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Any advise on this CRT WS issue please?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Jimmi, Jun 13, 2004.

  1. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    I've had a Samsung WS28M64NS WS for what must be nearly 4 months now and although it has a couple of niggles, years of disappointment at the quality of WS CRT sets has resulted in me being far less scrutinising and I'm generally happy with it.

    However, recently I plugged my Xbox into it, set the Xbox to widescreen and loaded up media player. I was rather miffed to find that the dirs on the far right of the screen were visibly wider than those on the left - Something I'd never notice in a good 4 months of TV/DVD viewing. Now I find myself looking for this problem rather than just watching whatever's on the screen at the time, most of the time it's not especially noticeable and the fact I'm aware of it often has me thinking that maybe I'm exaggerating the problem more than the reality. So basically the issue is that if you imagine the screen being spilt with a vertical line down the middle, the left side is smaller horizontally speaking than the right - in other words the further to the right of the screen an object is placed the wider it will appear, and vice versa. I don't really know what the technical term is for this issue and I don't recall seeing it on any of the other 4 WS CRT set's that I've owned (that's not to say it wasn't there mind you). Has anyone got any advice?
     
  2. Steve Zodiac

    Steve Zodiac
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    Unfortunately the "geometry" of CRT televisions is never perfect, widescreen or standard 4:3.

    All display types seem to have their strong points and weak areas and IMO, geometry, maximum screen size and physical bulk are the weak points associated with CRT.

    My Sony WS CRT has a great image but the geometry isn't perfect. I decided to leave it as it is rather than have a technician adjust the geometry settings only to possibly find it was worse after. On the whole I just accept this and it doesn't really bother me.

    If your set bothers you virtually every time you watch it, I would have a look at other TV's of the same model to see if they have the same "fault". If they have, then it is unlikely that the geometry could be improved much. If they haven't the same fault, then you could bring it to the attention of the retailer where you bought the TV and they should either replace or repair/adjust the TV under the guarantee.
     
  3. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    I have a samsung WS28W8VME and it also displays this exact problem. I have spent a great amount of time fiddling with the various settings and to be honest I haven't been able to do much to improve this issue although every other part of the picture has been greatly improved.

    I found that on my set fixing the overscan and RGB shift had the biggest impact on my picture and that I couldn't notice the difference in size unless I used the cross hatch test pattern on DVD Essentials.

    Incidentaly the one issue I haven't been able to do much with is the colour balance. The green test pattern gives a poor result with other blocks at varying colours however the red and blue look to be perfect. Anyone got any tips on to fix this without a colour analyser?
     
  4. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Does that mean you've been able to access the service menu?
    If so could you tell me how please?
     
  5. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    standby-display-menu-mute-standby

    et volia!

    Usual story though. Don't mess with anything if you don't know what it does and write down all of your settings first.

    My advice is to fix RGB Shift, V Amp, HEW and Horizontal Position. After that you can worry about getting everything squared off using HTrapazoid, HParabola, HSymmetry and HCorner. Don't worry about the other settings 'til you are happy with that.

    Neil
     
  6. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Thanks.
    Does changing the settings result in changes to all of the screen modes?
    Also are their seperate settings for NTSC and PAL display? I know that my set displays NTSC stuff slightly higher up the screen than PAL so I'm guessing they both have unique settings.
     
  7. jtorry

    jtorry
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    i have a problem with my samsung but the tv repair man said it was normal. light areas are projected to the right so for instance on end creits you get white bands streaking accross to the right from the white text. Do any of you have this problem?
     
  8. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    On my set there is no individual setup for different signals unfortunately, at least none that I can see. I have had a look at the service manual for your set and it looks to be basically the same as mine. The difference in location could be due to the slightly differnt refresh rate of the NTSC signal I believe
     
  9. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    My set also does this and it is most annoying :(

    Other posts indicate that this is harmonic streaking and seems to be common on Samsung sets. No one has let me know if this can be fixed but I would love to know if it can be. Something tells me that it may not be an economic repair however.
     
  10. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    My Samsung also does this but to be fair my previous Sharp and Panasonic sets used to do it as well.

    In my brief experience of looking at WS CRT set's I tend to find there are two types - Those which give a rougher natural look (like Philips) and those which give a more digital look (like Panasonic and Samsung) and these type of set's tend to suffer from the light streaking issue you mention by varrying extent. On the plus they tend to give a more pleasing picture.
     
  11. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Is there anything else coz I can't seem to get it working on mine.
    I put the set into standby, I then press the display, menu, and mute buttons, then take it out of standby and the TV just turns on as it normally would.

    I assume the display button is the one above the round menu button to the right which changes the screen modes?
     
  12. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    Jimmi,

    Display is to the right of the remote and has a little plus sign on it I think. Probably one or two above the button you are pressing. It isn't the one for changing screen modes. A quick squint at the manual would be best as the button icon isn't exactly intuitive.


     
  13. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Ah yes, I see it now.
    Before I dive head long into the service menu is there anything I should be aware of?

