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Another Sub Query - Rel Q100e

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Buckster, Jan 10, 2004.

  1. Buckster

    Buckster
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    I'm considering a new subwoofer - and 2 in my hot list are a 2nd hand Q100e OR a BK XLS200 - now without being able to listen to either to compare I'm struggling.

    Would these 2 subs be fairly comparable ?

    The REL Q100e seems a bit bigger and bigger than the preset REL Q200e etc - and has a 12 inch front firing unit - but then only has a 100W Amplifier.

    The XLS200 is smaller, smaller drive unit and has a more powerful amplfiier ?

    The price for both is very similar - any advice will be appreciated

    Thanks, Mark.
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The output of the amplifier is irrelevant on it's own as it is only a part of the overall design package and shouldn't be taken in isolation.

    Both subs are excellent and much depends on the price that you are being asked to pay as the BK is a much newer sub
     
  3. Buckster

    Buckster
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    Thats Ian - I've seen the RELs go for around 250-270 2nd hand and the XLS 280 ish. I thought the amplifier wouldn't make that much of a difference- especially in the mid-size room we have. Just wondered if the REL was that much better (does the 12 inch driver much difference) - to be worth paying the same 2nd hand as a brand new XLS200.

    Thanks again, Mark.
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    At the prices that you mention I would probably go for a brand new BK. Unlike many other subs in that price range it uses a quality driver and amplifier and is only that price as it's sold direct and cuts oout the middleman's big slice.

    I think that a REL Q100 whilst still hugely desirable is getting on a bit and £270 is more than I would pay for one.
     
  5. Buckster

    Buckster
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    Thanks- I had a feeling a BK would be the one to go for - especially since their factory/location is only 10 miles away from me.

    Spoke to them the other day and their 300W version will be out later in the year - but they haven't built the prototype yet - think I'll just go for the standard XLS200 when they become available.

    Thanks, Mark.
     
  6. MuFu

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    I went from one to the other (well, to an XLS-10 which is pretty similar). I was happy with the Q100E but wanted something smaller.

    Having said that, the XLS200 is not quite as good a performer as the XLS-10. There was a mint Q100E on loot.com a few weeks ago for £175. Bargain. :p

    MuFu.
     
  7. Buckster

    Buckster
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    The XLS-10 was a sub made by BK before the XLS200 ?

    At the moment its looking like a XLS200 or a 2nd hand REL Storm.

    Had a listen to a Q201e and REL Storm today and was impressed by both - although the Q201 did sound a little overblown - but may have been just the volume set too high on it.

    Mark.
     
  8. Buckster

    Buckster
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    My limit really is 400-450 pounds - so if anyone can recommend anything else - mainly interested in it for movies. I was originally only considering downward firing subs but I've changed my mind and I'm now not fussed.

    Thanks, Mark.
     
  9. MuFu

    MuFu
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    Yep.

    [​IMG]

    Nice sub. :smashin:

    MuFu.
     
  10. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I've had a couple of REL Storms and they are truly excellent subs, especially if you listen to music at all.

    Older ones do go for £200 - £250 on the forum but I haven't seen any for a while. At those prices the Storm is unbeatable
     
  11. Buckster

    Buckster
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    Ian, since you seem to know lots about the Storms and I can't find much info on REL + others sites - could you just tell me the basic stats of the 3 ? models ?

    I know there was a Storm I - Storm II ? and I know about the Storm III.

    I've seen adverts stating Storm I with Storm II amplifier upgrade so presume that Storm II was very similar but with a beefier amp ? Take it the Storm I is still a great sub ?

    I have seen a REL Stentor II for sale on another forum for a reasonble price (270) but was thinking its more orientated towards music than H. Cinema ? And was slightly put off by the 60W amp -although I know the amplification power doesn't really mean much.

    Mufu- I presume BK won't be remaking the XLS10 ? I know they're bringing out a new model with a 300W amp and different driver in the same footprint as the XLS200 but they don't have a date for when it will be on sale.

    The help you're giving me is much appreciated.

    Mark.
     
  12. Buckster

    Buckster
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    ps: Funny phone call with Richersounds "stock" line:

    Do you have any remainder stock of Paradigm subs - in particular PSW2200s ? Richers: No - sorry - we've had major problems getting stock from Paradigm - let me just have a look on Paradigms website and see who the stockists are in the UK ... .......... Oh - its us !

    Mark.
     
  13. MuFu

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    No I dont think so. It was a limited run to clear some enclosures and drive units that were over-stocked for a private contract. I think only a handful were made. A shame because the chamfered edges look great and performance is extremely good for a 35cm cube. Plus they were £250!!! :eek:

    Same footprint, huh? That's good to know. Hopefully it won't be 6ft tall. :D

    LOL. Best of luck with your search - unfortunately £400-£450 is currently a bit of a dead spot as far as new subs go. Keep an eye on the classifieds - you might be able to pick up a B&W ASW675 or Servo-15 in that price range if you're lucky.

