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Another PhilipsPW6006 Question

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Jimmi, Oct 8, 2002.

  1. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    After successfully screwing up my previous set when using the service menu, I've had to get a replacement.
    My old Philips set had perfect 4:3 vertical geometry but quite poor WS 2.35:1 Horizontal geometry (which I tried to fix hence the whole screwing up thing).
    I've got a replacement set however, this new set has noticably worse 4:3 vertical geometry than the previous set and still has the same poor WS Horizontal geometry. I was better off with my old set (typical !).
    Im now gonna have to head back into the service menu to try and improve the 4:3 geometry. While it doesnt bother me when watching 4:3 TV programs, when watching WS films door frames and objects in the background which should appear vertically straight bend inwards, so this needs correcting.
    What I need to do is bend the sides outward slightly at the top and bottom, however I cant remember which settings have to be changed to do this and Im reluctant to mess about with all the settings until I find the right one because last time the whole set went kaboom!.
    So can someone help me out with which settings I need to change to alter the top and bottom virtical sides in 4:3 mode ?.
    As I have no idea why my set went crazy last time I entered the service menu Im not looking forward to this at all. Any advice as to what could have gone wrong and how to avoid it from happening again would be nice.
    Really wish I'd kept my old set and left it alone now. :(
     
  2. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    The PW6006 goes crazy if you attempt to alter the EWW or EWP settings whilst not in Widescreen mode.

    Everything else in the horizontal/vertical service menu mode can be mucked around with in 4:3 mode, but put the TV in Widescreen mode to alter EWW or EWP (or else your TV won't be happy).

    EWW = East-West Width
    EWP = East-West Parabola

    I think that it might be EWP that needs adjusting to help sort your current geometry issue (although I've never had perfect verticals on my PW6006).

    It is possible to adjust EWW & EWP in 4:3 mode, it's just very convoluted (eg if you want to set EWP in 4:3 mode you need to take 2 off the number you want to set. eg if you want it to be 23 then set it to 21 before you close the service menu)

    Just read all of this thread (pages 4 & 5 especially) from back to front and you'll be up there with the best of us "Oh god I've screwed my PW6006 geometry" club members" :D


    Cheers
    John
     
  3. tom-m

    tom-m
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    Remember that anything you adjust in widescreen mode will affect all other settings, including 4:3 mode.

    This one fault of the service menu is an absoulute pain, and prevents you from achieving geometry perfection....... unless, anyone knows differently?

    tom (service menu club member ;) )
     
  4. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Erm, OK.
    The strange thing is that sometimes my left and right geometry can look pretty much straight and then it kind of bends in at the top and bottom slightly creating a goldfish bowl effect. In other words the virtical lines at the left and right move in and out from time to time.
    This never happened on my old TV set, so Im really annoyed that I've changed my less then perfect set and got it replaced with one thats worse. Personally I think this is down to who ever set up the TV to begin with. I found on my previous set that the smaller the virtical length on the screen, the harder it becomes to get straight geometry down the left and right sides. Basically because the image is being squashed from top to bottom slightly.

    Still, I really need to change the virtical lines at the left and right because at the moment my TV in 4:3 looks more like "( )", than "[ ]". ;)

    Thing is Im scared to mess about with it, especailly as your saying it has to be altered in WS mode. How do you alter the bends at the left and right sides of the screen when the far sides are off screen when in WS mode ?. and how do I know which settings will alter the top and bottom left and right sides of the screen ?.
    Im also confused about this idea of changing everything by 2 values. Can you explain that ?, does it apply to all settings that your changing ?.
     
  5. tom-m

    tom-m
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    The EWP setting will adjust the top edges, do this when in 4:3 mode, mine is set at 23 but when setting this you would have to set it at 21 before you left the menu.

    LCP should adjust the bottom edges, in 4:3 mode, mine is set at 22, there's no difference of 2 when changing this as it only applies to EWP.

