another 'which sub' question! (I'm confused)

All, this is my first post - so please be gentle. I did some searching first to see if I could find information that would help with my quandry - I found some, but still need a little more.

So I'm appealing to you all !

I am in the middle of building / integrating a home cinema system with my exiting hi-fi. The system is built on compromise - though the front speakers are relatively large - I require small rears for 'room friendliness' - the Radius' are the best solution in this regards I have found (auditioned)

Current System:

Yamaha DSP-E800 Processor / Amp
Front Right & Left Channel - EPOS ES22 Speakers powered by Naim Audio 102/180 amplification
Rear speakers - Monitor Audio Raidus 90
(no centre speaker yet)

The problem is the Sub. I thought I had it sorted, as I auditioned the following three subs:

MA Radius 360
Rel Quake
KEF PSW2010

The Kef (unfortunately - because it's the ugliest) in my opinion, completely outperformed the other two. The Quake was next best and lastly the Radius 360 which I found quite undewhelming. Note: Sub will only be used for movies - not music.

So I was all set to get the Kef. However, Kef won't sell it to me !!! They will not split it from the KHT 2005.2 package! They will sell me a PSW2500 which is more or less the same thing - but this I can't accomodate in the room (odd shape!).

So I'm wondering what should I do?
Should I settle for the Quake or should I go for the Q150e (which is quite a bit more than I wanted to spend). The Q150e is also the 'largest' Sub I can accomodate (so as you can see I am restricted).

Now I'm reading about this MJ Accoustics Reference 100. Should I be considering that? How does it compare? The Kef Sub had a far superior level of controlled slam than the Quake / Radius 360 - both of these seemed to 'bottom out ' or become 'flabby' whilst the Kef was still going strong.

opinions? Many thanks in advance. !!!

Damian

 

Blowing our trumpet a little here but the MJ Acoustics was recently outperformed in this months WHF by the Mordaunt Short MS309 which is also cheaper at £220 and won the test outright. The 309 is reasonably innoffensive looking as well in a black or Maple finish. You also get the standard MS room equalisation features as well that allow for a better setup in most domestic enviroments.

 

Or you could try the BK XLS200. I have just got one of these to go with my radius and am well impressed

 

If you decide on the Rel q150e, I have one that is mint condition in the classified and will not cost you too much.

 

Cheers Guys.

Mr Mordaunt Short - I see that the comparison in What Hi-Fi was actually against the Pro 50 rather than the Reference 100.

Fazer - how do you get hold of the XLS200 - can't find a link that works !

Damian

 

Welcome aboard. I was in the same boat as you a month or so back. I'm still here!

I'm going to suggest you raise your sights quite a bit. You have a decent system that could be nicely augmented in both music and film by a decent sub. I think you're aiming far too low given the high quality of your present kit.

I'm running Mission 753Fs from Naim 72/180 and was slightly underwhelmed by the only decent sub that I could audition locally. A B&W ASW675 beside a very large pair of floorstanders. Others here like the 675 a lot. You may well too. I would set that as a minimum marker for your system.

I bet the ES22's do better bass than many of the cheaper subs around!

Nimby

 

Here you go

http://www.bkelec.com

 

I can understand what you say about the KEF Sub, I have the PSW2500 (got it for a bargain £239 from Technosound after they pricematched with PRC Direct), lovely piece of kit, and is basically a reskinned 2010 but the cylinder shape helps it to be a bit more tuneful with music.

Have you thought about the PSW3000? It is a little bit more expensive, but at least it is a cubed shape. And don't forget about about the Mordaunt Short MS909W, lovely sub, with lots of grunt, can be had for about £399. The B&W ASW675 is a masterful sub, but at £600, is a tad expensive, if you can afford it though, it is a great sub...............I'll leave it 5 mins before the SVS brigade start banging their drums

 

I think you'll find that the "SVS brigade" read the question properly.

 

Thanks Guys. Good info.

Nimby - I was afraid someone was going to say that - i.e. I needed to spend a lot more. You may be right but when I had the demo in Sevenoaks they used an Arcam pre/power combo and some fairly hefty Monitor Audio speakers to try and replicate as closely as possible my environment. Ok not as good as my own setup but pretty reasonable. I still found the Kef (especially) added a lot to the proceedings.

I've taken a look at the SVS 25-31PCi and I reckon I could accomodate it - the actual footprint is not hugely bigger than some of the box Subs we've discussed. Question: Can I place right up flush to the walls in the corner of my room. If I can it could be a possibility.

The B&W looks nice - and whilst I could spend that if I wanted - I didn't really wanna shell out that much. Is the 25-31PCi better?
Question: What's the total cost incl all delivery charges of the 25-31 PCi?

Lastly the BK SLX200 - significantly cheaper than the above two - is it significantly outclassed by them? Or is there a real chance it could add value to my system. I presume it would compare very favourably with the Kef 2010 considering people on here seem to be rating it higher than the Rel Q150e?

The problem with the BK and the SVS is that I have to buy blind - which I am not used to doing. However if it's recokned that they really are that much better than the competition at their price points - perhaps I can be persuaded to take a leap of faith !

