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Another eBay story - disappointed with people in society

woburnx

Active Member
I sold a Yamaha home cinema receiver in September via a best offer. Buyer paid and I sent it off via Parcelforce.

On the day of receipt of the parcel, I get a return request as follows :

"Reason
Arrived damaged
Comments
Arrived very badly damaged. Lots of parts rattling around inside. Big dent on outside of unit. Only fit for scrap. Do you want me to bin it, rather than send it back?Refund please? From Mark"

I asked the buyer to send it back and got this reply :

"Hi, Cheers for getting back so quick. I can send you photos of the damages to it. They really are pretty bad. If you want it back, I will return it to you, but like I said it is only fit for scrap. Once you have seen the photos, you won't want it back. I binned the box it came in, before I discovered it was damaged. I've still got the bubble wrap. From Mark. "

I asked him again to send it back and got this reply :

"Hi, I have taken the case apart, fixed the broken buttons with blu tack and tape. I've had to bend the case back into shape, screw it back on and fix that with tape. Powered on and it looks promising. I've only connected one speaker so far and tested the dab radio, I'm pleased to say I have got sound from it. I'm am still very disappointed that I have had to do all these repairs when I have paid around £100.00 for it. I reckon I deserve at least a partial refund please? Cheers. From Mark. "

My reply :
"Hello Mark After sleeping on the issue, I am not happy about losing anymore money on the receiver. I paid over £300 new. If you think can use it and enjoy it in the condition it is in, then great. Otherwise please return the item and I will take it up with Parcelforce as they have good records of what state the item was in when delivered. After that I will review the case with Ebay. Have a think and let me know and I will formally accept the return. Thanks "

His reply :
"Hi, I have eventually got it all working, so I have decided to keep it. With all the repairs I have done, I don't think it's worth the money that I paid for it. It has obviously been dropped on the floor to cause such damage. I want a partial refund of £40.00 please? I think that is fair. I'm afraid I won't be closing this case till I get my refund. Cheers. From Mark. "

I have approved the return request and sent him a return label. He hasn't sent the item back yet.

I have reported him to eBay as well. But what I don't want is eBay to automatically refund the paypal money as I will have lost out in every way.

This is my first experience with these type of people. Any suggestions? Is it worth phoning eBay as the online help won't let me progress any further.
 

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
Pretty clear case of the buyer chancing his arm. Seeking full refund, then varying degrees of partial whilst refusing to follow return procedure.

And yet I'd be pretty sure eBay/PayPal will take his side.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
OP - you should've used the Classifieds on here!

Bad jokes aside, you've been terribly unlucky to have found a crap Buyer; I presume his feedback is pretty immaculate?

What you've described is probably the worst aspect of Ebay: that they pretty much always take the Buyer's side, even if it's all just a bunch of BS. You've got nothing to lose by calling them and seeing what they say, especially as you've already reported his dubious actions.

But unless they've changed their trading policies, I wouldn't hold out much hope for a resolution in your favour, alas. They don't mediate nor get involved quite like the Mods do on here.

For a start, you would expect someone to provide photographic evidence of the damaged packing that (allegedly) caused the condition they claim. You would also expect additional photos of the unit at the time it was delivered to back up a case for a partial refund.

Neither Ebay nor Paypal seem to be so rigorous in their approach towards disputes, so you may have to suck it up and partially refund. Sorry.

I hope maybe other members might have more positive things to say? Please keep us informed as to how you get on.
 
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Wahreo

Distinguished Member
This is what they do on eBay. I had a guy buy an industrial stapler and staplers from me and said it was damaged. The pics he showed me were ridiculous. I even emailed the manufacturer in Chicago with the pics and they said this is normal as they are assembled by hand. The guy essentially used the stapler and staplers for his project and sent it back. All at my cost. That was the last time I’ve used eBay.
 

shoestring25

Well-known Member
The guy is an obvious rip off artist in my experience you will occasionally get an actual ebay person to read the dispute responses (assuming they are on the dispute and not via message) so i would say ring ebay and see if you can get someone to read the dispute.

usually its all automated and they just refund the buyer
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
I’d definitely be willing to take this chancer on. Although eBay usually side with the buyer, in your case he’s clearly taking the p.
Chances are you’re not the first person he’s done this to so all that will be in his record.

If he’s got no photographic evidence of the damage then I don’t see what case you have to answer.

When I was dealing with a moron I actually found eBay pretty helpful when I phoned up (I had to speak to a supervisor who “reviewed” my case)

Make sure you respond to all ebays request for information / deadlines etc..
 

scatterbug

Well-known Member
Only provide a partial refund following provision of clear photographic evidence of the damage he describes. Otherwise, fight.
 

mh123

Active Member
Bet he hasn't ... yet ... until (if) forced to provide photo evidence.