    It's the EWW setting which should 'only' be adjusted in widescreen mode as it widens or narrows the screen area. Adjusting this in 4:3 mode will result in all widescreen modes taking on a 4:3 aspect.

    hope you manage to sort it, as I'm well aware of what you must be going through
    cheers
    tom
     
  6. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Thanks for the help.
    I think Im going to try and live with it for the moment and see how I get on. Im still scared after I ballsed up all the screenmodes on my last set.
    To be honest the geometry isnt terrible, its just ever so slightly annoying. I wouldnt even go as far as to say the top and bottom of the screen bend in, rather the middle buldges out slightly giving what could best be described as a slight goldfish bowl effect. Its not all there all the time though which is what makes it hard to adjust. I can be watching a program with 2 different camrea angles and 1 angle will give close to straight lines while the other angle causes a slight buldge. This Sometimes gives the impression that the screen is expanding and retracting and thats what makes it destracting (and that rhymes). ;)
    But I think I'll see if I can put up with it for the time being rather than take a risk in the service menu. Its just a shame when my last 6006 set had perfect virtical geometry so I know how good it can look when set up correctly. I've always had quite poor 2.35:1 WS geometry though, don't know if thats the same for everybody ?, and I still havent got a clue why NTSC dvds have a bigger screen size than their PAL counterparts (IE smaller black bars at top and bottom).
     
  7. tom-m

    tom-m
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    I think the NTSC issue is due to the 60hz/50hz speed difference as pal runs at 50hz.

    My Samsung player runs pal at 60hz so there is no noticeable difference in size to NTSC, it could therefore be an issue with your player. The widscreen geometry is not perfect on mine but as I watch most tv in 4:3 mode I daren't touch it (though I have tried :rolleyes:)

    Regarding the geometry bulge, the VCP setting can alter this to make the sides bulge in or out. As long as you note the settings down before you adjust anything you maybe able to fix this.

    cheers
    tom
     
  8. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Thanks again for your help.
    Do I need to alter the VCP setting by 2 values again ?, and is it safe to change whilst in 4:3 mode ?.
     
  9. tom-m

    tom-m
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    There seems to be two rules in the service menu that we have found all other settings including VCP can be adjusted in 4:3 mode without any of the following rules:

    1 EWW This must be adjusted in widescreen mode only ( all other settings can be adjusted in 4:3 )

    2 EWP This adjustment only requires you to use the difference of 2 rule.

    Every little adjustment in EWP mode can seem unpredictable unless you follow the rule, e.g if it is set at 24 but you need it at 23, you would have to set it to 21, then after exiting the menu the new value will be 23 (21+2)( this is the only value which does this )

    Take your time and do everything slowly and remember to make notes before you change anything incase things get worse.

    hope this helps
    tom
     
  10. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Brilliant thanks.
    So assuming I leave EWW well alone I shouldnt be able to bugger up all of the screen modes like I did before ?.
    and I take it its a good idea to go through all the settings and jot down all the original values (both horizontal and virtical) before I decide to start changing anything ?.
     
  11. tom-m

    tom-m
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    Yes write down all settings, because if things get worse you can always return to where you started, and then begin again.

    cheers
    tom
     
  12. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    I've been able to put up with it ok so far so I havent bothered fiddling with the service menu. The lines are pretty straight 95% of the time, I think I was spoiled by my last 6006.;)
    One thing I an baffled by though is that I seem to get noticabley poorer image quality when watching NTSC dvds than PAL.
    Does the 6006 out put NTSC or does it convert NTSC signals into PAL ?.
     
  13. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    NTSC 3.58/4.43MHz compatible.
     
  14. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Hmmm,
    Its just I get a noticabley poor image when I watch NTSC dvds (bad contrast, bright reds, poor felshtones etc).
    If I set my dvd player to convert NTSC to PAL then the problem goes away.:confused:

    Also, all my NTSC dvds with an aspect ratio of 1.85:1 seem to suffer from this bizarre fault where the far left and right side of the screen seems to have a divit, any information in between the two divits bend drastically to the left and to the right, IE the left side of the screen bends to the left and the right side bends to the right.
    This picture below gives a rough example -
    [​IMG]

    [The Star Wars:EP2 pic is just an example because I can't take screen grabs of the real thing. Im not watching bootlegged dvds.]
    You can't see the bends when in WS mode because there off screen, but you can see the bending effect caused. If you change to 4:3 screenmode then you can see the bends at both sides.
    This problem doesnt happen on PAL dvds, only NTSC. :confused: :confused:

    Any help on either issue would be great because Im well confused !.
     
  15. tom-m

    tom-m
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    Regarding the colour issue, faces and reds in general are a lot more different in NTSC mode, as the PAL colour signal seems a lot more calmer.

