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Another OLED Burn in Problem....

5to1

Well-known Member
If you buy a decent LCD with a VA panel they get pretty close.

In many ways I prefer my Sony XE90 and XF90 over my OLED.

Don't get me wrong, I can really appreciate what an OLED does well, those tricky scenes with dark and light at the same time, and I definitely think HDR is far better on OLED, but I could live without HDR and 90% of my viewing the Sony tends to look sharper, have better motion and just has a nicer image.

I wouldn't buy some LG IPS panel LCD though!
I bought one of the Samsung QLEDs before xmas, Q70, that was awful, blacks were far worse than my XE90, hence buying an XF90.
I got an XG first, but that was far worse than my XE, so returned it and picked up an XF90, which is exactly the same as the XE, just menus a bit quicker and it seems to go a bit brighter.

So I would happily live without an OLED.
In fact I will probably grab a Q9FN used when one pops up at the right price and give it a try, the one I saw looked great.
I think size, field of view and viewing angles are other important considerations.

If you're sitting quite central viewing angles may not matter. But VA panels do suffer off axis.

Also if you're going 65" then 500 zones that a typical FALD set has start to look quite big in terms of controlling Halos and other artefacts. This is especially true if you're sitting close in order to be within the THX FOV.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
Good point.

My Sony sets are 49", friend with the 65XE9405 I find no where near as good.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
Follow up from above.
My wife and I were talking and I think we are at the point where after we get the new screen...we may sell it as a perfect OLED TV and use the money for an LED. I mean....honestly my old eyes probably won't notice too much. My parents live in an apartment on my property and they just got a 55 inch LG LED for $450 and the picture looks damn good for normal viewing. What do you all think?
Last night I watched a LG 55UK6500 IPS TV at my son and laws house in a dimly lit room. The TV looked very good.

Reliability, viewing angle, and cost are the main differences between most TVs. Especially if you don’t game or watch your TV in a dark room. If you don’t study the differences between TVs you would have a hard time noticing the differences between the 55UK6500, low cost TV, and the high end TVs.

Rtings.com in their Best TV reviews says, “Be careful not to get to caught up in the details. While no TV is perfect, most TVs are great enough to please almost everyone, and the differences are often not noticeable unless you really look for them.”

So why do we always want that new TV? Because marketers make us think we need more.
“We must shift America/Europe from a needs to a desires culture…. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old had been entirely consumed. We must share a new mentality. Man’s desires must overshadow his needs.”
Jeremy Lent (A Wall Street Banker) from A Patterning Instinct
 
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staffy 2

Active Member
I got my friend a Samsung 7100 58 inch lcd and set it up.It actually blew me away the image it produced,Is OLED worth the extra,At £2999 I’d say no but my E7 was £1499 for a 55 inch and at that price yes it’s worth it.
 

Homeby51

Member
BTW guys....look at my burn in on post #86. Do you notice that the mute symbol is burned in? Can you believe it? I mean....i may hit the mute button once a week when the phone rings or for some other reason but definitely not a lot. That tells me that these screens will burn in with very little time of a static image. Not an extended amount of time like we are told.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
BTW guys....look at my burn in on post #86. Do you notice that the mute symbol is burned in? Can you believe it? I mean....i may hit the mute button once a week when the phone rings or for some other reason but definitely not a lot. That tells me that these screens will burn in with very little time of a static image. Not an extended amount of time like we are told.
Getting a little out of control. We get your point.
 
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LGSAM

Active Member
BTW guys....look at my burn in on post #86. Do you notice that the mute symbol is burned in? Can you believe it? I mean....i may hit the mute button once a week when the phone rings or for some other reason but definitely not a lot. That tells me that these screens will burn in with very little time of a static image. Not an extended amount of time like we are told.
Its hard to explain burn from something so short term as the mute symbol , my Oled has been exposed to this morning show for around 2 to 3 hours every morning and has over 8000hrs on it and no burn in . Not saying it wont happen .9now.jpg
 

Homeby51

Member
Getting a little out of control. We get your point.
How? It's a valid point that dispels the notion that burn in only happens if you have a static image displayed for multiple hours at a time....day after day. Apparently it happens from the display navigating LG's built in controls. IMO....this show just how susceptible these displays are to experiencing burn in.
 