Clearly someone chancing their arm. On the odd occasion I've had stuff delivered in busted packaging I'll go so far as to grab my phone and take photos of the item with the courier standing next to it holding the manifest!

But maybe (just maybe) the packaging looked intact and damage was not evident until it was opened - well who in their right mind would try to effect a repair of any sort without bouncing the issue back to the seller (with photo evidence!)

Problem with this scenario is if you turn up the heat (threaten legal action for instance) all the guy has to do is damage the item in line with the explanation already given and you won't have a leg to stand on.

Best course of action IMO is to try to get eBay to see this for what it is and tell him to sod off. I wouldn't be pressing for a return at this stage because if you do I suspect all you'll get back is a spitefully smashed up pile of parts. Or maybe a brick in box.

Good luck!
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
That what really puts you off selling on ebay let alone getting clobbered on Paypal fees and then Ebay invoice. I do sell on there but very rarely but have some stories I can tell myself....

Sold a Xbox game to a dude who wanted a refund because he would not work, when I facetime him, I found out he placing the disc upside down in the Xbox....................... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Then another was sold some Q Acoustics 1010i bookshelves to another, he reported back when got home that one was not working, facetime again, he connected the speakers correctly but there was only one connection rear of the av receiver.................. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just like you, I sold a receiver (ONKYO) couple of years ago, the dude drove down from Huddersfield to me, 400 mile round trip easy. He watched it all connected up, happy, paid me in cash, jumped in the car and drove off. A week later he send me a message that he wanted a partial refund, I said what for? He replied whilst driving home that day, he was involved in an accident and the receiver was damaged. Apparently he was in hospital for a couple of days.
I replied the machine was all working at the time of purchase, once you left my property it was not my concern, either you throw it in the canal or donated it to ISIS... When he got resolution involved, I argued by case and I won (thank god)

People for you, sad I know.
 

woburnx

Active Member
That is the frustrating bit. He did some blurry photos through but it could be any receiver. Thus I again asked him to send it back.

I am not sure where I stand with the return. I definitely want the item back as I have agreed to the return. My worry is that eBay will refund the money without the item being returned. That will make me really mad with both eBay and the buyer.

There is nothing more I can see from the website that I can do. EBay is not geared to help sellers I thunk. I have already reported him.
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
That is the frustrating bit. He did some blurry photos through but it could be any receiver. Thus I again asked him to send it back.

I am not sure where I stand with the return. I definitely want the item back as I have agreed to the return. My worry is that eBay will refund the money without the item being returned. That will make me really mad with both eBay and the buyer.

There is nothing more I can see from the website that I can do. EBay is not geared to help sellers I thunk. I have already reported him.
Totally agree, sellers get shafted left right and centre and we can't even blame brexit on this one, well we can if we wanted as they're head office is a nice little tax haven somewhere in Luxembourg created by Juncker.

I think they will take the monies off you, you would think your feedback would mean something but its does not and only takes one to ruin it..I will be honest I am afraid to sell anything expensive on there..
 

anlygi

Active Member
I had a similar situation with a Pioneer Bluetooth stereo I removed from my old car before I sold it. Apparently the Bluetooth wasn't connecting, yet it was working perfectly fine before I removed it. Said it might be his phone, checked and insisted it was definitely faulty and wanted a partial refund of a tenner. As it only sold for £50 and cost me a tenner to post it, I just threw the head up and give him it. I know it was fraud because what use is a tenner going to make to a non-working Bluetooth stereo, especially one without a CD player as it was essentially just a radio? The alternative was have him return it at my expense, the same as he was asking for. I also had no means of testing it as I wasn't hacking a brand new car apart and buying a wiring harness to confirm such a low value item was working as I knew it was.

Ebay is full of chancers that know fine rightly what they're at and abuse ebay's policy to favour buyers. It's hurting them though, why else would they be running almost fortnightly £1 FVF promotions?

In my experience it's electronics, especially phones and gaming items, that attract the fraudsters. I sold off a lot of coins from my wife's collection (at her request!) and not one problem. Same with all my UV codes. All my other issues have been with electronics or gaming related items. Had a nightmare with someone claiming their account had been hacked after a PS4 arcade stick I sold was marked as shipped. Thankfully Collect+ stopped it in transit, returned it to me and even refunded to postage cost, top marks to Collect+.

