An inconvenient truth

karkus30

Banned
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...me-the-politicians-who-cosied-up-to-them.html

Excellent article in the Telegraph as more candid truths emerge about the sorry state of political involvement in the banking sector. How Gordon Brown presided over a sector that brought in huge amounts of revenue and allowed the Labour Government to spend recklessly and the banks to lend recklessly. How he and the banks pulled the teeth of their own regulator.

Great to see that this attack isn't purely on Labour, but is also on the current Government who are treading the same dangerous path that even the bankers have decided is foolhardy.

One thing I believe to be incorrect is that the BoE is some innocent, benevolent pawn and they were just as keen to create an external regulator in order to shield them from any blame if things went wrong. They could have stepped in at any time, but the FSA gave them a get out of jail free card and the crisis has once again returned to the 'innocent' the reins of financial power.
 
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MikeTV

Distinguished Member
These HBOS people took risks that no other banks took. They alone annihilated the bank. To redirect the blame to politicians is banker apologism. My only concern is why haven't they been held to account sooner?
 

karkus30

Banned
MikeTV said:
These HBOS people took risks that no other banks took. They alone annihilated the bank. To redirect the blame to politicians is banker apologism. My only concern is why haven't they been held to account sooner?

Without political consent it would have been impossible. That there were incompetent idiots in the bank and a lack of oversight is common knowledge. If you give kids the keys to the sweet shop, encourage them to eat the sweets and look the other way when their teeth begin to rot you can't expect much else.

Its happening all over again, this time at least the kids have made their own decision that sweets are bad and most of them are down to their gums so they can even chew them.

It was a Browns great hope. They were paying 1/5 of the corporation tax, the bonuses were filling the treasury coffers. The ever ready access to enable public spending to win votes was seductive for the Labour Government and that same temptation has now been taken up by the coalition.

If you can't see this connection you must be ****ing blind. It bears our what I have been saying all along. The State and banks are one entity interfaced by the BoE, they have hands in each others pockets. No amount of regulation will prevent it, because the regulation is imposed by the very people who want to bypass it.
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
They were paying 1/5 of the corporation tax, the bonuses were filling the treasury coffers.
Which amounts to 1.6% of total tax revenues. Which is hardly filing the treasury coffers! Nice propaganda spin there, Karkus.
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
MikeTV said:
Which amounts to 1.6% of total tax revenues. Which is hardly filing the treasury coffers! Nice propaganda spin there, Karkus.

So banking which constituted 11% of GDP only contributed 1.6% of total tax revenues?

Or were you just counting corporation tax alone to minimise their importance to the economy under Gordon Brown?

Nice propaganda spin there, Mike!
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
So banking which constituted 11% of GDP only contributed 1.6% of total tax revenues?
The GDP number I have seen is 7-8% at it's peak. But in any case, corporation tax is only 8% of tax revenue. One fifth of that is 1.6%.

Not propaganda, but facts.
 

sidicks

Banned
MikeTV said:
Which amounts to 1.6% of total tax revenues. Which is hardly filing the treasury coffers! Nice propaganda spin there, Karkus.

So all this lending that they were doing didn't provide huge additional revenues from the individuals and companies borrowing the money?

Even with your anti-bank rhetoric, you can't see that??
 

karkus30

Banned
MikeTV said:
Which amounts to 1.6% of total tax revenues. Which is hardly filing the treasury coffers! Nice propaganda spin there, Karkus.

.....And the bonuses were filling the treasury coffers. No need for propaganda. Brown was doing very nicely out of the banking industry until it blew up in his face.

The study looks at UK tax payments by financial services (FS) companies in their accounting year ended in the tax year to March 2010 (2010). We estimate that for 2010 the financial sector as a whole made a Total Tax Contribution of £53.4 billion, which is 11.2% of total government tax receipts, from all taxes, for that year. The FS sector is therefore a major contributor to UK public finances.

That was 2010 after the crisis had destroyed the banking sector. 11.2% not a bad haul. Never mind the contribution to GDP.
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
Why do you people insist on producing your facts and figures? Why can't you just say "boo bankers" and go along with the rest of the mob?

Some people just don't know how to toe the line... Sheesh.
 

pragmatic

Distinguished Member
The GDP number I have seen is 7-8% at it's peak. But in any case, corporation tax is only 8% of tax revenue. One fifth of that is 1.6%.

Not propaganda, but facts.

Stamp duty from housing boom, VAT from consumer boom (and bankers spending their dosh), income tax from bank employees, NI from banks and their employees ...

Of course none of that happened ... right?