    MuFu.
     
  14. Ian J

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    To tell you the truth I can't remember the difference between the Storm One and Three (for some reason there was no Two) but assume that it was at least a beefier amp.

    I originally had a very early mark one version with XLR inputs only and this was a tremendous sub. I upgraded to the mark three purely because it was available in wood finishes which my wife preferred but I honestly couldn't tell any difference in the sound quality.

    A Stentor 2 had a 200 watt amp and was for sale at £1,900 so if you have found one for £270 in reasonable condition I'd bite his arm off.

    The Rel ST range of subs don't need the huge amps that some makers use as the enclosures are much larger. In general the smaller the enclosure, the larger the amp that is needed.
     
  15. munkay

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    I was making the exact same decision as you at the end of last month. Almost bought a q100 too but found out BK had one XLS left so got it instead.

    Apparently the BK is more comparable to the q200 so I wouldn't worry about it being less powerful than the 100 or whatever. Mine certainly has more than enough power in a 24x18x13 room.

    Build quality is very very good too. And (have posted this already in another thread) it seems to be exaclty the same components/build as this: http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/Subwoofers/Ruark/RuarkVita200.php

    which sold for £850.

    Have a look at the two pictures - seems to be the same cabinet too

    Ruark:
    (Can't link direct to photo)

    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/Subwoofers/Ruark/RuarkVita200_panel.jpg

    BK:
    [​IMG]
     
  16. mrmajestic

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    More power doesn't always mean more bass, but it does help with control.

    A sealed subwoofer will give more control than a ported design but not as much bass.

    A floor firing sub will produce less bass than a forward firing one as the sound wave hasn't the space to develop. Can sound better though.

    That's all a bit general, but something to consider. :)
     
  17. Buckster

    Buckster
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    Yes - 450 ish pounds really is in "no-mans" sub land isn't it !

    I'm thinking power isn't too much of an issue as I'd more appreciate deep sub-bass at lower volumes than huge volumes as I do have a neighbour after all.

    Ian - I made a mistake I really meant Strata II not Stentor II - quite a difference between the two !

    MrMajestic - theres some good tips there -ta.

    Mufu - 250 pounds --- Bargain or what for that XLS10 Sub.

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  18. micb3rd

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    I would tend to say those are far too general and don't realy ring much truth at all.

    More power will give greater SPL unless the subwoofer driver inquestion is right on its x-max or powerhanding limits.]

    But as Ian J hinted on erlier, different subwoofers have different efficencies both in driver and enclosure design. Also don't forget amplifiers are not created or rated equal....

    As for sealed subwoofer VS ported subwoofer it is all in the specific driver and enclosure design.

    A well tuned ported design could easly beat in SQ a poorly designed high Q (Qtc 0.95) sealed subwoofer.

    The same way as a low Q (Qtc 0.55) sealed could easly beat a awful high tuned (50 hz ;-) ) and ported enclosure.

    Not all ported and sealed subwoofers are created equal......

    As for for front firing VS down firing what you said is not correct it is again dependent on design and subwoofer usage.

    Remember bass wavelenths are very long e.g. 80hz = 4.2 meters long and 20 hz = 17.1 meters long.
     
  19. Buckster

    Buckster
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    At the moment I'm heavily leaning towards a REL Strata II 2nd hand for 250 ish - the other option would be the BK XLS200.

    I'm presuming the REL will be a better Sub - although please tell me if I'm wrong !

    Mark.
     
  20. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I don't think that you are wrong but you can see for yourself what Home Cinema Choice thought of it here
     
  21. mrmajestic

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  22. micb3rd

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    No not true at all, subwoofer drivers (with there Thiele and Small pramaters) are not created equal.

    Some drivers work well in Vented allignements but not Sealed alignement, some drivers work well in Sealed alignments but not Vented alignement, some drivers work well in both Vented and Sealed alignements.


    Many many manufactured subwoofer enclosures are designed and implemented with a very limited cost to the manufactuer. Quite a lot subwoofers do not provide proper decent internal bracing.

    If you look at the market there are loads of small woofer, high tuned small enclosure vented subwoofers out there.
     
  23. micb3rd

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    At very low frequencies it makes very little difference.

    It is more a matter of subwoofer design execution than one method being better than another.

    One advantage of a downfiring sub is that upper harmonics (distortion) are more directional in nature.

    By downfiring a subwopofer, these harmonics may not be heard as easily as if the sub were front firing.

    But there are disadvantages not all drivers are made for a down firing configuration.
     
  24. Buckster

    Buckster
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    Well I in the end have gone for a 2nd hand Strata II instead of a XLS200 so I hope I've made the right choice.

    Thanks to all, Mark.
     

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