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Anti mode 8033 vs SVS AS EQ1

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Gents,

I run a single sub (Sonus Faber Gravis) via an Arcam AV8, fed from a Denon 3800 analogue out with the Denon controlling the frequency crossover, speaker distanes and levels. I currently crossover at 60Hz

The Gravis has a frequency adjustable from 38-65 Hz.

The room is 20' by 13' with 9+ foot ceilings (piccies below) I have a lot of flexibility with sub placement as can be seen, behind the seating position is not used.

I am interested in trying the SVS or Anti-mode. Given my kit list (below) what are the differences and how do they compare (I have read both long threads ;))

Any advice greatly received :smashin:
 

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paulst10

Distinguished Member
Hi again, you made it over here then :smashin:

Really there is only one man who can answer this question .. our official AVF reviewer, Russell :) he is probably the only person who has tried both in the same room/system :smashin:

While I have had my first play about with an Anti-mode today, and it was on a system I am very familiar with, I still would not be able to comment on it as we never measured anything. Without question it did improve his subwoofers performance in the same? way my EQ1 improved mine .. but I certainly wouldn't be able to make any valid comments on which is best for you and your room :(

Have you weighed up the pro's and con's regarding the features for each device ? and also have you measured the frequency responce in your listening position already ? :)
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Paul, Tks

Nope I haven't measured my room at all. I did think about buying XTZ but never got around to doing so.

All the speaker levels are set using a DB meter, but apart from lots of experimenting with positioning, that's it. :eek:

I did phone up Kent Home Cinema for a chat and looked at taking one on the understanding if I didn't get on with it I could send it back. I'm now thinking perhaps the 8033 might be an easier and cheaper option.

Anyone who has compared the two would be very helpful :smashin:
 
R

recruit

Guest
Hopefully Russell will give the lowdown as he has both and already produced one review of the Antimode, the EQ1 can't be too far off now?
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
REW measures 8 positions, but I believe it averages them, while Audyssey has proprietary algorithms that weight the measurements before combining them. Both REW and SMS-1 are looking at only a few milliseconds - a snapshot, if you will - not the big temporal window considered by Audyssey. I think AntiMode might be the only other room correction technology on the market right now that peers into the future like Audyssey.

Anyone help with REW, I believe this is free software ? Could I get set up by buying a Microphone ? :confused:
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member

Member 639844

Former Advertiser
Anyone help with REW, I believe this is free software ? Could I get set up by buying a Microphone ? :confused:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwoofers/728289-tuning-your-subwoofer-rew-how.html

This is a useful guide, it should tell you everything you need to know :smashin:

Edit: Beat me to it :)
Here is a post I put up some time ago thats proved useful time and time again and has a little more detail in it. It may make things a bit easier for you.
 
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IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
:clap:
Here is a post I put up some time ago thats proved useful time and time again and has a little more detail in it. It may make things a bit easier for you.

Great Thanks, I have ordered the radioshack meter and connectors, my only question is will I need anything to connect the radioshack meter to the male RCA connected to the PC via 3.5mm jack ?

Does the meter come with any cabling ?

Tks
IWC
 

pepar

Active Member
Anyone help with REW, I believe this is free software ? Could I get set up by buying a Microphone ? :confused:
Room EQ Wizard is free. But you should buy - scratch that - will need a calibrated mic and the only ones I know of also need a preamp that supplies phantom power. You might have to cough up ~US$200 - US$300.

edit: saw the other posts and your reply. While there is a calibration file available for the Rat Shack meter, the file is a generic one and the meter has unit-to-unit (and batch-to-batch) variations that make it, IMO, inaccurate for this task.
 
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IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Moonfly thanks, is it just a long single RCA cable ?
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Room EQ Wizard is free. But you should buy - scratch that - will need a calibrated mic and the only ones I know of also need a preamp that supplies phantom power. You might have to cough up ~US$200 - US$300.

edit: saw the other posts and your reply. While there is a calibration file available for the Rat Shack meter, the file is a generic one and the meter has unit-to-unit (and batch-to-batch) variations that make it, IMO, inaccurate for this task.