Your further thoughts / comments / insights appreciated. Thanks for what you've fed back so far !

Damian

 

It should be about £450 delivered and all taxes paid.

It will work in a corner but if you can pull it out even a few inches, so much the better. I haven't heard this model but would be very surprised if it wasn't significantly better than the B&W.

 

Had my BK a couple of days now and I would say it has more impact than the Q100 that I had before. You could try ringing them as they told me if I wasn't happy I could return it as long as in as new condition.

Good luck whatever you choose

 

I've had the svs 25-31 PCi and the B&W ASW675 and I think the SVS just wins it for its bigger sounding bass, but the B&W is tighter.
I can reccomend both, but if I were going to buy one of the two again I would go for the svs.

 

Vickers will sell the PSW2010 seperately: http://www.vickers-hifi.co.uk/retail/subwoofers.html

Try there. I've never used them, but they appear to be quite professional, don't know if others here have experience of them?

 

Thanks Kazman though I'm almost 100% convinced to giving the SVS dustbin (smallest iteration) a try - so many people can't be wrong can they? Also as the customer service is top notch - I guess it's worth the risk.

I presume they are fairly reliable - anyone had any problems?

Damian

 

mate of mine was by today puttering about with my hifi again ...

brought his q200e with, side by side blindfolded test (3 of 5 times/tests) he stated he preferred "his sub" which was actually my XLS200

 

I think that we have had one busted driver and one amp DOA so far out of about 50 sold to forum members.

Both were replaced straight away and were fairly easy to fit.

 

Thanks Ian - pretty good record then.

However, in a slight change of heart I think I am going to order the BK XLS 200.

Reasons?

1) It's £200 cheaper
2) From what I have read here - it is capable of providing significant speed, depth and slam to rooms bigger than mine
3) it's eaiser to house
4) Had a chat with BK and they said they can't see why it won't be just fine in the scenario I described to them
4) I can send it back easily if I don't get on with it !!

If I have to action number 4) - then I'll go for the SVS afterwards.
I am inclined to think that I will be happy with it though (based on being quite impressed with the Kef PSW2010) so let's see.

Thanks to everyone for your help with my first entry into the AVFORUMS !

Cheers,

Damian

 

snaxo - more than welcome to pop by my place to witness the BK in situ if interested/worth the journey ...

 

Thanks for the offer Chachi - very kind of you

However, I've ordered it now so I guess I might as well wait and see anyhow !!!

Got a mail back saying two weeks lead time (I can live with that)

I saw on one thread that it might be worth changing the power cable? To a Mark Grant one? (or did I mis-read that) - couldn't see any Power cables in the power buy forum??

Cheers,

Damian

 

dunno about the cables that came with from BK, I just went with the ones I had been using with the REL from before (shrug)

 

You'll be very pleased with it (I've got one).

I've found that it's worth replacing both the power lead and the interconnect as those supplied don't do the electronics justice. I built my own (really easy, just check out the DIY forum).

Replacing the mains lead lowered the noise floor on mine, replacing the interconnect improved sensitivity to the input and generally brought the sound together better. I was really pleased with it using the original leads before I got my soldering iron out though.

 

Cheers eviljohn - tho DIY cable making - i'd need very clear instructions as I'm the worlds most hopeless DIY person. I can screw up putting up a picture !

In terms of the interconnect I've already got a QED Quontour MP-SW - presume that would be ok?

Damian

 

I'm terrible at DIY as well, but it can be quite fun.
I cobbled together one of these:
http://imageevent.com/sidandcoke/sidsposhpowercord
Although I havn't used any braid to cover it because the stuff I ordered was a millimetre too small
The other difference with mine was that I snipped the retaining lugs of my toughplug so the cable fits in but is still retained.

 

You can quite easily put together a Lo-rad mains cable yourself and save a bundle over their pre-made one. If you choose the non-Supra connectors the total price for a 1m length is less than 20 quid.

http://www.supradirect.co.uk/shop/enter.html

Here is another source for the cable (you can source an MK plug from B&Q):

http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/product.asp?id=733

and instructions for assembly (01/05/02 - LoRad Safety Advice Document):

http://www.supradirect.co.uk/products/info.htm

Enjoy!

 

If you're really not up to any DIY cables, then I'd suggest just nipping down to B&Q, getting some thick cable, a toughplug and an IEC plug and doing it yourself.

Anybody can wire a plug

If you're really stuck though then decent power cables aren't hard to come by, just very overpriced IMO.

 

Cheers Grinder - I thinK I could actually manage that !!

All - re: the BK Sub, on the order page on the website there are accessories listed at the bottom of the page. Do these actually come with the Sub as standard or do they need to be ordered? I ask as I can't see how to order them online.

I'm thinking I will need the spikes at least.

Damian

 

You get them all with the sub!

Make sure you order the correct length of cable depending on your probable placement of the sub. You can also try it out on your amp/receiver if it has an IEC connector. It's a definate improvement over standard cables (smooth, natural and detailed sound).

 

They all come with the sub so you needn't worry. You also get the amplifier panel's instruction leaflet and a receipt