1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Analogue to Digital Passthrough Advice Sought

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Editing Forum' started by TonyM19, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. TonyM19

    TonyM19
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Messages:
    72
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    I’m looking for my first digital camcorder for this summer. I have a budget of £250 – 350, but I do have a requirement that it must have analogue to digital pass through to convert my old Hi8mm and VHS tapes. I’m off to the USA for the family hols but I’ve been browsing these forums for the past month or so and know that if I bought one over there it would be almost certainly not be able to convert my old PAL tapes.

    I think that these models fit the bill, but I would appreciate if anybody could confirm or otherwise that these support a to d passthrough

    Canon MX700I
    Canon MX730I
    Canon MX750I

    Panasonic GR-D53 (not sure about this one – I’ve read conflicting reports)
    Panasonic GR-D73
    Panasonic GR-D93

    If there are any others in the price range that anybody has had any joy with, I’d appreciate if you could let me know

    Cheers
     
  2. scragend

    scragend
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    If you mean Canon MV700i etc (not MX) then yes, they do support A to D passthrough.

    I've just got an MV730i on eBay for £250. Happy with it, except for that infernal motor noise being picked up on the tape. That won't matter for passthrough, of course.
     
  3. TonyM19

    TonyM19
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Messages:
    72
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    Sorry my mistake, I did mean MV.

    Thanks for the response. I currently have a Samsung analogue camcorder - now that's motor noise!

    Anybody got any feedback on the Panasonics?


    Cheers
     
  4. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi,
    Quick question re the above:
    Canon MV700i + MV730i has DV in / out using a 3.5mm composite jack.
    Canon MV750I had DV in / out plus S Video in.
    I have bought a new Hi8 camcorder (Canon G45Hi) to play my old Hi8 tapes so I can convert them to DV format. This camera - the Canon G45Hi has S Video out and composite out.
    My question (thanks for your patience so far) - is there a difference between capturing my Hi8 films onto the MV700i via DV in (3.5mm jack) Vs capturing it using the MV750i using S Video in?
    I would very much appreciate your thoughts, I have checked a number of sources which suggest to use the S Video but I'd like to know (if possble) to what degree is there a difference in the final saved DV material.
    I will transfer my Hi8 tapes to DV then later process using Adobe Premier then onto DVD for family consumption.
    I appreciate your thoughts / experiences,
    Simon
     
  5. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,121
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,389
    Simon, I think you are getting confused with your connections. DV is not a jack connection, but similar to USB but a bit smaller. DV & USB are digital connections.
    To record from the Hi8 cam to DV cam you need to make all connections analogue. The jack is probably a combined connection for stereo audio & composite video. The cam should have been supplied with the lead with the jack on one end and red & white phonos for stereo audio and a yellow phono for the composite video connections on the other end.
    I would think you need to plug the red & white phonos into the Hi8 cam with the jack plug into the DV cam. Also connect an S-Video to S-Video lead for video as this should offer a fair improvement over composite for the video, and just leave the yellow phono unconnected. S-Video should give a cleaner, sharper picture as it has more bandwidth than composite.

    Hope this helps,
    Mark.
     
  6. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,
    Thanks for your reply.
    I understand fully your rresponse can I rephrase my question -
    The Hi8 camera has one S Video out and one 3.5mm composite video / audio out socket.
    The DV Cam Canon MV700i has only 3.5mm composite in. DV out is the DV socket out you drescribe.
    The more expensive DV Cam Canon MV750i has both 3.5mm composite in and S video in.
    I believe S Video out to S Video in (using Hi8 to the Canon MV750i) would give the best results Vs 3.5mm composite out to 3.5mm composite in (using Hi8 to the Canon MV700i).
    My question is would I notice the difference if compared side by side? And, since I'm going to transfer the newly made DV material to my PC to edit and later burn to DVD would I notice any difference if the "source" material was "transfered" using composite to composite Vs S Video to S Video? (hope this is clear)
    Very much appreciate your thoughts,
    Simon
     
  7. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,121
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,389
    IMO you will see an improvement in PQ useing an S-Video connection rather than composite.
    Be aware though that the S-Video lead is a video only connection, therefore you will also need to make an audio link between the 2 cameras for sound, otherwise you will have a silent movie on the DV cam.
    On my DV camcorder the 3.5mm jack is not just a standard jack connection but carries both stereo audio and composite video and is therefore requires a dedicated cable with the jack on one end and three phono plugs on the other. I would assume it to be the same on the Hi8 cam and therefore you will need 2 of these leads and a set of phono couplers to connect the 2 leads together, although if useing S-Video for the video signal you should leave the yellow phonos unconnected.

    Another thing to mention is that many DV camcorders can just connvert the analogue input to digital and output it in real time via firewire. If your DV cam can do this then there is no need to record to DV tape and then transfer to PC at a later date. This will save on tapes, wear on the DV heads and most importantly time.

    Mark.
     
  8. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,
    OK, I'm with you.
    Some more questions.
    Seems my best route is Hi8 into Canopus 100 (I have one) into PC via firewire.
    Then to make a DV tape back up of my Hi8 tapes connect my PC to the Canon DV Cam via firewire.
    This way no picture loss? Am I right?
    I have 15 Hi8 tapes so Im not worried about the heads and I have 40 odd DV tapes.
    Thanks for your patience,
    Simon
     
  9. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,121
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,389
    YES, the ADVC converters are IMO the best possible way to capture an analogue source.

