Anamorphic Widescreen / Sony KV36FS70

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Cinders, Jan 22, 2002.

  1. Cinders

    Cinders
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    I know that a 2.35:1 source on my 16:9 widescreen will produce thick black bands above and below due to the ratio.

    However I thought an anamorphic 2.35:1 should show me more picture, but still have bands above and below, again due to the ratio. Is this correct?

    When I watch any 2.35:1 being anamorphic or non-anamorphic on my Sony KV36-FS70 it looks the same.

    Do I need to zoom in or stretch the picture out manually?

    Also about the problems people are experiencing...

    The KV36FS70 for a start is very prone and sensitive to magnetic interference! I actually had my TUBE replaced because of this. I still have a slight green tinge, that actually comes from one of my main speakers, moving the speaker into the kitchen gets rid of it. I'll live with it as I'm moving house shortly.

    As for geometry, I had to rotate my picture to about -4 to get the horizontal lines to run straight, I also had an engineer out to sort out the slight banding.

    Now it's all setup, the KV36FS70 is a great set, the picture quality is excellent, much better than anything I've seen. I am very pleased with my set, I'm just waiting for digital tv to be re-invented as it's crap!

    Cinders
     
  2. DaveP

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    Cinders,

    Have you taken the auto sizing off of the AV inputs as well as the terrestrial channels.

    I had a similar problem with the tele trying to guess the aspect ratio of DVD movies.

    DaveP
     
  3. Cinders

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    Yes I turned off auto-sizing after it was giving me a load of jip with my Sky Digital. (both dvd and sky digital use AV1)

    Surely I don't have to turn it on to get the tv to display the anamorphic picture correctly?...
     
  4. DaveP

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    Noooo.. Don't do that !

    Just guessing here but have you just changed your TV from a 4:3 set to the 16:9? If so, is there an option in the DVD player to say what size screen you are using? Maybe this needs changing to 16:9

    DaveP
     
  5. Cinders

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    yes that is already set to widescreen and a normal 2.35:1 dvd look fine, but an anamorphic one (16x9 enhanced) looks the same, ie. no more picture?....

    maybe i need to stretch it myself?...
     
  6. LV426

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    The reference to 2.35:1 is a reference to the SHAPE of the useful or meaningful part of the picture ie the bit that the actual film is in.

    Reproduced properly, a 2.35:1 film will be a given, fixed shape, irrespective of whether it is anamorphic or not. The black bars will be the same size.

    If you have a non-anamorphic, letterboxed DVD, you zoom the TV. If you have an anamorphic DVD, you set the TV to "Wide", Full", or whatever term your TV manufacturers use.

    To take advantage of anamorphic, you have to tell your DVD player to output such a signal where is is available on the disc. You do this in the DVD player setup by telling it you have a widescreen or 16:9 TV.
     
  7. DaveP

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    I think what Nigel is trying to say is that a 2.35:1 picture is 2.35:1 irrespective of it being anamorphic or not!

    When you say "When I watch any 2.35:1 being anamorphic or non-anamorphic on my Sony KV36-FS70 it looks the same. "

    it will be the same, don't worry about it!

    DaveP
     
  8. Cinders

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    Why bother with 16x9 enhanced anamorphic dvd's then?

    I thought anamorphic meant it contained more picture information so could be stretched...

    I'm gonna have to find a guide to anamorphic pictures...
     
  9. DaveP

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    You'll get more detail in the picture, not a bigger picture.

    Perhaps we mis-understand your problem?

    I don't think I've seen a non-anamorphic 2.35:1 DVD movie.

    DaveP
     
  10. Cinders

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  11. Cinders

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    Then again, this is my problem I have at home.

    Please have a look at

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/anamorphic235demo.html

    If you look at the bottom two pictures showing a 2.35:1 picture on a 16x9 tv.

    On mine at home, it looks like the left hand picture all the way across my screen, very thin with huge black lines at the top and bottom.

    On the tv on the right, the bars are still there but not as thick - surely it should look like that on my KV36FS-70.

    Maybe if I turn autopicture format on, the tv will redraw it that way?

    Can anyone help?

    I'm using a Pioneer 717 with a Sony KV36FS70 TV set.
     
  12. DaveP

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    I cannot get to this site from work but from what you describe it is almost as if it's a comparison between 2.35:1 on a 4:3 set and 2.35:1 on a 16:9!

