Any Electrical Sparks here?

ericmcn

Standard Member
Hi Folks,

I am doing quite a bit of work out the back of my house, mainly laying slabs and getting a new shed up. As part of this I need to keep bees happy so will have an allotment for plants on one side of the border and a planter on the other.

I have outdoor LED strips purchased I want to route along both of these areas, 5M each side. I need to tap into the wiring however as it needs to be routed to the shed, I will need about 5M each side maximum - these are 45W LEDs, 12V so low voltage. (WIFI controlled so can control by app etc)

I intend to route these underground (obviously) and thread them into the shed via a conduit - Anyone here have recommendations for suitable wire? or even a conduit - I need 5 cores as my LEDs are RGB-W so multiple wires, I can use 2 each side if I cant get 5 cores.
Where the wires need joining I have a IP65 box which will house the wago connectors which I will seal with silicon to give an extra barrier

On top of this I need another wire routed for a CCTV camera, most of these are 12V about 25W maximum so the wire suggested should be fine for this.

The power for the LEDs is coming from a Solar panel, I have a 100W solar cell which will be housed on the shed and I have a 30A solar controller which will be programmed to come on at dusk and off at dawn - the battery is a 12V 60Ah unit

I also would like a water feature, which I will put wiring in place for but its AC mains - so again I need some suggestions for this - I will get an electriciian to do this but it cant be too hard to wire up a socket in the shed (need to power a tumble drier also from this, and the water feature and the CCTV camera) - I have an outdoors waterproof socket (which is connected to the main RCD) which will be used to feed the socket in the shed - using a conduit.

I am also thinking which is the best way to power the water feature, I would imagine these use 100Watts maybe, If I use my solar controller I need an inverter and isolators so its probably just best to power it from the mains socket in the shed and can put a timer onto it as I only want it to be used at dusk/dawn.

Any advice would be appreciated
 

ufo550

Distinguished Member
The best cable to use outdoors is swa cable to a termination box (Wiska are good), then final connections in a H07RN flexible cable (or similar);

If the run is not too long, you could just use the H07RN cable. To protect it you could put in some flexible conduit or twin walled ducting or even some of this. The two later best IMO. Do not bury it though. If you use swa, and want to bury that, put that in some of the above ducting. As your electrician for advise.
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
The best cable to use outdoors is swa cable to a termination box (Wiska are good), then final connections in a H07RN flexible cable (or similar);

If the run is not too long, you could just use the H07RN cable. To protect it you could put in some flexible conduit or twin walled ducting or even some of this. The two later best IMO. Do not bury it though. If you use swa, and want to bury that, put that in some of the above ducting. As your electrician for advise.

I have a weather proof box from screwfix, I need 3 of them - 2 outside for each end of the LED strip and 1 located in the shed where the 12V feed is. I am only putting 35/40W max out of these so not sure if I need such thick cables and it will be located in a conduit I need to bury all my wires as I am laying slabs and cant have wires all over the place - the will exit in the shed where the power point will be and also either end of the strip where there will be a border with decorative stones / drainage and the wires can be extended through here.

The 5 core wire on the LED strip I need to tap into is rated for 300V/24AWG see pic.

I have a sparky calling tomorrow, will see what he says.

Ki69rrB.jpg

GPd0KXh.jpg

l8eRzha.jpg
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
The best cable to use outdoors is swa cable to a termination box (Wiska are good), then final connections in a H07RN flexible cable (or similar);

If the run is not too long, you could just use the H07RN cable. To protect it you could put in some flexible conduit or twin walled ducting or even some of this. The two later best IMO. Do not bury it though. If you use swa, and want to bury that, put that in some of the above ducting. As your electrician for advise.

Thanks for this website

SUPERLEC 5CORE 1.5MM 3185P H07RN-F EPR / PCP FLEXIBLE MAINS CABLE - EN60332-1-2


This stuff looks good - 5 core, a 1.5mm2 conductor should be fine for this 40W LED strip

Would this suffice for my other requirement - the feed from the outdoor waterproof socket box back to the shed ? this will be a Mains supply - so 3 core - its already connected to the RCD so I can just wire this up to a standard socket outlet in the shed.

SUPERLEC 3CORE 6MM 6383P H07RN-F EPR / PCP FLEXIBLE MAINS CABLE - EN60332-1-2

 

ufo550

Distinguished Member
I'm not quite sure what you are doing, it would be easier for your electrician to understand, when on site. Are your LED tapes, low voltage or extra low voltage?

