And finally...

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
Positives and negatives as with everything. Positive:

On Saturday morning, I set out with my battery about 75% charged and drove 65 miles to the town of Beverley. Arrived there at about 0815 with 40-odd% remaining. Mrs LV426 was entered in the ParkRun at 9. And we were booked to stay in a hotel there on Saturday night; a hotel with a very small car park and no charger. (To be fair they may have had a 13a outlet in one of the outbuildings; many places do; but we never asked). The hotel car park was full at 0815.

Parking in Beverley is fairly plentiful but expensive 0800-1800 Mon-Sat. £5.40 all day - free evenings and Sundays. On-street parking is residents only (or 1 hour) for a large area. Even Blue Badge holders pay the same rates in these car parks.

But: I drove my EV into such a car park near the hotel and plugged it in at one of the two 7kW outlets there. Free parking for EVs while charging - and free "fuel" too. So it stayed there until sometime after 11, completely free, at which time it was full and I moved it over to the (now more empty) hotel car park where it stayed until we left on Monday. Indeed, had I "needed" to remain in the municipal car park for longer (eg for a simple day visit) I could have slowed my car's charge rate such that it would have taken 6 hours to complete; thus giving me 6 hours free parking in effect.

While my car was charging and Mrs LV426 was running, I visited on foot the three other municipal car parks in Beverley and noted that at various times between 0900 and 1100
  • the other outlet next to mine was now occupied by a Tesla
  • in each of the other three locations, there was no occupancy of the chargers. In other words, there were at least six other sockets in municipal car parks I might have used had I been unable to use the one I did. In addition, at the central Tesco, four 7kW outlets, two in use, two vacant, plus one 50kW DC point, also vacant. (3 hours max stay for free at Tesco for any car). And there are three 7 kW outlets in a multi-storey car park that I did not visit. Oh, and a single 50kW unit at a nearby Lidl. And another 50kW at a slightly more distant Morrisons.

This was Saturday, which is Market Day - probably the busiest day of the week.

No doubt usage/occupancy (and parking charge concessions) will change as EV takeup increases. But the thing to note is - the network is also changing. All of the outlets in the municipal car parks are new since my last visit a year ago, as is the 50kW outlet at Tesco. And before that, two years ago, there was nothing at all at at Tesco, nor Lidl, nor Morrisons. There were, at that time, only the three in the Multi-Storey. I have no reason to suppose that this growth won't continue alongside EV takeup.

Many years ago, we used to live in Beverley, in a terraced house with no off street parking (and therefore, no at-home charging). If we moved back there right now then I could still be an EV user. I'd simply make use of the chargers described. The friends we visited while there live in a similar property. He commutes daily about 20 miles each way. He could do that in an EV, using solely the public chargers. Yes, it would be "different"; he'd need to plan for a visit to Tesco or Lidl or Morrisons a couple of times a week, say - which is probably likely for most folk anyway. But against that, he'd no longer need a fortnightly special trip to a petrol station.
 

stblob

Well-known Member
This just proves that charging need to be a lot simpler. It also proves that if you can't charge at home then an EV is pretty much useless. I don't need an app the fill with fuel!
 

raymondo77

Member
This just proves that charging need to be a lot simpler. It also proves that if you can't charge at home then an EV is pretty much useless. I don't need an app the fill with fuel!

From what I can tell an app is not necessary. Most of the charge points I've seen accept contactless payments, although they can be more expensive without a subscription.

Once my Ioniq 5 arrives I'll find out fairly quickly how useless it is as I don't have the option to charge at home.

What I've learned so far is that it's easiest and pretty much seamless for Tesla owners, but the rest of the EV market can be hit and miss.

I'm pretty sure you can't fill up an ICE car while you're in the supermarket, or having lunch in town, or at the office - all of which can be available to EV owners, so it seems to me they it's swings and roundabouts.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
From what I can tell an app is not necessary. Most of the charge points I've seen accept contactless payments, although they can be more expensive without a subscription.

Once my Ioniq 5 arrives I'll find out fairly quickly how useless it is as I don't have the option to charge at home.

What I've learned so far is that it's easiest and pretty much seamless for Tesla owners, but the rest of the EV market can be hit and miss.

I'm pretty sure you can't fill up an ICE car while you're in the supermarket, or having lunch in town, or at the office - all of which can be available to EV owners, so it seems to me they it's swings and roundabouts.
I think you will find most supermarkets have petrol stations but anyway.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
This just proves that charging need to be a lot simpler. It also proves that if you can't charge at home then an EV is pretty much useless. I don't need an app the fill with fuel!
It will be, I've spoken to people working on the back end stuff and we are probably about 2 to 3 years away from seamless charging hopefully across brands and chargers. In the meantime its better then it was a few years ago and with OTA updates they can push out fixes quicker and easier.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
I think you will find most supermarkets have petrol stations but anyway.
Correct; but you can't use them while you are shopping. Only as a separate event alongside. Unless there are two of you, of course.
 

stblob

Well-known Member
From what I can tell an app is not necessary. Most of the charge points I've seen accept contactless payments, although they can be more expensive without a subscription.