    I'll take a look at home and get back to you tomorrow.

    DaveP
     
  13. Guest

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    Hi,

    It seems to me, that what you are seeing on your set is normal.
    If your problem is "I have black bars above and below my 1:2.35 anamorphic picture" then you don't have a problem.

    Anamorphic pictures contain more picture information to allow them to be stretched (more vertical information..I forget the details). This extra information is not there to allow a 2.35 picture to fit a 16:9 screen - you should still get the black bars. What you will see is a better quality/resolution of picture than if the picture had not been enhanced for widescreen TVs(anamorphic).

    Your DVD player should be set for a 16:9 TV to automatically get at the anamorphic information.

    Some older 4:3 TVs without a 16:9 mode will not allow you to get your hands on the extra information.

    Hope this helps,
    Darren
     
  14. Cinders

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    I understand I should still get the bars above and beneath and cannot fill out the 16x9 screen without losing the aspect, but...

    On a 1.85:1 aspect dvd you can fill the full screen, which mine does no problem. No bars

    On a 2.35:1 aspect dvd you still have bars, but they're not too thick.

    On my tv they are really thick about 1/4 of the screen below and above, and you litterally get about half a screen of picture - it looks tiny, even on my 36"W/S

    I thought the anamorphic zoomed it in a bit more so you only get thin(ish) lines above and below. Not 1/4 of the screen!

    I think I'm going to read the guide again!...

    Cinders.
     
  15. Guest

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    Hi Cinders,

    I have seen the effect you describe before...but not with an anamorphic 16:9 set of media.

    Some movies are written to DVD with a 1:2.35 aspect ratio and that's it. The matte bars are actually saved as part of the picture, so if you try to output them to 16:9 the actual picture will become even narrower. This is true for instance with (the excellent) Abyss DVD. I zoomed this film to make the most of it.

    What DVD's are you using to test, perhaps some people here could see how their's appear in 16:9 mode ?

    cheers
    daz
     
  16. Doubledoom

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    2.35:1 is 2.35:1

    It doesn't matter if it is anamorphic or non-anamorphic. However, your tv will use up to four different zoom modes depending on your choices and this will impact on the amount of overscan and therefore the size of the black bars.

    Anamorphic 2.35:1 should always be in the 16:9/wide mode.

    However, it is non-anamorphic 2.35:1 that may cause the problems:

    If your tv defaults to 4:3 mode, then you will get black bars all round.

    If your tv is in the stretch and crop mode (auto-size, guess mode), it will make an attempt at getting the correct aspect ratio, although it very rarely will get it right.

    There should also be a manual zoom mode for non-anamorphic widescreen material (on Toshiba its called Cinema) and this should show the correct aspect ratio.

    So make sure you have the correct zoom mode for the correct transmission/recording and make sure the overscan and positioning settings are correct (or to suit taste) for each zoom mode.

    Also, check out http://www.dvdweb.co.uk/information/anamorphic.htm as this site shows you what anamorphic does without worrying too much about the aspect ratio.
     
  17. Cinders

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    OK here's an example...

    Pearl Harbour (not mine, i borrowed it off a mate -honest!) - Put it on, sat back to watch it, and there you go, big bars above and below the picture, not just thickish ones, we're talking again, about 1/4 (of tv) bar at top, 1/4 bar at bottom, the picture is about 1/2 the size (vertically) of the tv.

    I hit the SMART button on the controller, and it flicks to show the same picture but with smaller bars at top and at bottom, now the picture is say 3/5th the size (vertically) of the tv, and the bars are about 1/5th bottom and top.

    The picture looks the same aspect as well, ie. not stretched etc.

    Weird.
     
  18. js

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    Cinders

    I know what you mean.
    On my current Sony 25" 4:3 TV it has a 16:9 mode. on 2.35:1 DVDs that are anamorphic I set my DVD player to 16:9 mode and I do get the black bars to be smaller. Examples are The Phantom Menace and the Matrix. Surely everyone who has a widescreen TV should get the same thing happening?
    The URL that Cinders posted also suggests this. I think on every anamorphic 2.35:1 DVD I have I can get the black bars to be smaller on my 4:3 TV by setting my DVD player to 16:9 but on any non-anamorphic 2.35:1 DVDs it will keep to the very narrow picture I expect it to.
     