5to1

Well-known Member
How? It's a valid point that dispels the notion that burn in only happens if you have a static image displayed for multiple hours at a time....day after day. Apparently it happens from the display navigating LG's built in controls. IMO....this show just how susceptible these displays are to experiencing burn in.
It shows how susceptible your particular display was. Without further statistically significant sample data it doesn't show anything else.

You're drawing conclusions on the basis of meagre evidence. I once had a PSU failure on a TV in the first day, I didn't conclude from that every other TV of the same model was susceptible to PSU failure within a day.
 

Robothamster

Distinguished Member
Interesting test video:


Guys on here that have has burn-in issues, do you leave on standby as suggested towards the end of this video?
 

5to1

Well-known Member
Interesting test video:


Guys on here that have has burn-in issues, do you leave on standby as suggested towards the end of this video?
Yes people on other threads have confirmed they leave it on standby so it can run the compensation cycle. I don't think the issue is related to that. I'm pretty sure someone who had a repair mentioned thats one of the metrics LG check before replacing the screen.
 

Scholesy

Active Member
Thought I would post an update. LG called me and immediately said they would cover my repairs, free of charge even though they say my burn in is not covered under warranty. I didn't have to argue or push at all. They simply gave it up right off.
First, I am happy with their customer service and their concession to repair my 2 year old, out of warranty screen. But...that says to me that they must know this burn in is a problem. I hope they treat everyone the same.
Second...and last, I am very worried about this simply happening again in the next two years. Let me ask....will the repair include some sort of software upgrade that will prevent this from happening again? If not, I am tempted to sell it as soon as it is fixed and simply but an LED again. I know the picture may not be as good but to my eyes and viewing room....it will still be damn good.
You were lucky, LG flatly refused to replace my panel, took on average 5-10 days to respond to emails and never rang me back when I first contacted them and was told they’d call me back the next day, I rang back the next day close to closing time for their customer service department and was again told they’d call me the next day - which also never happened. They didn’t respond to my questions regarding why it mostly seems to be the Red pixels that wear out first if this is a User causes issue.

Luckily RS have offered to help, but LG are an absolute disgrace in the way they’ve handled my issues - and it seems others too.

Those of you without issues on your OLED and Implying this has been caused by ourselves, there are now enough examples to say that isn’t the case.
 

Scholesy

Active Member
I’m also not going to put much stock in those performing burn in tests who have a reason to keep on a manufacturers good side either. The public are doing the testing and the results are on here and YouTube for everyone to see.
 

Doctor Smith

Well-known Member
My burn in started to appear about 18 months after purchase. So the newer models may be affected but its to early to tell at the minute.
 

LGSAM

Active Member
I’m also not going to put much stock in those performing burn in tests who have a reason to keep on a manufacturers good side either. The public are doing the testing and the results are on here and YouTube for everyone to see.
I wouldn't take these tests as gospel either but at least they state what their picture settings are and the type of content viewed which can be helpful to others who are trying to prevent burn in .
 

foxxes

Active Member
You were lucky, LG flatly refused to replace my panel, took on average 5-10 days to respond to emails and never rang me back when I first contacted them and was told they’d call me back the next day, I rang back the next day close to closing time for their customer service department and was again told they’d call me the next day - which also never happened. They didn’t respond to my questions regarding why it mostly seems to be the Red pixels that wear out first if this is a User causes issue.

Luckily RS have offered to help, but LG are an absolute disgrace in the way they’ve handled my issues - and it seems others too.

Those of you without issues on your OLED and Implying this has been caused by ourselves, there are now enough examples to say that isn’t the case.
Are RS going to replace the screen free of charge? I'm in a similar situation, is there anything in particular you said that got them to help you out? Thanks.
 

Scholesy

Active Member
I wouldn't take these tests as gospel either but at least they state what their picture settings are and the type of content viewed which can be helpful to others who are trying to prevent burn in .
Yeah agreed, I was aiming my comment more at those who were using RTings and Vincent Teoh’s tests as proof those affected have somehow ‘abused’ their sets.
 

Homeby51

Member
It shows how susceptible your particular display was. Without further statistically significant sample data it doesn't show anything else.