    Yes, this is the way to get the footage back onto your DV cam for long term archiving.

    Going from PC to DV cam is all digital and therefore there is no loss of quality. However the capture from the Hi8 cam is analogue and therefore there will be some quality loss at this stage.

    Mark.
     
  10. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,
    Again thanks for your feedback.
    If I understand fully capture from my Hi8 would in fact be better via S Video into my Canopus ADVC 100 Vs into a Canon MV750i?
    Next question - when I put a Hi8 tape via the ADVC100 into my PC capturing in Adobe Premier 6.5 the bottom 5% of the picture at the foot of the video is not "in line" with the rest of the video. Any possible reason for this? When I burn to DVD will it be evident at that stage or is it "cut off"?
    Simon
     
  11. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,121
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,389
    Don't worry about the 5% you mention as this is the 'overscan' area that is not visible on a standard TV. This area carries things like Teletext, subtitles etc and is not part of the TV picture.

    Mark.
     
  12. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks, so when i make the final DVD this bottom 5% of the screen will not be visible when I give the DVD disc to my parents?
    Nb thanks a lot for this forum + your advice, like many others its invaluable.
    Simon
     
  13. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,121
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,389
    Correct. When played back on either a TV or even on a PC the overscan area will not be displayed. On a PC it will normally only be visible within editing software, but DVD playback software should frame the picture correctly.

    Mark.
     
  14. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,
    Thanks.
    A different question - when transfering material from my PC in *.avi format to my DV Cam via DV in - is there any difference in the quality of the material recorded by the DV Cam depending on the DV Cam spec or is this process purely "digital" with no such variable relevant?
    Simon
     
  15. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,121
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,389
    The transfer of video from PC<>DV cam is a 100% copy. There is no loss of quality at any point in the transfer, it is as you say a digital to digital copy.

    Mark.
     
  16. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,
    1. So DV in (PC into DV Cam) the quality recorded by the DV Cam is the same if the DV Cam is a £200 or a £1200 DV Cam? I would guess so since the tape is being used to record digital data.
    2. Next question when choosing to buying a DV Cam I guess the size / memory of the CCD will influence the quality of the image avalible to write to the tape in the DV Cam. If so, is there a guide to size / quality relationship so one can choose a suitable DV Cam? Eg some manufacturers quote CCD 800K, 1/6" or 2.23 mega pixcel CCD etc.
    3. 3 CCD DV Cam seems better since it splits the colours. Is this so true?
    Again I appreciate your knowledge and I hope others are able to read these messages to learn while we exchange between ourselves.
    Simo
     
  17. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,
    I have now made a DVD from:
    Source Canon Hi8 camcorder into Advc100 via S Video and audio phono into Adobe Premier 6.5 after processing to Canopus converter into tnmc writing software and lastly burn on my Dell PC with Philips DV writer.
    After all that the results look much better than I might have expected from Hi8 source. I think the Advc100 helped a lot.
    thank you for your advice Im now confirnent of converting my Hi8 collection into dv files.
    So, my question - I have now bought a Canon MV700i (with DV in capability via the 4 pin dv socket on the camcorder) and i want to transfer my dv files to the MV700i so I can remove them from my PC. I have followed the instructions to the letter but no joy. Could you walk me through it? For example do i play the dv file on the PC or "transfer" it another way?
    Again many thanks for your help. I think there will be many people asking the same question esp those who bought any of the MV700/730/750i's currently avalible on eBay UK.
    Simon
     
  18. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,121
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,389
    Simon,
    to write the DV file back to the DV camcorder via Premiere 6 (the version I use and assume Premiere Pro etc will be similar):

    Load the fottage onto the 'Timeline'
    Click on 'File' menu
    Select 'Export Timeline'
    Then select 'Export To Tape'

    The footage should then be written back to your camcorder as long as the camcorder is connected via firewire.

    Mark.
     
  19. simon10661066

    simon10661066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,
    It works very very well - I'm really very happy with this set up now.
    Here's how im using the set up.
    I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:
    In short - Hi8 tapes played on my Canon Hi8 Cam out via S Video + Photo audio out to ADVC 100 into my PC captured as a single large DV (*.avi) file. Space is not an issue since I can now transfer the file back to my Canon MV700i DV cam as a copy back up of the original Hi8 tape.
    I find the easiest way is to dump the whole Hi8 film into the pc as a single file (circa 16GB 45 mins with only 2 dropped frames!) and then edit it down by using Adobe Premier 6.5.
    Each edited part of the whole dumped file is saved as a seperate file.
    These are then converted to .JPG files and then used to make chapters for the DVD writing software.
    Then I transfer to my Canon MV700i the whole dumped Hi8 file (film) and, on a seperate tape, each of the chapters. This way all of my work is saved. Then my HDD can be cleared and the next Hi8 tape transfered.
    I'm open to any ideas you might have about improving this worklflow. Im not making a hollywood film just simple DVD's with chapters for family consumption.
     

Share This Page

Loading...