And I was the one who would never stream music!!!

Just Old

Banned
Having said I never would......I have..
Having said its too complicated and we should stick with boxes we can just plug in and go.....it is, well too complicated if you want to understand everything and are getting on in life, and just want stuff to play.
I shied away after buying a Sonos connect, that was simple to set up, for a non teccie. But the sound reproduction was very poor through my home separates. OK I could have added a DAC.....
but that's another story,
So it went back.
Then I went down the Ripnas, Bluesound node, cocktail route, you name it I've listened to it.
Every dealer I spoke and listened to the kit, told me the same thing.
Too much in one box, and the CD drawer is unreliable.
The Bluesound was as bad as the Sonos until the Rega r dac was added......then we were rocking, excellent CD quality FLAC playback.
The problem was to reach that level it cost £900.
In the end I walked into Peter Tysons and they set up a Linn Ds using speakers and amp of the same brand and similar spec to the ones I had at home.
The unit was just about to go on e bay ex demo.
Now heres the thing.
My biggest bitch about streaming and downloading your CD collection is the lack of customer support.
I couldn't get it why dealers did not sell the full package.
Streamer player, NAS, and back up support.
Then there is the CAT5 and additional router if your far away from your BT router......
They told me what I needed to do with the cat5, and even offered an electrician to run the line. They have a range of NAS units which they set up in house ready to plug in and go.
They spent time going through dbpoweramp, showing me what to do and making notes.
So I went for it. The ex demo ds price was too attractive to turn down which helped matters.
Went back when the nas was sorted out, and picked up the ds, router, and nas after the cat5 was installed and using the supplied diagram set it up.
I downloaded Kazoo the operating system to my ipad, then rang Tysons.
They talked me through the set up and luckily away I went.
Now they also have the ability to connect into your computer and take over and config from their offices, which I have to say is just what non teccies want.
Why can't every dealer offer this service as the norm?
However I didn't require this as talking through on the phone sorted out the few niggles and gliches I had.
So, now I've 500 or 600 CDs on a nas and listening to them through the ds.
Its been a long road.
I've spent a lot of time getting this right in my head, talking to dealers, and listening to the different options.

In conclusion the time has been well spent, but my original comments about dealers content to just sell boxes is correct in a lot of the ones I visited to listen and review equipment.
I'm glad I found Tysons and can't praise them enough for their service and especially there support.
I'd also like to thank Don Dadda, from the forum, for his help with technical issues, and some dum questions I asked him, he;s been a hive of information and has helped me understand downloading and streaming issues and equipment. Thanks DON!!!!!
I hope this post gives hope to the older folk thinking about getting rid of that CD collection.
Just Old...and knackard!!!....but happy!!
 

Don Dadda

Distinguished Member
Nice one Mike. Glad to be part of your journey into the Digital world.
Hats off to Peter Tyson for the outstanding support.
 

DIBSTER

Well-known Member
What's the rest of your system Old Man? In particular what NAS?

I keep toying with this streaming malarkey, and have over the years accumulated over 1200 albums ripped to FLAC files sat on my old PC upstairs, just in case :). I just can't seem to make myself go the final step.

PS: Peter Tyson's sound like an excellent store to deal with.
 

Just Old

Banned
My set up at the moment is Rega 3-24 with a ortofon 2m blue. Marantz PM 7001, which has served me well, Arcam CD 17, and Monitor Audio RX8 silver speakers.

I also had the same problem, because of the lack of computer experience etc.
When you think about it, once any system is set up, even a computer and using windows, it becomes second nature.
We don't really need to know how all the internal parts function.
In effect we are operators of a system, nothing more.
OK some people want to fiddle, tweek things...well that's up to them, but talking to Tysons the majority of folk want to keep up with the way accessing music has gone, and want to get rid of CD collections, and just play their music.
I was surprised when I was initially talking to them that some of their customers are into their 80s and are actively putting LP collections onto nas drives.
The other thing that makes it attractive is the availability of internet radio from round the world.
Some are 320kb, but even at 125 kb, depending on the complexity of music its really excellent sound reproduction.
I have never had dealings with Linn before, nor owned any of their equipment, and considered it a massive step in what I would normally pay for another music component for my system, however ex demo brought the price down, and I have had discussions directly with Linn with queries answered within 24 hrs.
So on going back up has been good from the manufacturer and the supplier.
As I read more, it gets easier too.
I have been in Sales all my life and although I'm stressing a point, it appears we are at a point when both the manufacturers, and the stores need to take a long look at what their five year plans are for their businesses.
In the past if a box stopped working you just took it back.
With streaming your interfacing with computers, routers, and boxes.
If something stops working an IT approach needs to be adopted to see what the problem is first before scrapping the box.
With Streaming, the increase of 24hr non interrupted radio stations, subscription music streaming companies, ripping downloads, operating software, etc needs to be catered for, they, in collaboration with their suppliers need to change the way they market and support their products.
They should be thinking more along IT support.
And that's the reason, you have not gone down this route I would suggest, and why it took me so long to take the plunge.
So, how many more sales are they missing?