You're drawing conclusions on the basis of meagre evidence. I once had a PSU failure on a TV in the first day, I didn't conclude from that every other TV of the same model was susceptible to PSU failure within a day.
I'm not offering a scientific study result....and BTW....neither are you. I am on a public forum and I am offering others my opinion based on real world experience and reading others experience. I am doing my best to warn others of my experience and IMO....let others know they may be in danger too.
But since you brought it up...tell how my screen would be a "one off" or a rare inferior product when all of the screens are built from the same manufacturing process to the same specs by robots? Are saying my substrate is inferior? My organic film wasn't sprayed on correctly? The evaporation process was faulty? Or anything else? IMO....those issues would have been noticeable right away. Not after two years. The more logical conclusion is that all of these screens are just as susceptible as another.
Also.....your comparison of an OLED screen to a faulty power supply is not a good example because power supplies have hardwired circuits that could fail when others may not. Cold soldered joints, etc....
 

5to1

Well-known Member
I'm not offering a scientific study result....and BTW....neither are you. I am on a public forum and I am offering others my opinion based on real world experience and reading others experience. I am doing my best to warn others of my experience and IMO....let others know they may be in danger too.
But since you brought it up...tell how my screen would be a "one off" or a rare inferior product when all of the screens are built from the same manufacturing process to the same specs by robots? Are saying my substrate is inferior? My organic film wasn't sprayed on correctly? The evaporation process was faulty? Or anything else? IMO....those issues would have been noticeable right away. Not after two years. The more logical conclusion is that all of these screens are just as susceptible as another.
Also.....your comparison of an OLED screen to a faulty power supply is not a good example because power supplies have hardwired circuits that could fail when others may not. Cold soldered joints, etc....
Well actually I am offering a scientifically sound approach. You are relying on anecdotal evidence based on a meagre sample to draw a sweeping conclusion. I didnt comment wether the conclusion was correct or not, I simply highlighted it is erroneous to draw such conclusions without a statistically significant sample. Do you see the difference, I hope you do now I've clarified?

WRT differences in panels, well if you've seen peoples 5% slides it is clear there are differences between the panels. They don't all roll of the line exactly the same.

Any of the possibilities you've listed could result in a variation in potential for burn in between panels. As could several others, such as compromised OLED material, compromised thermal performance, issues with the array that drives each pixel, etc, etc.

You can go ahead and draw your "logical conclusion" based on your meagre sample if you wish and your belief this a simple product to knock out with every panel running of the line 100% identical.

I think most would agree, it's a complex product. One that Samsung and all the other manufacturers gave up on, due to yields that weren't economically viable. And that your logic is clearly flawed given we aren't inundated with people with burn in. According to your logic, every major manufacturer bar Samsung must be stupid, because they are busy shipping millions of panels that will come back and smack them in the face in 18 months.

Time will tell if your "logical conclusion" is correct wont it? Because there will be millions of burnt in panels very very soon!
 

staffy 2

Active Member
I would say OLEDs are quite delicate tvs.They won’t last 5 years plus with normal use.
Mine went after 2 years with something LG designed to keep the panel uniform and band free.
A lot more people are posting with issues on here and it’s only going to get worse.Lets hope newer panels will have a better life span.
I mean really,don’t watch this don’t watch that don’t leave this on for too long and don’t pause it and now don’t mute it hahaaaa if it wasn’t so funny you’d cry.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
CES 2020 showed that a lot more TV manufacturers are entering the OLED market. I am sure these manufacturers are aware of the different OLED burn in tests and also conduct their own proprietary OLED burn in tests. I don’t know if YouTube or AVForums are used in there decision making process. Somehow the millions of dollars these companies have spent on OLED Burn In research has led them to the conclusion that OLED TVs are reliable. Time will tell if the engineers performing these tests are correct.

Don’t always believe what you think.
 

staffy 2

Active Member
Well show me an OLED after 14 years use with say 80,000 hours veiwing time.This is my old Sony lcd which I gave to my neighbour when I got my E7 and it’s as good as the day I brought it.
Infact it knocked my E7 out the park for reliability as it went wrong after 2 years.Its now great again with a new screen thanks to Peter Tyson and Domestic and General.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
Well show me an OLED after 14 years use with say 80,000 hours veiwing time.This is my old Sony lcd which I gave to my neighbour when I got my E7 and it’s as good as the day I brought it.
Infact it knocked my E7 out the park for reliability as it went wrong after 2 years.Its now great again with a new screen thanks to Peter Tyson and Domestic and General.
Consumer Reports estimates that 20 percent of Hisense and Vizio TVs will experience a problem within the first five years. Does this mean that LED TVs are a bad technology?