Just to be completely without doubt, none of the above could have happened without the OP.
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
.....And the bonuses were filling the treasury coffers. No need for propaganda. Brown was doing very nicely out of the banking industry until it blew up in his face.

The study looks at UK tax payments by financial services (FS) companies in their accounting year ended in the tax year to March 2010 (2010). We estimate that for 2010 the financial sector as a whole made a Total Tax Contribution of £53.4 billion, which is 11.2% of total government tax receipts, from all taxes, for that year. The FS sector is therefore a major contributor to UK public finances.

That was 2010 after the crisis had destroyed the banking sector. 11.2% not a bad haul. Never mind the contribution to GDP.
Whoah! Talk about moving goalposts! You brought up corporation tax and how it was filling treasury coffers. I told you that it represented 1.6%. I still stand by that.
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
Whoah! Talk about moving goalposts! You brought up corporation tax and how it was filling treasury coffers. I told you that it represented 1.6%. I still stand by that.

What he actually said was:

They were paying 1/5 of the corporation tax, the bonuses were filling the treasury coffers.

... but don't let that stop you selectively misquoting or quoting out of context, you're so good at it...
 

sidicks

Banned
MikeTV said:
Whoah! Talk about moving goalposts! You brought up corporation tax and how it was filling treasury coffers. I told you that it represented 1.6%. I still stand by that.

What about all the increased corporation tax from all the other businesses who benefitted from the cheap credit??
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
What he actually said was:



... but don't let that stop you selectively misquoting or quoting out of context, you're so good at it...
It doesn't make anything that I have said about their corporation tax contribution of 1.6% any less true.
 

sidicks

Banned
MikeTV said:
It doesn't make anything that I have said about their corporation tax contribution of 1.6% any less true.

:boring:
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
I haven't shifted anything. I responded to one point made by Karkus.

That you misquoted for your own purposes.

But that's fine, I know you'll never admit you're wrong, so there's not much point continuing (except I've noticed you can't help but insist on having the last word, even if that last word is the obligatory emo flounce).
 

karkus30

Banned
MikeTV said:
I haven't shifted anything. I responded to one point made by Karkus.

No you misconstrued it as you always do.

You are more wriggly than the wriggliest wriggly thing. Like the slippery eel of the forum.
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
That you misquoted for your own purposes.

But that's fine, I know you'll never admit you're wrong, so there's not much point continuing (except I've noticed you can't help but insist on having the last word, even if that last word is the obligatory emo flounce).
I didn't misquote him - I quoted him in my response! He was listing two things he felt were boosting the treasury coffers, all in one sentence. I chose to respond to one of them with the facts.

I notice that you, like many others, resort to tired, old, unoriginal, mindless, ad hominem instead of discussing any issues.
 

sidicks

Banned
MikeTV said:
I didn't misquote him - I quoted him in my response! He was listing two things he felt were boosting the treasury coffers, all in one sentence. I chose to respond to one of them with the facts.

I notice that you, like many others, resort to tired, old, unoriginal, mindless, ad hominem instead of discussing any issues.

Here we go, the usual 'poor me' whining..

(Remind me what usually follows next ..)
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
More to the point, the entire financial sector only represents 8% of GDP (and traditionally more like 6%). and that's the entire sector - not just banking. And that includes the good banks, as well as the bad ones. And yet as the crisis began, the government immediately devalued by 25% to rescue the banks. That's 25% of every pension and deposit - just to lower the liabilities of the banks. That amounts to the biggest rip-off of the century. 25% of our entire wealth - not GDP, but wealth! That's an inconvenient truth.
 

sidicks

Banned
MikeTV said:
More to the point, the entire financial sector only represents 8% of GDP (and traditionally more like 6%). and that's the entire sector - not just banking. And that includes the good banks, as well as the bad ones. And yet as the crisis began, the government immediately devalued by 25% to rescue the banks. That's 25% of every pension and deposit - just to lower the liabilities of the banks. That amounts to the biggest rip-off of the century. 25% of our entire wealth - not GDP, but wealth! That's an inconvenient truth.

??????
 

karkus30

Banned
MikeTV said:
More to the point, the entire financial sector only represents 8% of GDP (and traditionally more like 6%). and that's the entire sector - not just banking. And that includes the good banks, as well as the bad ones. And yet as the crisis began, the government immediately devalued by 25% to rescue the banks. That's 25% of every pension and deposit - just to lower the liabilities of the banks. That amounts to the biggest rip-off of the century. 25% of our entire wealth - not GDP, but wealth! That's an inconvenient truth.

But the Government didnt have anything to do with it, that's what you said you slippery eel creature person ;-) ( ad pescinum ).

It was all those dumb bankers.......you said.
 

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