These are my thoughts only. I have no axe to grind its just as I see it.
Younger folk will probably wonder what all the fuss is about, and I can only answer that by using one word.
AGE....
 

dogfonos

Well-known Member
With Streaming, the increase of 24hr non interrupted radio stations, subscription music streaming companies, ripping downloads, operating software, etc needs to be catered for, they, in collaboration with their suppliers need to change the way they market and support their products.
They should be thinking more along IT support.

You are so right, Just Old.

If my experience with a QNAP TS-212P NAS is anything to go by, there's still a long, long way to go. The hardware setup (installing the hard drives, assembling the case, connecting to router etc) was straightforward - although only a handful of HDD’s on the market are listed as compatible - but the software!

During software installation, I was regularly left in no-man’s land. Ever set out to find a remote country pub (in the days before SatNav) and found great signposting – until you were in the middle of no-where and the signage dried up? That’s how it felt with the QNAP. And expect conflicting messages, no messages when you would appreciate something, an operating system that looks nice and polished on-screen but is actually a bit creaky underneath (i.e. difficult to get exactly the on-screen view you want, deceptive/ambiguous wording and quite buggy such that features don’t always work as described in the instructions.) QNAP seem to realise this as there are regular ’updates/fixes’ but installing the correct one for your particular model and software build is not straightforward.

Main issue as I see it is that NAS devices are still predominantly aimed at the corporate world who either have IT departments or ready access to IT support services. At home, you and I probably don't. The irony is that some NAS manufacturers (such as QNAP) sell a domestic range where the hardware is more suited to home use, yet unfortunately the accompanying support (instructions supplied in the box, on-line instructions, customer services etc) and the necessary set-up procedure is still geared towards IT experts, not average computer users.

Just Old had the right idea – get someone to set it up for you. Wish I had paid the local PC shop to do just that but I was too tight and thought I might enjoy the challenge. Well, that’s a week I’ll never get back!

These NAS manufacturers really are missing a trick. Going forward, where do they think the biggest growth market is likely to be?

Younger folk will probably wonder what all the fuss is about, and I can only answer that by using one word.
AGE....

I think that's the only bit you've got wrong. Trust me, most of them are just as baffled as us old'uns. Youngsters I've worked with didn't know how to completely turn off their iPhone's.
 

Just Old

Banned
Glad you agree dog.
I reckon there is a massive market just waiting for these guys to get there act together.
I can only conclude that at some point in time we will all be playing music from the likes of Deezer, as an example. No CD downloading, no nas drives. JUST subscription music. But untill someone makes it more accessible, and internet speeds can support without constant buffering in all parts of the country we will be stuck in limbo.
No doubt others will have a point of view.
It would be nice just for discussion purposes to see what they think.?
 

DIBSTER

Well-known Member
I finally gave up on vinyl earlier this year and sold off everything lock, stock and barrel (one good thing about this "new" vinyl fad is that my old, and in some cases decrepit record collection was sold on for way, way more than I imagined it would sell for :) ). All my favourite LPs had long been copied into FLAC files using the Audacity programme.

However, I will never sell my CD collection, I can be quite emphatic about that, I love playing CDs. I drive a van around Monday to Friday for work and I play at least a couple of CDs every working day. It's a great way of playing my CD collection, just grab a couple of discs at random every morning on my way out of the door!

The technology doesn't frighten me. I built my old PC 6 years ago one Saturday when I had nothing to do. I bought a "How To Build Your Own PC" book, went to Scan Computers and bought all the bits and bobs and knocked it together. Still going strong 6 years later, though quite a bit noisier, hence the reason it's upstairs unused, and has been usurped by my laptop now.

My listening at home is split between CD playback, internet radio via my Squeezebox Touch, and Spotify also via my Squeezebox Touch. The SBT is unbeatable for internet radio in my opinion, and control via my tablet (using the Squeeze Commander App) is as simple, as simple can be. I can also stream my music from my PC to my SBT if I wanted but it means having the PC switched on, and to be honest I've found the Logitech Media Server on the SBT a bit clunky, and a bit hit and miss. Sometimes it finds My Music collection, sometimes it doesn't. No idea why, and TBH I've never really bothered to find out why, though I'm sure it's something to do with my PC rather than the SBT. I nearly bought a Synology NAS earlier this year but bottled out at the last minute. Trouble is I keep reading reviews of this NAS, and that NAS, and I can't decide which one to go for. Dependent on which review you believe every NAS is either the best thing since sliced bread, or a crock of ***** not to be touched with a barge pole, a proper minefield of choices.

You see a CD is so simple. Place disc in CDP, press play, job done.

Next year when I hit the big 60 I'm thinking of treating myself and simplyfying my set-up. I've been looking at one box systems, and this new Arcam Solo Music out this month looks the business, ticking all the right boxes including the streaming option. If I did buy myself something like this then I would seriously consider going down the NAS route and research it further.