That said, I have sold 2 PS4s without problem on ebay. My original launch console, when my wife bought me a Pro, and my son's old noisy model that was replaced with a Slim I won in a competition here last year. Both resulted in an anxoius wait for 30 days but both honest, happy customers thankfully.
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
I had a similar situation with a Pioneer Bluetooth stereo I removed from my old car before I sold it. Apparently the Bluetooth wasn't connecting, yet it was working perfectly fine before I removed it. Said it might be his phone, checked and insisted it was definitely faulty and wanted a partial refund of a tenner. As it only sold for £50 and cost me a tenner to post it, I just threw the head up and give him it. I know it was fraud because what use is a tenner going to make to a non-working Bluetooth stereo, especially one without a CD player as it was essentially just a radio? The alternative was have him return it at my expense, the same as he was asking for. I also had no means of testing it as I wasn't hacking a brand new car apart and buying a wiring harness to confirm such a low value item was working as I knew it was.

Ebay is full of chancers that know fine rightly what they're at and abuse ebay's policy to favour buyers. It's hurting them though, why else would they be running almost fortnightly £1 FVF promotions?

In my experience it's electronics, especially phones and gaming items, that attract the fraudsters. I sold off a lot of coins from my wife's collection (at her request!) and not one problem. Same with all my UV codes. All my other issues have been with electronics or gaming related items. Had a nightmare with someone claiming their account had been hacked after a PS4 arcade stick I sold was marked as shipped. Thankfully Collect+ stopped it in transit, returned it to me and even refunded to postage cost, top marks to Collect+.

That said, I have sold 2 PS4s without problem on ebay. My original launch console, when my wife bought me a Pro, and my son's old noisy model that was replaced with a Slim I won in a competition here last year. Both resulted in an anxoius wait for 30 days but both honest, happy customers thankfully.
AKA *Suck it and see*
Guess it's all down to luck who you will get on the other end.
 

doubledragonxx

Well-known Member
Personally only use eBay as a last resort now, thing's went quickly downhill in my opinion when they removed the ability for sellers to leave buyers negative feedback. As many have said it's all in the favour of buyer which unfortunately many unscrupulous buggers seem to take advantage of far to often. Although in this case I am not sure if it is that clear cut, no photographic evidence, quickly disposed of the box used for transit before realising it was broken? Surely if that badly damaged he would have noticed straight-away and how did he manage to dispose of the box that quickly that he couldn't retrieve it (I smell BS). Also the fact that they've started their own DIY repairs on it etc... even though you clearly stated to return just sounds all very dubious. I would certainly try calling eBay and explain the situation tbh

I had similar issue when selling a portable dvd player a year back, buyer reported it didn't work properly but asked for a partial refund!?!? It had worked as thoroughly tested before dispatch, decided to call his bluff and asked him to return it and upon receipt and verification that the serial numbers matched what I had photographic evidence of then refund would be made. Funnily enough I never heard from him again. I suspect he'd previously purchased one and it had stopped working and was looking to do the old switcheroo on me.
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
That is the frustrating bit. He did some blurry photos through but it could be any receiver. Thus I again asked him to send it back.

I am not sure where I stand with the return. I definitely want the item back as I have agreed to the return. My worry is that eBay will refund the money without the item being returned. That will make me really mad with both eBay and the buyer.

There is nothing more I can see from the website that I can do. EBay is not geared to help sellers I thunk. I have already reported him.
If you’ve agreed the return then a date will have been set by eBay for you to receive the item back. Usually 3 weeks roughly. He will have been given a return label from eBay which will track the movements of your item. Keep an eye on the date and if you haven’t received back by this point get on the phone and eBay will find in your favour / close the dispute.
 

anlygi

Active Member
AKA *Suck it and see*
Guess it's all down to luck who you will get on the other end.
That's exactly it. I do think the scale of the problem is overblown slightly, there are many more honest brokers than fraudsters in my experience, and it is just luck who you get. As @doubledragonxx said, the problems started when sellers could no longer give buyers negtive feedback. One of the PS4s I sold was to a new user with 0 feeback too. Normally an alarm bell but genuine people have to start somewhere I suppose. Maybe as a business seller you have to write off a certain percentage of goods, but hard to do when you're just offloading your unwanted stuff.

Personally only use eBay as a last resort now, thing's went quickly downhill in my opinion when they removed the ability for sellers to leave buyers negative feedback. As many have said it's all in the favour of buyer which unfortunately many unscrupulous buggers seem to take advantage of far to often. Although in this case I am not sure if it is that clear cut, no photographic evidence, quickly disposed of the box used for transit before realising it was broken? Surely if that badly damaged he would have noticed straight-away and how did he manage to dispose of the box that quickly that he couldn't retrieve it (I smell BS). Also the fact that they've started their own DIY repairs on it etc... even though you clearly stated to return just sounds all very dubious. I would certainly try calling eBay and explain the situation tbh