    All I really want to do is reduce some over scan and correct the RGB shift.
    I'm thinking of inserting one of those THX test screen dvds in the player first and using that as a guide line if possible. I take it all screen modes are connected, so changing a value in 16:9 will also make that same change to 4:3, etc?. Are there some values which should be avoided?.

    I assume you just press standby again to come out of the service menu, then press it again to go back into normal TV viewing?
     
  14. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    Jimmi,

    Setting the overscan and rgb position is a great place to start. The THX Optimiser set to 1:1.78 test pattern will help work out the overscan and position but here is a little tip that I have used.

    I haven't been able to move between sources when in the service mode which makes it tricky to use the test patterns. Basically in service mode all you will see is whatever RF channel was tuned in before you enetered the service mode ie BBC1. To save switching the TV in to standby over and over again I would use the test pattern to try and get a feel for how far off centre the picture is Vshift and RGB shift can then be used to centre the picture.

    Once that is done and you are happy the picture is central from an RGB source(warning on my system the best position for RGB and RF seem to be different this is not a problem if you only use RGB sources like me) you can set the horizontal and vertical amplitude using HEW and V Amp respectivley. This is best done byturning these values down until you can start to see the black edges at the side of the broadcast picture. Then just turn it back up a couple of clicks to ensure that the picture fills the entire screen. I found that I couldn't do much better than 2.5% overscan all round if I wanted to avoid seeing black edges on the TV picture. Then you can double check that everything is still centered properly.

    After you have done all this you will need to set the contrast and brightness. This is obviously dependent on your room environment but values around the 60 mark are a good place to start and you shouldn't take the contrast much above this.

    I can't stress enough how important it is to write down the settings before you mess around in the service menu. Because i am a nice guy please check your PM for a nice helper with all of this.

    EDIT You don't take PM so PM me your email address and I will send you a spreadsheet to help record everything

    Neil
     
  15. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Thanks mate, some really great advice there. :thumbsup:

    I've enabled PM now.

    Do you know which value would lower the picture vertically speaking? I'd like to find some kind of comprimise between the height of NTSC and PAL RGB sources. Like I mentioned before NTSC is higher up the screen for some reason. I guess lowering it will lower the PAL position as well but I might be able to find a satisfactory comprimise.

    As for the brightness/contrast - I've had to turn the brightness level right down to 45 because otherwise a light patch becomes apparent over the far left of the screen. The higher the brightness the more noticeable it becomes. My contrast is set to 68 which is slightly higher than your recommendation mainly to try and counter balance the drop in brightness.
     
  16. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    I've got into the service menu fine but it brings up a menu which says - deflection - video options 1 - video options 2 - video options 3 - and some more menus.

    I'm not confident enough to randomly flick through each one so in which of these menus would I find the options to correct over scan and vertical/horizontal placement? :)
     
  17. Neil Davidson

    Neil Davidson
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    Jimmi,

    All the settings you want are on the deflection menu. Don't worry about moving about in the menus as long as you don't change anything. I can't see how to attach a document to a PM and i don't want to post the files on the board for everyone. Just PM me your email addy and I will fire them over by return. That will contain all of the info that you will need to get started.

    Neil
     
  18. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    documents received, thanks mate.
    I'll let you know how I get on.
     
  19. Memphis Raines

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    Sorry about bringing this post back from the dead but i have a ws32m64v see help ghosting! post (original question at bottom of post.)
    Well using the ceenhad service menu access i can get into the service menu now :thumbsup: but frankly i dont know what i'm doing :mad: so if ceenhad or anyone else for that matter can give me any advice i'd REALLY appreciate it!

    P.S

    i dont know how to link to a previous thread on these boards so you may have to do a search...original topic called Help! ghosting
    thanks

    pps
    Starting to get bands of green across the screen as well... :suicide:

    =====================================================
    I have a samsung ws32m64v 32" flat screen TV, and when watching tv/dvds the picture ghosts to the right, and i dont have any idea how to get rid of it.
    Say for example i hit pause on the dvd then where the player says paused onscreen in white, it will ghost/bleed to the right, same thing happens with lights and other bright colours with a dark backgound near to the light source.

    Have i just got a bad telly or somthing as its driving me nuts!

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    ======================================================
     
  20. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Memphis Raines - The bleeding to the right when light colours cover dark colours is a quirk of the set. Many other major brands of CRT TV's do this too. You can improve things by dropping the brightness/contrast settings.

    I do have a question though which maybe ceenhad could answer if he still checks out the forums - Don't know if anyone else has noticed this but the Samsung is incorrectly flaged when displaying 4:3 full screen material via an RGB connection. In other words 4:3 material is displayed in widescreen even when you set the TV to 4:3 mode. Has anyone found a way of correcting this issue? I'd imagine it could be something simple like changing a value in the service menu so that the TV recognises true 4:3 even when the dvd player is set to 16:9 widescreen RGB.
     

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