There are many LED TVs that have had a short lifetime due to major problems. That doesn't make LED technology bad. Eighty percent of LED Hisense and LED Vizio TVs last longer than five years.
 
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Justwesty

Standard Member
Guys on here that have has burn-in issues, do you leave on standby as suggested towards the end of this video?
This is very important as the TV needs to run this compensation cycle in fact I make sure ours gets switched off a few times per day to ensure this happens.

I have LED ambilights which stay on until cycle is finished so the bride knows not to turn it back on until they go off. Beats her using pause all the time :)
 

Homeby51

Member
Well actually I am offering a scientifically sound approach. You are relying on anecdotal evidence based on a meagre sample to draw a sweeping conclusion. I didnt comment wether the conclusion was correct or not, I simply highlighted it is erroneous to draw such conclusions without a statistically significant sample. Do you see the difference, I hope you do now I've clarified?

WRT differences in panels, well if you've seen peoples 5% slides it is clear there are differences between the panels. They don't all roll of the line exactly the same.

Any of the possibilities you've listed could result in a variation in potential for burn in between panels. As could several others, such as compromised OLED material, compromised thermal performance, issues with the array that drives each pixel, etc, etc.

You can go ahead and draw your "logical conclusion" based on your meagre sample if you wish and your belief this a simple product to knock out with every panel running of the line 100% identical.

I think most would agree, it's a complex product. One that Samsung and all the other manufacturers gave up on, due to yields that weren't economically viable. And that your logic is clearly flawed given we aren't inundated with people with burn in. According to your logic, every major manufacturer bar Samsung must be stupid, because they are busy shipping millions of panels that will come back and smack them in the face in 18 months.

Time will tell if your "logical conclusion" is correct wont it? Because there will be millions of burnt in panels very very soon!
Sorry but IMO that's just BS. Utter BS.....no matter how elegantly put. To assert that my OLED material is compromised and others are not which results in a burn in after two long years....coincidentally the same as many others...is a far stretch. So what happened specifically? The calibration of the substrate sprayer head became out of whack with the exact same uncalibrated measurements as 5% of others? That's statistically almost impossible. Sorry....even though I never worked at an OLED manufacturing plant....I did work as an industrial controls engineer for a good part of my life and from my experience....most solid state processes that rely on any type of cell or organic technology is very, very consistent when it comes to operating life as well as failure rates.
The bottom line is that according to Occams Razor...there is a major problem with burn in when using an OLED screen for television viewing and I believe the more mainstream these become....the more we will hear about the issue unless they fix the current technology. Is it scientific? No....just common sense. Anyway...that's my take and you disagree. But I won't gamble another $2500 on the chance that you are correct.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
Is it scientific? No....just common sense. Anyway...that's my take and you disagree. But I won't gamble another $2500 on the chance that you are correct.
If you have a fear of burn in then a LED TV is definitely the better way to go. Given your past experience and fear of burn in, as a result, that is an excellent choice.

Reliability, viewing angle, and cost are the main differences between most TVs. Especially if you don’t game or watch your TV in a dark room. If you don’t study the differences between TVs you would have a hard time noticing the differences, other than the viewing angle, between the mid range LED TVs and the high end OLED TVs.

Rtings.com in their Best TV reviews says, “Be careful not to get to caught up in the details. While no TV is perfect, most TVs are great enough to please almost everyone, and the differences are often not noticeable unless you really look for them.”

Buy an LED TV and don't look back!!!!
 
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staffy 2

Active Member
Unfortunately Mr Unopinionated once your OLED tv has gone wrong but then fixed with a new panel then it’s not cost effective to change to an lcd tv when you have a perfectly good OLED tv again.Also once you’ve had issues it does make you lose confidence in the technology and do wonder how long the new panel will last.
Its rather flippant of you telling owners not to go with OLED TVs when they are stuck with them after repair.Its an awfull lot of money to lose which most people can’t afford to do by suggesting they go to an lcd tv.
I don’t worry as life’s too short and I very much enjoy my E7 it’s the best tv I’ve ever had but I’m not confident about how long it will last.Certainly not 14 years like my old Sony lcd which my neighbour still has going strong.
 

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