    The only noticeable geometry difference I can see on mine is that NTSC pictures seem slightly positioned more to the right of the screen, but thats the only difference I can see regarding geometry/position.

    cheers
    tom
     
  16. jammods

    jammods
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    I have the verticals bending problem on my 6515 the engineers coming on Saturday to look at it so I'll let you know.
     
  17. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Apart from that,how good is it and what faults has it got?
     
  18. jammods

    jammods
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    Wayne I assume you want feedback on the 6515?, the thread started as a 6006 topic thats all - dont want to confuse anyone.....here goes.


    Its difficult for me to say as my previous TV was a 14" portable.

    However the sound is excellent the virtual dolby is a good compromise if you havent the budget for a full setup.

    The picture is excellent regarding colour etc its just the annoying bends which I cant live with and it will go back if they dont get sorted.

    And for what its worth I think it is the most aesthetically pleasing TV for the money at the moment.

    The Warnings are all over the forum though, dont buy one, if you do check the picture b4 you take it home.

    I ignored the warnings and have the hassles now
     
  19. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    jammods.

    Have you only got geometry problems?
     
  20. jammods

    jammods
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    OK the engineers been, took one look at, didnt fancy his chances of improving it cause in his words it had "very poor geometry". So its going back and I have a refund and the fun starts again looking for a replacement
     
  21. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    Did he or you have a go at the engineers menu?

    Mine comes Tuesday.

    :eek:
     
  22. jammods

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    No I didnt, and he didnt he said it was too bad, which is a shame cause I did like the set.

    Gonna see what else is about quite like the look of the JVC'S
     
  23. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    I did go and look at loads of flat screens,Philips etc,in the shops and they were all all right geometry wise,as was my last Sony.
     
  24. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Have you tried playing with the Hue setting on the Picture menu on the PW6006 (this option only appears when in NTSC mode). It can adjust colour balances quite a bit.

    Alternatively, why not just stick with the NTSC->PAL conversion? :)
    Could be that it's your DVD player that's not too hot at outputting NTSC. My PW6006 is perfectly happy with NTSC DVDs and NTSC videogame conosoles.
     
  25. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    I've searched for the 'Hue' setting and can't find it anywhere, are you sure it exists on the 6006 ?.
    I put on an NTSC dvd and went into the picture menu but I couldnt find anything called 'Hue'.
    When you say your PW6006 is perfectly happy with NTSC DVDs do you mean it just plays them without needing to alter anything in regards to the picture ?. If so can I ask what your picture settings are please ?.
     
  26. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    Yup, I definitely get a Hue option on my PW6006. It could be on the Features menu, but I'm more or less certain it's on the Picture menu. Just to stress again, it's only there when running in NTSC (not PAL or PAL60), so make sure your DVD player is outputting proper NTSC. If you don't get the Hue option then maybe your DVD player can't do proper NTSC, explaining the quality problem.

    As for defaults, I'm at work right now so can't check but think they're something like this.

    Brightness 51
    Colour 43
    Contrast 61
    Sharpness 71

    Cheers
    John
     
  27. tom-m

    tom-m
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    Could the setting you're looking for be 'tint' rather than hue, as it changes from colour temp to tint when using NTSC material (on the 32" version anyway).

    tom
     
  28. John Jennings

    John Jennings
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    You're probably right Tom, it's definitely got the ring of truth about it. Hmm, must remove foot from mouth. Sorry :blush:

    Monday mornings.... :confused:
     
  29. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Aha, Tint.
    I get that as an option in the picture menu.
    I'll give it a go later, thanks guys.
     
  30. Jimmi

    Jimmi
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    Just tried the tint option & it doesnt seem to do a great deal.
    I've used my dvd player on 3 different TV sets all of which displayed NTSC with no problems.
    When I adjust the picture settings I can improve the problem quite a bit mainly by dropping the colour and raising the brightness. It's not an ideal solution because Im currently having to change picture settings back and forth between NTSC and PAL sources.
    Does anyone else find this or does the picture look exactly the same for both NTSC and PAL without having to make alterations to the picture settings ?.
    The dvd player is connected via the RGB port using a scart to scart lead, Im wondering if Im experiencing one of the many quirks which were/are linked to the famous RGB socket on the 6006 ?!.
    Between this issue and the sloping vertical geometry problem Im really beginning to regret buying the Philips set to be honest.
    My first WS set was a no brand supermarket cheapo and in some ways it was better than this award winning TV set.
     

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