Once my Ioniq 5 arrives I'll find out fairly quickly how useless it is as I don't have the option to charge at home.

What I've learned so far is that it's easiest and pretty much seamless for Tesla owners, but the rest of the EV market can be hit and miss.

I'm pretty sure you can't fill up an ICE car while you're in the supermarket, or having lunch in town, or at the office - all of which can be available to EV owners, so it seems to me they it's swings and roundabouts.
Subscriptions? That's a new one I was not aware off! That makes things even more complex.

The Ioniq 5 looks like a nice car, so all the best with that.

Tesla is a different ball game, they have there own infrastructure that works but sadly there vehiculs are out if reach of the average person starting at around £50k. Nice cars and wouldn't say no to one.

Agreed, you cant fill an ICE while shopping but only takes minutes to put 500 miles range of fuel in.

Would be interesting to see how you get on when you have you're Ioniq 5 as you can't charge at home, hope we get an update. Think a fair few of us would like to know. Should be cool.
 

stblob

Well-known Member
It will be, I've spoken to people working on the back end stuff and we are probably about 2 to 3 years away from seamless charging hopefully across brands and chargers. In the meantime its better then it was a few years ago and with OTA updates they can push out fixes quicker and easier.
Fair enough, but that's still 2 to 3 years plus. The government wants us to change today and that's not going to realistically happen.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
Fair enough, but that's still 2 to 3 years plus. The government wants us to change today and that's not going to realistically happen.
I don't think the government is saying change today. They are saying on your next cycle think about electric. For most people that is 3 to 5 years. Once they start doing scrappage in a few years time then it will get more urgent. At the moment they plans are geared towards a gradual change.
 

raymondo77

Member
Subscriptions? That's a new one I was not aware off! That makes things even more complex.

The Ioniq 5 looks like a nice car, so all the best with that.

Tesla is a different ball game, they have there own infrastructure that works but sadly there vehiculs are out if reach of the average person starting at around £50k. Nice cars and wouldn't say no to one.

Agreed, you cant fill an ICE while shopping but only takes minutes to put 500 miles range of fuel in.

Would be interesting to see how you get on when you have you're Ioniq 5 as you can't charge at home, hope we get an update. Think a fair few of us would like to know. Should be cool.

I'll definitely post updates, you never know I might be grumbling about how it is useless after a couple of weeks! 🤣

I would love a Tesla, but the Model Y isn't out in the UK yet and I wouldn't want to lose the convenience of a hatchback and the Model X is waaaaaaaay out of reach. Hopefully when they open up their infrastructure it'll make things much better for the rest of us EV peasants!

You're right about charge time being an issue, especially if you're doing a long drive and end up adding an hour or so to the journey to top up. Hopefully there will be enough rapid chargers in the system in the next year or so, so I can make use of the 350kWh charging. 20 minutes to 80% still isn't as convenient as the 3-5 minutes it takes to fill my A-Class, but it's going in the right direction. Still a long way to go until this is the right technology for most people though. 🙂
 

amun

Member
Yes, it would be "different"; he'd need to plan for a visit to Tesco or Lidl or Morrisons a couple of times a week, say - which is probably likely for most folk anyway. But against that, he'd no longer need a fortnightly special trip to a petrol station.
Surely he'd just fill up at Tesco or Morrisons when he goes shopping - why would he need to make a special trip?
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
20 minutes to 80% still isn't as convenient as the 3-5 minutes it takes to fill my A-Class, but it's going in the right direction. Still a long way to go until this is the right technology for most people though. 🙂
If I may put that another way for your consideration.

It takes around 20 minutes (yes, admittedly at the right type of chargepoint) to add enough range for another 3+hours driving (at motorway speeds). That's after the three+ hours you just did. I suspect that many will want (or need) to take a break for "comfort" (politely) and/or some refreshment at that sort of interval. As long as you remember that charging can be an unattended process, you plug in, do those things and then return to find your 3 hours already there waiting for you, the net time it took was possibly less than your A-class (etc). And you have already saved the time it would have taken to fill the A-class at the outset as you charged whilst you slept at home.
Surely he'd just fill up at Tesco or Morrisons when he goes shopping - why would he need to make a special trip?
My point exactly.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
Subscriptions? That's a new one I was not aware off! That makes things even more complex.

The Ioniq 5 looks like a nice car, so all the best with that.

Tesla is a different ball game, they have there own infrastructure that works but sadly there vehiculs are out if reach of the average person starting at around £50k. Nice cars and wouldn't say no to one.
With subscriptions I would expect in the future that they will be managed by the car app, just put you credit card number in and tick which subscriptions you would like. As mentioned you don't need subscriptions but you will get a better price with them.

Tesla are opening up their charging network next year, so they will probably be another supplier you can subscribe to.
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
The thing is things evolve, things change, yes some things are the same, but also some things may be a bit different, maybe some things for the better, but some other things may be a little worse; for some, but ultimately there's a better and bigger picture destination. I personally don't want to leave a planet for my kids where they have to live on boats or it's just generally fooked so they leave for Mars because of what we've done for the past 100 years. Yes people in general don't like chane and so shy away from it or risist it, we're human, but surely the bigger picture is worth a little change or pain?
 

raymondo77

Member
If I may put that another way for your consideration.