  19. DaveP

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    Cinders you must loose the left and right bits when you select smart.

    You cant get a quart out of a pint pot! If the black bars get smaller then the picture is either strecthed vertically or chopped at the sides.

    DaveP
     
  20. Cinders

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    Exactly! Thats what's confusing me - I've never vertical lines down either side!
     
  21. Doubledoom

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    What about overscan though? you might not have black bars down the sides but is some of the width being cropped off?
     
  22. DaveP

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    Cinders, I have had a look at the site and pictures you mention. You missed the bit where they say that the picture on the left is shown 4:3 on a 16:9 set. Hence the white bars at either side and the large black bars at the top and bottom.

    This should make you see what is happening if you read it all carefully. Only with anamorphic on a 16:9 screen do you see the full picture as shown in the cinema, with no stretching to spoild the clarity.

    Hope you are clear now!

    DaveP
     
  23. Zacabeb

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    They actually replaced the tube? :eek: I thought they wouldn't do that because of the cost and special gear needed. Good thing they replaced it though, I hope it wasn't at your own expense.

    Perhaps I can force Philips to replace the tube in my TV... :D

    I don't mind the black bars in 2.35:1 much, even though I feel it gets nearly too small. I prefer that format for panoramas, hate it for extreme closeups - that only works on Clint Eastwood.
     
  24. mandlebrot

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    I think I'm in the same boat has Cinders, in that I also think the bars are thicker than they should be. I have just looked at http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/anamorphic235demo.html , right at the bottom right of the page it shows an anamorphic 2.35:1 aspect ratio DVD has shown on a 16X9 widescreen TV. It states in the text and shows in the picture that thin black bars top/bottom are necessary to maintain the proper composition, but I get thick bars top and bottom which is what I think Cinders is saying. Does this mean somehow the TV or DVD player is set up incorrectly?

    TV - Panasonic PG30 32inch Widescreen, set in 16X9 aspect ratio.
    DVD - LG, set up for widescreen TV and connected with RGB scart.
    :confused: :confused:
     
  25. Cinders

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    Yeah they repaced the tube, for free. The tube had some staining when I got it, I complained and asked for a replacement set, the company (empire) wouldn't send out another set and said it had to be repaired. The local Sony place had to replace the entire tube! What a waste of time and money - could have just sent me a new tv!
     
  26. Cinders

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    DaveP Tapped on his keyboard:-

    "Cinders, I have had a look at the site and pictures you mention. You missed the bit where they say that the picture on the left is shown 4:3 on a 16:9 set. Hence the white bars at either side and the large black bars at the top and bottom. "

    Dave - on the page I'm referring to (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/anamorphic235demo.html) the two bottom shots are both 16x9 screens, the one on the left showing non-anamorphic 2.35:1 and one on the right showing anamorphic 2.35:1.

    I have attached the picture that shows how a 2.35:1 anamorphic picture should look on a 16x9 widescreen tv.

    I beleive on my tv mine should look like this picture with thin black lines above and below.

    My current setups shows much much thicker lines above and below (like Mandlebrot says his does)

    I think this is a setup problem somewhere either with the tv or DVD player.

    Cinders.
     

    Attached Files:

  27. MartinImber

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    Please check the following

    1) DVD set to 16x9

    2) TV in WIDE

    Picture should then be fine
     
  28. Cinders

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    Yep, my TV and DVD player is set up that way.

    I might try turning autoformat on for AV1 and see if that solves anything.

    I understand that it's the TV that interprets the anamorphic signal and re-draws the picture to fit the screen keeping the correct aspect ratio.

    I have my DVD connected to my TV via my Sky Digibox using fully-wired scart leads, maybe thats the problem? It might not be passing the signal through correctly?

    Cinders.
     
  29. johnjackthom

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    I agree, my RPTV also displays more black above and below than this sample picture shows.

    Why not take a tape measure to the TV screen and then divide the width of the image (adding a little extra for left and right overscan) by its height. If you get something close to 2.35 then all is well!
    But if it's greater than this???

    Regards,
    John
     
  30. Cinders

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    He He - I actually did something similar when setting up the horizontal and vertical width of the screen using a test card.

    One of the tests was a perfect circle in the middle of the screen, I used a tape measure to measue the width and height of it so I could adjust the tv so it was perfectly round.

    I might measure it for my own piece of mind.... A bit anal really... ; )
     

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