If you have long runs for extra low voltage (<50VAC), you may need larger core cables, what does the manufacturer say?

All outdoor joints can fail eventually. Only ever use Wiska boxes, and suitably rated stuffing glands
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
I'm not quite sure what you are doing, it would be easier for your electrician to understand, when on site. Are your LED tapes, low voltage or extra low voltage?

If you have long runs for extra low voltage (<50VAC), you may need larger core cables, what does the manufacturer say?

All outdoor joints can fail eventually. Only ever use Wiska boxes, and suitably rated stuffing glands
12V DC is SELV

I have 2 LED strips - the end of these need splicing -- that is where the weatherproof box comes in.

The strips are 5M length, I need an additional 5M each side to go from the weatherproof box splice back to the shed -- in the shed I will have 12VDC feed from a solar panel controller. I need the 5 core wires to trail from the weather proof boxes on both sides back to the shed.

I need another wire to feed a mains socket in the shed -- this is 240V AC, will be used to power tumble dryer etc in the shed. There is a waterproof socket outside I can use to get this feed which is already on the mains RCD.

I will check out them wiska boxes, do they have O rings / gaskets fitted too or what makes them so good?
 
Last edited:

ashenfie

Well-known Member
The short answer is not if you want it to comply to the regulations and particularly as a tumble dryer sucks some juice. Armed cable and fuse box with rcd is required.

In any event I would have an rcd in the shed and cable laid correct with yellow warning label and deep enough that no Faulk etc will hit it
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
The short answer is not if you want it to comply to the regulations and particularly as a tumble dryer sucks some juice. Armed cable and fuse box with rcd is required.

In any event I would have an rcd in the shed and cable laid correct with yellow warning label and deep enough that no Faulk etc will hit it
How has your existing outdoor socket has been fed?

The outdoor socket has been fitted when the house was made, its the standard 2 gang outdoor sockets you see with a closable lid - its already rigged to the RCD of course. Putting another RCD in the shed seems a bit overkill for the same circuit.

All the cables will be underground with a conduit, I have said this a few times.

I am of the opinion that this will do for the 12V SELV LED string

SUPERLEC 5CORE 1.5MM 3185P H07RN-F EPR / PCP FLEXIBLE MAINS CABLE - EN60332-1-2

And this for the Mains feed from the outdoor socket

SUPERLEC 3CORE 6MM 6383P H07RN-F EPR / PCP FLEXIBLE MAINS CABLE - EN60332-1-2

I will check with the sparky who is visiting.


 

ufo550

Distinguished Member
Your outdoor socket has probably been spurred off ring final circuit. If it has no fused connection supplying it, you cannot add to it.

I wouldn’t recommend using H07RN for low voltage buried underground. You should use a swa cable in some ducting.

I should wait for your electrician to visit, before running any cables.

Yes two rcd.s in series is waste of time.
 

ufo550

Distinguished Member
Its tapped into one of the sockets in the living room.
Then to supply an additional source, a FCU before the outdoor socket would need to be installed, no big deal. This would limit the design of your alteration to 13A, including whatever you use your outdoor socket for.

PS a FCU is a good design feature, means you can isolate the alteration from the house, if it develops a fault.
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
I wouldn’t recommend using H07RN for low voltage buried underground. You should use a swa cable in some ducting.

This might be better then?

SUPERLEC 6945X 5CORE 1.5MM SWA BS5467 STEEL WIRE ARMOURED CABLE WHITE NUMBERED CORES

Should I use SWA cable also for the AC mains wiring? 6mm2 3 core.

I am going to get 2 x WISKA boxes as they are rated for IP66, this is why I asked for advice :) My screwfix box is IP65, I can keep one for use in the shed as I need a box in there also.

Thanks all
 

ashenfie

Well-known Member
The outdoor socket has been fitted when the house was made, its the standard 2 gang outdoor sockets you see with a closable lid - its already rigged to the RCD of course. Putting another RCD in the shed seems a bit overkill for the same circuit.

All the cables will be underground with a conduit, I have said this a few times.