It takes around 20 minutes (yes, admittedly at the right type of chargepoint) to add enough range for another 3+hours driving (at motorway speeds). That's after the three+ hours you just did. I suspect that many will want (or need) to take a break for "comfort" (politely) and/or some refreshment at that sort of interval. As long as you remember that charging can be an unattended process, you plug in, do those things and then return to find your 3 hours already there waiting for you, the net time it took was possibly less than your A-class (etc). And you have already saved the time it would have taken to fill the A-class at the outset as you charged whilst you slept at home.

Fair point. I think I will have a period of adjustment and then will just accept I need to think differently about how I approach "refuelling" my car. As opposed to one trip to a petrol station, once or twice a month, I'll be on the lookout for places where I can leave my car while I do other things and then just head out to Reading Burghfield services (closest rapid chargers to me) if I need anything more, and plan the "comfort" breaks on longer journeys - which for me really only occur a couple of times a year. After a month or so I suspect - hope - it'll be second nature.

It's all hypothetical at the moment, until it arrives, then hopefully happy days!
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Turn the air con off? :eek:
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
You're right about charge time being an issue, especially if you're doing a long drive and end up adding an hour or so to the journey to top up.

It took us nearly 6hrs to cover just 200 miles earlier this week. The reason was nothing to do with charging but its a reflection of UK long distance driving during school holidays.

During last half term it took 5hrs to do about 100 miles out of Devon!!!

Each time I have stopped to charge the car has been 'ready' before my wife has made it to the front of the Starbucks queue. Infact twice I've hit 100% charge before she got back to the car so I had to move the car to make space at the charger.

Its utter carnage at service stations at present, unless you have a small person to look after I really would avoid them :).
 

raymondo77

Member
It took us nearly 6hrs to cover just 200 miles earlier this week. The reason was nothing to do with charging but its a reflection of UK long distance driving during school holidays.

During last half term it took 5hrs to do about 100 miles out of Devon!!!

Each time I have stopped to charge the car has been 'ready' before my wife has made it to the front of the Starbucks queue. Infact twice I've hit 100% charge before she got back to the car so I had to move the car to make space at the charger.

Its utter carnage at service stations at present, unless you have a small person to look after I really would avoid them :).

Oh man that's very true! After three nights of camping in wet and windy weather last weekend I was pretty damned tired so had to make some stops to be safe, and could not believe how busy the services were and just how much people seem to need a McDonald's!
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Oh man that's very true! After three nights of camping in wet and windy weather last weekend I was pretty damned tired so had to make some stops to be safe, and could not believe how busy the services were and just how much people seem to need a McDonald's!
Compared to the continent, our service stations are awful!
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Pretty certain I'm on my last ICE, so in 3 years I will be looking at an EV.

The infrastructure does need to catch up however. We have plenty of off road parking for 2-3 cars at home, but we would only be able to fit 1 charging socket as we have a typical 100A household supply. As we have 2 cars plus 2 daughters with their own, a certain amount of planning will be required to keep everything topped once we all go electric.

In our Lincolnshire market town, there's currently a grand total of 5 public chargers (2 x 7.5KW, 2 x 50KW, 1 Tesla DC), none of which are in convenient locations, being in a retail park car park with just a B&Q or carpet warehouse to wander around and at a small petrol station on the edge of town. We do however have 7 petrol stations with more than 55 pumps between them...

I think this illustrates the scale of the challenge to provide the public charging infrastructure. Allowing for the extended charging time over refuelling, how many public chargers will be required to replace the current petrol stations? My guess would be about 1 charger per 500 cars, but I'm assuming someone's done the detailed maths on this!!

So long as we can avoid the street in Hackney where a work colleague lives. They have numerous 13A extension leads stretched out from 1st floor windows into the trees on the roadside. They and their neighbours find a parking spot, locate their cable and unravel or extend it to their car. Apparently on a bad day, it starts to resemble those pictures you see of power cables in India, with a total rats nest strung along the trees and kerbside. Not very sustainable!
 

oneman

Well-known Member
So long as we can avoid the street in Hackney where a work colleague lives. They have numerous 13A extension leads stretched out from 1st floor windows into the trees on the roadside. They and their neighbours find a parking spot, locate their cable and unravel or extend it to their car. Apparently on a bad day, it starts to resemble those pictures you see of power cables in India, with a total rats nest strung along the trees and kerbside. Not very sustainable!
In kerb charging as a technology has been around for some time even if it is 7Kw. There are even 100's of test installs in various parts of the country. One of the biggest hurdles is planning permission laws which need to change to speed up rollout.

 

IronGiant

Moderator
I gave you two, what more do you want? :devil:
Yes, my bad, sorry about that :blush:

Short summary: It was a bit stressful, but we made it :thumbsup:
 

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