Am I bout to waste my time then :rolleyes:

I wish someone could answer the question about which is better between the SVS and the 8033. I'm starting to think buy the 8033 and just have a go, but then I will never know what MIGHT be missing :suicide:
 

Member 639844

Former Advertiser
Am I bout to waste my time then :rolleyes:

I wish someone could answer the question about which is better between the SVS and the 8033. I'm starting to think buy the 8033 and just have a go, but then I will never know what MIGHT be missing :suicide:
Its most certainly not a waist of your time. A radio shack c-weighted spl meter is around £25, plus the cable you need thats around £30. Its a small outlay to measure your room. I used the meter with and without the mic cal file and the difference was negligible. A certainly would worry about slight variation in manufacturing of the spl meter, IMO thats taking things a bit for in the nit picking stakes.

REW will give you a good idea of your rooms response, and may even show you dont really need any auto EQ device at all.

Moonfly thanks, is it just a long single RCA cable ?
No, its an RCA to 3.5mm jack cable. Have another read through the post I linked (now included in my sig), its all detailed there with links to pictures of the exact cables you need and how to connect them.
 
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paulst10

Distinguished Member
Am I bout to waste my time then :rolleyes:

I wish someone could answer the question about which is better between the SVS and the 8033. I'm starting to think buy the 8033 and just have a go, but then I will never know what MIGHT be missing :suicide:

If you buy an Anti-mode, at least you will find out in minutes whether EQ has improved your system :smashin: and if it doesn't you could sell it on very quickly in the classifieds and probably only loose a few quid in the process :thumbsup:

REW on the other hand, will require many hours of your time, has quite a steep learning curve if you are just starting out, and will probably result in many questions :D In time though, REW will give you a better understanding of what your room is doing, where the best position for your subwoofer is etc! over what an Anti-mode or SVS EQ1 would. But the auto EQ's are literally 'set and forget', whereas the manual EQ's will seem like you are forever tweaking ;)

I have never bothered with REW (it just sounds like too much faffing around IMO needing external soundcards, BFD etc!). I have always preferred a simpler approach and the EQ1 has proved to be just that, especially after owning an SMS-1. Before I got the EQ1 I always doubted what I was hearing, forever wondering whether the sub was performing as best it could .. but now everything sounds so accurate and precise that I don't even think about it anymore :cool:

I would give the Anti-mode a try if you want to stay sane ;)

Or buy an SPL metre, and download the test tones in the FAQ, burn them to cd and playback while measuring each tone in your seating position .. this is probably the cheapest option and will give you an idea on the frequency responce in that seat, and you can also experiment with subwoofer positioning. You only need an SPL metre (which should be a necessity for any HT enthusiast anyway) :)
 
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Member 639844

Former Advertiser
:rotfl: Thats probably not a bad point. I would say though if you are interested in learning about the whole ins and outs of sub bass, you'll learn more and get more of an understanding by going through the process than you ever likely will by simply reading about it or just sticking an antimode/EQ1 into your system.

What kind of person are you, one who needs to know whats making things happen and why, or one that just wants the dam thing to do its job and be happy when it does :D
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
What kind of person are you, one who needs to know whats making things happen and why, or one that just wants the dam thing to do its job and be happy when it does :D

Me ? the second one :D

So IWC Dopplel .. you take the red pill, you stay in wonderland and plot graphs in your sleep .. or you take the blue pill, and in minutes you achieve what most spend days/weeks doing and with no disturbing after affects ?? :devil:
 
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paulst10

Distinguished Member
:D

Have moved some posts here to keep the EQ1 thread on topic :smashin:
 

milesr3

Active Member
If you buy an Anti-mode, at least you will find out in minutes whether EQ has improved your system...REW on the other hand, will require many hours of your time

As someone who has spent many hours with REW and a BFD and 5 minutes with an 8033 to get a much better (sounding) result, I would strongly agree with this.

Based on my experience, you won't get a good result with REW until you've done it at least a few times and unless you can measure the time and frequency domain (which you can't with an RS SPL meter AIUI - well I couldn't anyway) then you'll be hard pressed to get anywhere near the performance of an 8033.

Taking an 8033 over a BFD (plus SP meter/mic, new cables etc) is a no-brainer for the small additional cost. I wouldn't even think about a BFD now.

