Analogue Sunset

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Interesting article over at CDR-Info commenting on the recently released 'final' specifications for AACS.

Any analog video outputs on the future Blu-ray players will be limited to SD Interlace Modes only (i.e., Composite, S-Video, 480i component), according to the final specifications of the Advanced Access Content System released by the AACS LA.

The Advanced Access Content System provides content protection for BD-ROM AV data. Until now, the specifications of the AACS protection system has been included in the so-called "interim" specifications books for pre-recorded and recordable Blu-ray discs. The Advanced Access Content System Licensing Administrator, LLC (AACS LA) relaesed the final specifications last week.

According to the new 'AACS Final Adopter Agreement' documents, any licensed Blu-ray players manufactured after December 31, 2010 shall limit analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to SD Interlace Modes only (i.e., composite video, s-video, 480i component video and 576i video).

In addition, analog video outputs will dissapear from any Blu-ray player after December 31, 2013, according to the AACS licensing agreement.

The "Analoge Sunset" rules exclude the existing models.

Nothing totally new there - we knew this was coming - but it is the first time I have seen dates specified. I believe it is also the first time that we have been told that 720p and 1080i would be excluded from legacy analogue connections. Furthermore it is interesting to note that no mention is made of analogue audio connections - presumably because a market for this is still seen as important given the dislike (from some quarters) of audio over HDMI and the lack of any other industry standard audiophile solution.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Why would you want analogue connections?
:devil:'s advocate :D
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
Why would you want analogue connections?
:devil:'s advocate :D

To save you buying a HDMI audio equipped AV amp. ie the 5.1 decoding in the player to a 5.1 bypass.
 
I forgot all about this, actually. Before the HD DVD and BD launches, the feeling was that we wouldn't be able to watch in HD over Component at all (but in reality, only a few discs had the Image Constraint Token turned on, and those were Entertainment In Video discs anyway).

Home Cinema Choice said:
The specification, which explains the technical requirements for licensing the Blu-ray format, appears to indicate that only interlaced analogue connectivity, via composite, S-Video and component, will be permitted on BD players manufactured after December 31, 2010 - so that means no 1080p via component output.
1080p via Component is disabled on all Western players anyway, isn't it? My understanding was that you had to buy from Japan to gain this.

It will be a pain for CRT projector owners I'm sure, but how many people here are using something other than HDMI anyway?
 
R

recruit

Guest
But is this just because of convenience/cost saving or do manufacturers think the best quality is digital?...or do we?:D
 
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Neither, it's all about copy protection. The people behind this stuff don't seem to have their heads screwed on; copies of BD movies are made by ripping in BD-ROM drive, which is substantially cheaper than setting up a computer with an HD capture card and fast enough set of hard disks. Still, AACS LA have been tasked with closing the "analog loophole", so it makes sense for them to do so, I guess.

I'm sure less jacks on the back of the player will save the CE companies money as well, though.
 
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Ian_S

Distinguished Member
To save you buying a HDMI audio equipped AV amp. ie the 5.1 decoding in the player to a 5.1 bypass.
I think you'll find it applies only to video ouput.

As David has pointed out, quite why anyone would bother with making a copy via component video when you can much more easily rip a BD from just about any PC seems to have passed them by. :suicide:

Still, I guess it means Fox can start making discs with ICT soon. Should make them happy at least. :devil:

I suspect this will have a much bigger impact in the US where HD component takeup was much bigger. Here it's virtually non-existent. Most HD devices here are HDMI anyway, and I'm sure that's how 99% of us are viewing Blu-ray as Nic's poll that KF's linked to shows.
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
I think you'll find it applies only to video ouput.

I hope so Ian, I can't see me getting a AV even for HDMI switching of multiple sources, I like the idea of the BD or HD sources running direct to my 1080 display. But having had experience of SACD 5.1 & DVD-A 24/96 5.1 direct into my 5.1 anlg input on my ancient but reliable AV amp, I can't wait for BD hi-res audio via the BD 5.1 outputs (Oppo 83 Region B when it arrives if it arrives :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:)
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
I hope so Ian, I can't see me getting a AV even for HDMI switching of multiple sources, I like the idea of the BD or HD sources running direct to my 1080 display. But having had experience of SACD 5.1 & DVD-A 24/96 5.1 direct into my 5.1 anlg input on my ancient but reliable AV amp, I can't wait for BD hi-res audio via the BD 5.1 outputs (Oppo 83 Region B when it arrives if it arrives :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:)
Weren't you rather strongly pro-stereo not so long ago? :)
 

CJROSS

Well-known Member
Weren't you rather strongly pro-stereo not so long ago? :)

Still am old boy :smashin: But the move to Sky HD has made adopt the 5.1 rig where my LCD resides, which is where the Oppo will go too for BD use. My one concession though is using rather natty solid walnut Diapason Emera's of my Sony QS AV amp for fronts.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
The more I think about this, the more I wonder why they are actually bothering with such restrictions anymore. There are now various means of ripping Blu-ray discs (even BD+ discs!) onto PCs which, surely, is the easiest method for pirates to copy BD discs. Even if attempts to prevent this suceeded, and I don't see how they could without completely changing the BD-Video specification, there are other hurldles.

First and foremost HDMI itself isn't that secure. There are various devices out there that will ignore the HDMI DRM and potentially allowing copying. Secondly surely a pirate who wanted to duplicate recordings would just use a player from before the change to the rules?

The only people I can see this actually causing problems is for the small group of genuine consumers with some reason for staying analogue on the video side, e.g. CRT owners!
 

iainl7

Well-known Member
Neither, it's all about copy protection. The people behind this stuff don't seem to have their heads screwed on; copies of BD movies are made by ripping in BD-ROM drive, which is substantially cheaper than setting up a computer with an HD capture card and fast enough set of hard disks.

But breaking AACS was mathematically impossible, according to everything that they said before it launched. That it turned out to be somewhat embarrassingly easy in reality doesn't seem to have really affected their plans that much.
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
Cracking the keys by trying to work one out is what's mathematically impossible.

Finding them in software that wasn't that cleverly written proved rather easier.

The problem they now face is that whilst they could revoke some keys and prevent mass playback in some cases, doing so would cost them more money than they'd save. People tend not to like their player or discs being rendered useless.

So instead you are left with periodic software player key revocation to force you into updating to play the latest titles on a PC. This is what I got fed up with as you can't simply install a PC HTPC for example without constant player software updates. And at the time, they often lagged the new releases by a few weeks. They tend not to revoke standalone player keys as these don't tend to get used to do the hacking, hence BD-Java problems aside, even old players that have had no updates in ages still play the disc.

I'm not sure you will ever see stable, update free BD playback on PC's, it's a constant game of cat and mouse.
 

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