music. I have the Oberon 5's, Denon DP-400, Cambridge Preamp Phono and my old Yamaha amp.

The sound to me isn't right, I guess I don't know what it SHOULD sound like but it sounds very flat. I think I've got the arm right, the connections right etc. So, I'm going to ask my local dealer where I got most of it from to set up the Oberon 5's with a turntable so I can hear what it should sound like. My guess now is that my old amp isn't performing as it should - I guess I'll be walking out a few hundred pounds lighter and a new amp under my arm!
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Okay, I've had the equipment a few weeks now and played well over 100 hours of music. I have the Oberon 5's, Denon DP-400, Cambridge Preamp Phono and my old Yamaha amp.

The sound to me isn't right, I guess I don't know what it SHOULD sound like but it sounds very flat. ...

Sounds FLAT?


Two things spring to mind -

Speaker Wiring
- make ABSOLUTELY SURE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the speakers are wired correctly. That in every case the Amp(Red+) goes to the Speaker(Red+) and black to black. Nothing will suck the life out of a system like one of the speakers being wired backwards.

In this out-of-phase condition large swaths of frequencies are cancelling each other out.

Speaker Placement
- DO NOT put your speaker back up against the wall or deep into a corner. All speakers need space around them. Boundary Effect, the bass boost of being near the wall, does not show up so much as bass boost, but rather a recess and muddiness in the Mid/High. If your speakers sound flat, then give consideration to placement.

Dali speakers, in general, sound anything but flat.

Turntable Connections
- Though it would sound substantially more than Flat, you must make sure that you ARE using a Phono Equalization Stage, and that you are only using ONE Phono Equalization Stage. The key is Equalization. The response from the turntable cartridge is not flat because the music on the Album is not flat. The bass is Cut and the Treble is boosted. On playback you apply the opposite equalization, that is why Turntable specifically need a unique PHONO connection or an external Phone Equalization Pre-Amp.

However, in this case it would not just sound flat, rather the frequency spectrum would be completely off. With no equalization pre-amp, you would have no bass and way over amp'd Treble. With two pre-amp in the chain, you would have over hyped bass and very recessed treble. That does not sound like your problem though.

Jumper Bars
- Likely the speakers can be Bi-Amp, that is they have FOUR Speaker Terminals on the back of each speakers. If this is true, then there are Jumper Bars or Bridges between the Woofer Red(+) and the Tweeter Red(+) and between the Woofer Black(-) and the Tweeter Black(-).

If one of these Jumper Bars is not making contact, and the Tweeter is not in the circuit, the speakers will indeed sound very flat. Make sure both those Jumper Bars are in place and making contact, and that both woofer and tweeter are working.

I think like the first two listed are the more likely problems.

Steve/bluewizard
 

mcarpe

Active Member
It might be the AV receiver - they are usually no where near as good as stereo amps at hi-fi sound. See if you can get a home demo of a proper hi-fi amp.

Did you return the phono preamp or decide to keep it? Any difference compared to just the Denon or using the phono inputs on the receiver?
 

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