Comparing the AS-EQ1 and 8033 might not be an easy (direct) comparison either as they both do subtly different jobs. The 8033 will EQ 1 or 2 positions, the AS-EQ1 many (although you can leave the mic in one place and just one or two, but it's not supposed to be used like that). I am expecting the 8033 to sound best in the primary seating position but not as good elsewhere, whereas the AS-EQ1 probably won't sound quite as good in the primary seating position but will be better away from this. Which one to choose may turn out to be more influenced by your EQ preference in the room (one or many locations) and budget rather than technical performance...
 
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R

recruit

Guest
If you get a test disc like AVIA it has sweep tones and specifically for the lower bass, 20hz-200hz and just by running the sweep if you hear any quiet points you will know what frequency you have a null, and if over bearing bass at a particular frequency a room node...but just using an SPL meter to set speaker levels right is a good start..
 

Member 639844

Former Advertiser
Just to clear things up, I'm not trying to say REW is better than something like an antimode etc. I just think there is a lot you can learn from going the REW route first that is very beneficial. Not to mention the fact you may not even really need the expense of an EQ device. Only yesterday someone was asking about getting one of these, and Russell recommended he didnt buy one as after an REW graph and waterfall was posted he felt the gains would be minimal.

IMO it is worth the £30 to check your room before you jump on the EQ float, although not necessarily essential.

Just my view.
 

Will Scarlet

Well-known Member
I agree with recruit. Why buy something you might not require in the first place. An SPL meter is something you should own anyway and costs about £25.

I think you should get a meter, download the excel spreadsheet to go with your Radioshack (this is available at the same HT site as REW) and do some manual measurements. If you have a problematic room you will quickly find out and at that point you can start to think about EQ.

Hope I'm not outta line.;)
 
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HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
Room EQ Wizard is free. But you should buy - scratch that - will need a calibrated mic and the only ones I know of also need a preamp that supplies phantom power. You might have to cough up ~US$200 - US$300.

edit: saw the other posts and your reply. While there is a calibration file available for the Rat Shack meter, the file is a generic one and the meter has unit-to-unit (and batch-to-batch) variations that make it, IMO, inaccurate for this task.
Whilst I wouldn't argue with you on the technical accuracy of what you're saying, I sometimes wonder how necessary absolute accuracy is and is this more of a musing than taking you to task.

Okay, calibrated equipment can allow you to know that your measurements are directly comparable to the next blokes, but ultimately people should only really interested in achieving the sound they want, rather than the measurements to match someone else. After all, one man's flat is another's bass shy and one man's house curve is another's bloated bass. This is before you take into account room variations. Flat in my room is awesome, in Adam's it's like you forgot to turn the sub on.

Granted the RS SPL and the Behringer ECM8000 that I use show some sample variations, but unlike a pro installer most people only need to know if a change is a change in the right direction; did the dip disappear or get larger? Did the change boost the bottom end or not? Either way, the only measure worth a damn is does it sound better? Once you establish the 'response' sounds best to you, I wonder if it matters whether that the SPL meter/mic rolls off a couple of dB more at 20Hz or is a couple of dB higher than reality?

Like I say, I'm just thinking aloud as in an ideal world, all kit would deliver +/-1dB sample to sample accuracy and that would be great, but it doesn't, so should we really worry? The fact is you have a 'curve' to aim for and know its the one you like, so does the accuracy really matter? Are we being pernickety over minutiae and is it effecting the advice we should be giving that is to actually just start measuring, as that is the biggest quantum leap you can make?

Russell
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
Hopefully Russell will give the lowdown as he has both and already produced one review of the Antimode, the EQ1 can't be too far off now?
I can't provide an informal comparison before the official review is published and and I have one other review on a 5.1 surround speaker package to finish first. I'm afraid that probably put's anything on the AS-EQ1 a couple of weeks off.

What I can say is that the one obvious difference is that the AS-EQ1 is capable of integrating the speakers response, whilst the 8033 leaves that part of the equation to you. If REW and other such tools are of no interest or too complicated, then you can pay the extra for a device that does it for you. The question I can't answer yet, is once both options are tuned to the optimum, which sounds best.....

Russell
 

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