I am of the opinion that this will do for the 12V SELV LED string

SUPERLEC 5CORE 1.5MM 3185P H07RN-F EPR / PCP FLEXIBLE MAINS CABLE - EN60332-1-2

And this for the Mains feed from the outdoor socket

SUPERLEC 3CORE 6MM 6383P H07RN-F EPR / PCP FLEXIBLE MAINS CABLE - EN60332-1-2

I will check with the sparky who is visiting.


Its necessary due to the long cable run, how the rcd's work and the regs. It can be pain if you have multiple RCDs as they all tend to trip. The sparky will point you in the right direction I guess.
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
Then to supply an additional source, a FCU before the outdoor socket would need to be installed, no big deal. This would limit the design of your alteration to 13A, including whatever you use your outdoor socket for.

PS a FCU is a good design feature, means you can isolate the alteration from the house, if it develops a fault.

What is a FCU? The house has a RCD like per usual - the socket in the living room is obviously going to the RCD box - this was all setup when I bought the house.

Regarding the outdoor mains socket, I dont intend to use much with this - my tumble drier is rated for 850W, 13A is more than enough.

I have installed LED lights with a single way dimmer I got on screwfix myself -- no big deal and works very well but I am mindful of doing outdoor work so will see what the sparky says

NmjDA9d.jpg

YqNql6l.jpg
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
A sparky called - he is to give a price.

SWA wiring - no need for conduit

1.5mm2 5 core for the LED strip, 15M (need around 6M each side)
1.5mm2 2 core SWA cable 10M used to feed a CCTV (12V, 25W) will be plugged into one of the mains sockets in the shed. - this will have a weatherproof box fixed low down to wire up to the camera
Mains SWA 3 core wire for the AC outlet - 2 gang socket istalled in shed w/fuse
Outdoor timer / socket installed next to the waterproof outlet - to be used for future devices, ie water feature.
Waterproof IP66 boxes to feed the LED strip to the shed - both sides of the LED strip cable will be fed through decorative stone on the borders - and into the shed

I want to install as much wires I need to now as afterwards when my patio decking is done its too late.
 
Last edited:

ericmcn

Standard Member
I have been out the garden and done measurements and went ahead and ordered all this - I needed some wire for indoors also so just went ahead and got the outdoor wiring also

1. on the list here is needed for wiring LED ligts to a display cabinet of mine, I wasnt happy with the existing setup.

2. 12M of 5 core SWA, 1.5mm2 good for 10A and more than enough for 12V SELV LED strip

I have 12M which is more than enough but its better to order more than what you need than too little, this will be divided in 2 as i need around 5M each side

3. 10M of 6mm2 AC Mains 3 core SWA, 32A - I wont be going anywhere near this level. but plenty headroom. This is going from outdoor socket to the 10x8 foot shed where everything will be rigged up

4. 10M of 1.5mm2 2 Core SWA - This is 'auxiliary' wiring I want to install as I am considering getting a CCTV installed - a IP66 box will be used close to where the Camera will be installed and the 10M wire will be fed back to the shed - this will be a standard 12V 1/2A wall plug to the socket installed in the shed

5.4M of 2.5mm2 2 core SWA -This is feed from the Solar panel to the Solar controller via standard solar panel MC4 connectors, 2.5mm2 is more than enough for the loading I will be using. The panel is rated for 100W (~6A) - My Load is rated for 4A maximum and I am not going to connect anything else to the load other than the LED strips. This wire will also be used to connect the 12V 60Ah SLA battery to the solar controler. The wire will be routed from the solar panel on the roof into the shed where the controller needs to be mounted on a distribution board.

The LED strip will be terminated in the shed where the wires from 2. above will be joined in a weather proof box - the output of which will be connected to the Load terminal of the solar controller, I will use a in line 6A fuse on this just in case


I dont need isolators as I am not using inverters or dealing with large amounts of power

The 3 wiska boxes will be used for the LED strips (2 boxes) and the auxiliary wiring I am putting in place for the CCTV.

I will get a sparky to wire all this up in the shed as I need some distributiuon board bolted to the shed I am buying to hold everything neatly and also I need the fused socket installed - 2 Gang.