I had similar issue when selling a portable dvd player a year back, buyer reported it didn't work properly but asked for a partial refund!?!? It had worked as thoroughly tested before dispatch, decided to call his bluff and asked him to return it and upon receipt and verification that the serial numbers matched what I had photographic evidence of then refund would be made. Funnily enough I never heard from him again. I suspect he'd previously purchased one and it had stopped working and was looking to do the old switcheroo on me.
I always note the serial numbers myself and I marked the bottom of the PS4's with a UV marker and took photographic evidence. The old switcheroo is a common one!
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
That's exactly it. I do think the scale of the problem is overblown slightly, there are many more honest brokers than fraudsters in my experience, and it is just luck who you get. As @doubledragonxx said, the problems started when sellers could no longer give buyers negtive feedback. One of the PS4s I sold was to a new user with 0 feeback too. Normally an alarm bell but genuine people have to start somewhere I suppose. Maybe as a business seller you have to write off a certain percentage of goods, but hard to do when you're just offloading your unwanted stuff.



I always note the serial numbers myself and I marked the bottom of the PS4's with a UV marker and took photographic evidence. The old switcheroo is a common one!
I tell you want really gets my goat, those that do not leave feedback after a successful transaction... I am owned quite a bit.... One dudes feedback to me was *It was OK* WTF! :eek::eek:
 

anlygi

Active Member
I tell you want really gets my goat, those that do not leave feedback after a successful transaction... I am owned quite a bit.... One dudes feedback to me was *It was OK* WTF! :eek::eek:
I have a few trades on here where people haven't left feedback, even in my early days when I sent items before payment! Especially annoying when you're trying to build a profile.
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
I have a few trades on here where people haven't left feedback, even in my early days when I sent items before payment! Especially annoying when you're trying to build a profile.
That is why folks like me and many others are on his forum now, sites like ebay have more reach I agree but also brings in the unwanted element too i.e. chancers, fraudsters and opportunists...
 

When In Rome

Distinguished Member
Usually you get reminded to leave feedback via email if you haven't left it already. Even on the Just Eat app. I dont normally leave feedback unless it's going to be negative. After all, we Brits like nothing more than having a whinge about something. When you don't leave feedback, the seller will assume that everything must be satisfactory. When the person above said that he was 'owed quite a bit of feedback' I thought... he has high hopes! Apps can be fun too. I now have a railcard app. You just present it at the ticket office and you get a third off travel. I had to do the photo myself though. I didn't like it because I think I look a bit like Marlon off Emmerdale.
 

scatterbug

Well-known Member
That is why folks like me and many others are on his forum now, sites like ebay have more reach I agree but also brings in the unwanted element too i.e. chancers, fraudsters and opportunists...
You get thieves on the classifieds here too. I've sold quite a lot on eBay and never had an issue. Just luck of the draw.
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
You get thieves on the classifieds here too. I've sold quite a lot on eBay and never had an issue. Just luck of the draw.
I recently had to help the moderators with some info about one here too, I brought something from him but he conned a few after me. If you could just meet them in real life... Banzai mode!
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
I have a few trades on here where people haven't left feedback, even in my early days when I sent items before payment! Especially annoying when you're trying to build a profile.
Esp if your new and honest seller, that is a backfire but the majority will, I tend to find you end up trading with the same folks over and over again so it sort off builds a relationship...
 

crashcris

Well-known Member
"Hi, I have taken the case apart, fixed the broken buttons with blu tack and tape. I've had to bend the case back into shape, screw it back on and fix that with tape. Powered on and it looks promising. I've only connected one speaker so far and tested the dab radio, I'm pleased to say I have got sound from it. I'm am still very disappointed that I have had to do all these repairs when I have paid around £100.00 for it. I reckon I deserve at least a partial refund please? Cheers. From Mark. "
I don't think you should worry. Contact Ebay (I'm sure you have by now), they will see that you've requested him to return the item and they will also see that by his own testimony he has materially altered the item (bending metal/blutac/tape), this all done after you requested the return. He has invalidated any claim you could have had with Parcelforce and subsequently invalidated his claim against you. Talk to Ebay, they will find in your favour and as he has materially altered the item, ask them to rescind the request for him to return it.
 
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Venomx999

Active Member
Sorry to hear that dude. What's his feedback like ?
 

MrFraggle

Distinguished Member
I always note the serial numbers myself and I marked the bottom of the PS4's with a UV marker and took photographic evidence. The old switcheroo is a common one!
Yeah someone tried that on with me with a tablet, first telling me it would not boot, then saying there were marks around the charging port. I knew it was fine but he insisted that he should get his money back or he was willing to take a 50% refund and he would get a mate to sort it. yeah right.
But I insisted he returned it to me and pointed out that I had marked it invisibly and photographed it thoroughly. I got a torrent of abuse and the tablet back which worked perfectly and Ebay was not in the least bit interested.
I rarely sell on there now as A) it is expensive, B) far to many scammers and C) the buyer is always in the right.
 

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