.
 

GW43

Well-known Member
I can't see why anyone bothers with a NAS - I've never heard anything except problems with them. Generally any old PC will act as a music server, and external hard drives can easily be added and daisy-chained where necessary.

My PC happily goes into and out of sleep mode from my Sonos. Any additional heat it generates is quite useful at this time of year!
 

eddiewww

Active Member
I can't see why anyone bothers with a NAS - I've never heard anything except problems with them. Generally any old PC will act as a music server, and external hard drives can easily be added and daisy-chained where necessary.

My PC happily goes into and out of sleep mode from my Sonos. Any additional heat it generates is quite useful at this time of year!

Of course you can just as easily use your PC as a music server, but for me, my NAS being set-up as a RAID server means all my precious music and movies are backed up. I've had many PC's over the years and lost all of my data when it crashed. Of course now you can back up to the cloud which mitigates that somewhat, but with about 4.5 Tb of Music and about the same in film, it would cost a me a fair bit each month in storage fees.

My NAS is quite powerful in terms of processing power and i added additional RAM, so it can happily stream music to me in my study while the boss watches a movie in the sitting room, no stuttering or buffering.

As for the Linn DS, yes it is really good i must admit. However Kazaa is a complete waste of time. I just couldn't get it working properly. Plenty people on the Linn forum also had problems and pointed me to BubbleDS. I have to say it works a charm, very smooth and easy to navigate. It's free to try with a limit on the size of playlist, but a small donation unlocks it. I use it every day, listening to internet radio (KCRW Eclectic24 - Brilliant mix of music) then when i hear something that gets me going, pop into the library and fire up something to continue along.......give it a try!
 

Cebolla

Well-known Member
I can't see why anyone bothers with a NAS - I've never heard anything except problems with them. Generally any old PC will act as a music server, and external hard drives can easily be added and daisy-chained where necessary.

My PC happily goes into and out of sleep mode from my Sonos. Any additional heat it generates is quite useful at this time of year!
If you discount the energy saving benefits, then I'd say it's because most people prefer not to 'mess about' with a computer and prefer a box purpose built for the task of providing access to stored music files over the network.

Ironically, your proprietary Sonos streaming system only requires network shared folders to be available for it access the music files to build its music library from, so it would be a pretty poor NAS if it doesn't provide this basic function and get it working easily, without any issues. To the average user it would be more hassle to set up a network shared folder on a computer, than it would to use the default already provided one on the majority of NASs.

Problems streaming music from NASs most likely occur with industry standard UPnP/DLNA streaming, usually due to the NAS running a poorly designed & buggy stock UPnP/DLNA media server software (so not used by Sonos).
 

Cebolla

Well-known Member
Of course you can just as easily use your PC as a music server, but for me, my NAS being set-up as a RAID server means all my precious music and movies are backed up. I've had many PC's over the years and lost all of my data when it crashed. Of course now you can back up to the cloud which mitigates that somewhat, but with about 4.5 Tb of Music and about the same in film, it would cost a me a fair bit each month in storage fees.
No, no, no. RAID should never be used as a substitute for back up. Its purpose is to get you quickly going again, should a drive fail. What would you do if all your drives fail in quick succession and/or during the restore after failure process and you don't have your data backed up in a completely different place?
 
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eddiewww

Active Member
No, no, no. Raid should never be used as a substitute for back up. Its purpose is to get you quickly going again, should a drive fail. What would you do if all your drives fail in quick succession and/or during the restore after failure process and you don't have your data backed up in a completely different place?

Of course important files and photos and such are fully backed up to the cloud...but as i said 9 - 10 Tb of storage is quite expensive and the likelihood of all 4 disks failing in quick succession are fairly small. Of course if the unthinkable happens and there was a fire or something, my music collection would be the least of my worries!
 

larkone

Distinguished Member
A RAID array can be completetly wiped out by software glitches or controller failures so thinking you are safe because four drives will never fail is a very dangerous strategy
 

eddiewww

Active Member
A RAID array can be completetly wiped out by software glitches or controller failures so thinking you are safe because four drives will never fail is a very dangerous strategy

well i have the original CD's, BD's and vinyl...so maybe dangerous strategy is a little OTT...If i was hosting and running my business on it maybe, but its media rips. :)
 

eddiewww

Active Member
Also, not to labour the point, but (and we are talking home setups). A home NAS is great for a standard user. If used correctly it IS the backup.

Having worked with Teir1 banks for the last 20 years, they still have most of their data backed up on propitiatory RAID servers (maybe active/active, again, a touch overkill for home media?) and maybe not Synology, but RAID is RAID. If the regulators think that works for them, its fine for me.

Should i spend circa £100 per month backing up discs i already own? Perhaps i could spend that money buying a second NAS as a mirror?

Just my thoughts.
 

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