Was thinking of getting a light rigged up while I have mains fitted in the shed but I think getting a battery powered LED bulb that is motion activated will do



Superlec 3X0.5 PVC,PVC CONTROL FLEX GREY, BLACK CORES, WHITE NUMBERS 1 GREEN/YELLOW,GREY SHEATH
Ref: YY3X/5
Colour: GREY, Cable Length: 1m
£0.38
£0.32 ex. VAT
4£1.54
£1.28 ex. VAT
Superlec 6945X 5CORE 1.5MM SWA BS5467 STEEL WIRE ARMOURED CABLE WHITE NUMBERED CORES
Ref: XLPE5X1/5ESI
Colour: BLACK, Cable Length: 1m
£1.90
£1.58 ex. VAT
12£22.75
£18.96 ex. VAT
Superlec 3CORE 6MM SWA BS5467 STEEL WIRE ARMOURED CABLE BRN/BLUE/GRN YW CORES
Ref: XLPE2EX6
Colour: BLACK, Cable Length: 1m
£3.55
£2.96 ex. VAT
10£35.52
£29.60 ex. VAT
Superlec 6942X 2CORE 1.5MM SWA BS5467 STEEL WIRE ARMOURED CABLE - HARMONISED CORES
Ref: XLPE2X1/5
Colour: BLACK, Cable Length: 1m
£1.03
£0.86 ex. VAT
10£10.32
£8.60 ex. VAT
Superlec 6942X 2CORE 2.5MM SWA BS5467 STEEL WIRE ARMOURED CABLE - HARMONISED CORES
Ref: XLPE2X2/5
Colour: BLACK, Cable Length: 1m
£1.46
£1.22 ex. VAT
4£5.86
£4.88 ex. VAT
Wiska WISKA COMBI JUNCTION BOX 85X49X51MM BLACK - COMBI206/BK
Ref: COMBI206BK
£2.98
£2.48 ex. VAT
3£8.93
£7.44 ex. VAT
 
Last edited:

John7

Well-known Member
You are running all the outside mains wiring from an outside socket that is suppled from a connection from a household socket? Good luck!

You need a double pole fused connection unit between the house and outside as a minimum. Primarily to limit the current that can be drawn form your household circuit AND to be able to isolate the entire outside circuits if a fault develops (usually water/damp ingress) that will knock out everything in your house that is connected to the RCD protected circuit feeding the house socket.
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
You are running all the outside mains wiring from an outside socket that is suppled from a connection from a household socket? Good luck!

You need a double pole fused connection unit between the house and outside as a minimum. Primarily to limit the current that can be drawn form your household circuit AND to be able to isolate the entire outside circuits if a fault develops (usually water/damp ingress) that will knock out everything in your house that is connected to the RCD protected circuit feeding the house socket.

The only mains wiring is going to feed is a bench top 850W tumble dryer - I think you lot are over analysing things here, the mains socket in the shed will be fused -- I said this previously
and my RCD will trip anyway if excess current or moisture gets into the circuit outdoors, which should not happen.

The Solar controller is feeding the LED strips- 40Watts - we are not talking a nuclear power station here

BTW, I had a sparky fit an outdoor 100W flood light last year, which was a mains feed and he used a cheapo box to connect the wires and no glands at all

yAMnvum.jpg

lA9sVy3.jpg

6ccv6Zi.jpg
 
Last edited:

ufo550

Distinguished Member
BTW, I had a sparky fit an outdoor 1000W flood light last year, which was a mains feed and he used a cheapo box to connect the wires and no glands at all
There are a lot of people out there who call themselves, competent electricians, but a lot of them are not. That aside @ericmcn, sounds like you are going to install this yourself. It will all need testing (low voltage) before you energise. Have you thought how you are going to do that.
 

ericmcn

Standard Member
There are a lot of people out there who call themselves, competent electricians

He was a 'qualified' electrician - fancy van and all. He never turned up to fit the other flood light I specified so I fitted that myself with a PIR sensor - house not went up in flames yet and no RCD tripped
It will all need testing (low voltage) before you energise. Have you thought how you are going to do that.

I doubt any spark would do much 'testing' other than installing it, and the sparky I spoke to yesterday never even mentioned glands. We are talking a LED strip here, not a 2KVA transformer. Its easy to test by plugging it in.

I am going to sound out some other electricians to install what I need to fit in the shed with the wires I have ordered which are perfectly fine and probably of better quality than a low rent sparky would get themselves
 

The latest video from AVForums

Paramount + UK launch: Halo, Star Trek and Beavis, and all the latest 4K + Movie/TV News
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Sony unveils Inzone gaming brand
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Bowers & Wilkins launches Px7 S2 wireless headphones
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 27th June 2022
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Netflix confirms ad-supported option is on the way
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom