An Attempt to Explain High Definition Audio

I get that bit,

I just dont understand how you can select HDMI for Audio! (sorry:suicide:)

I mean there is 1 HDMI port on the PS3 yes, My HDMI lead goes directly to the TV so how can I also select it for Audio? Other than it sending the decoded HD sound signal directly to the TV also but then you wouldnt get 5.1/7.1 etc :rolleyes:

(its kinda on topic yet not 100% so sorry if you feel this is going completely of course)
 
I mean there is 1 HDMI port on the PS3 yes, My HDMI lead goes directly to the TV so how can I also select it for Audio? Other than it sending the decoded HD sound signal directly to the TV also but then you wouldnt get 5.1/7.1 etc :rolleyes:

Exactly. in order to be able to stream the HD audio and then hear it, you must connect the HDMI output of the PS3 to a suitably equipped AV amp that has a HDMI audio enabled HDMI interface capable of handling multichannel LPCM. THe HD LPCM stream will only work via the HDMI output of the PS3 so that is the cable that must be connected to the suitable AV amp.

There is no work around, this is what you must do.

If you are asking, is it possible to get the HD audio via the optical out then the answer is no.
 
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A very basic question, to make my understanding better:

Once PCM is sent to AV reciever, either AFTER decoding ANY/ALL propitiatory formats, or direct from PCM sound track in the disc, all that reciever has to do is to decode digital to analog and amplify the signal?

is that correct? Thx in advance.
 
A very basic question, to make my understanding better:

Once PCM is sent to AV reciever, either AFTER decoding ANY/ALL propitiatory formats, or direct from PCM sound track in the disc, all that reciever has to do is to decode digital to analog and amplify the signal?

is that correct? Thx in advance.


Basically, yes, This is also true of all the other digital formats and isn't something specific to PCM or HD.

Obviously the AV amp also applies any settings such as levels and delay etc. to the signal prior to outputting it to your speakers.
 
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Exactly. in order to be able to stream the HD audio and then hear it, you must connect the HDMI output of the PS3 to a suitably equipped AV amp that has a HDMI audio enabled HDMI interface capable of handling multichannel LPCM. THe HD LPCM stream will only work via the HDMI output of the PS3 so that is the cable that must be connected to the suitable AV amp.

I'd like to jump in here if i may.Apologies if i'm in the wrong place,just joined,it does concern HDMI & hd audio.

I've just read an article from a link on this thread concerning HDMI cables.The part that interested me & might be the root of my problem,which is getting HD sound,the article said that all HDMI cables before version 1.3 cannot send HD audio sound.

Have i understood this correctly,my reason for asking is because i recently bought a Yamaha DSP-AX863SE amp,it's connected to a Panasonic BD35 blu ray player via HDMI, which outputs DTS hd master audio from the disc,but the amps display only indicates DTS sound,so is it likely that the cables i bought are not version 1.3.

Any help appreciated because it's driving me nuts
 
Exactly. in order to be able to stream the HD audio and then hear it, you must connect the HDMI output of the PS3 to a suitably equipped AV amp that has a HDMI audio enabled HDMI interface capable of handling multichannel LPCM. THe HD LPCM stream will only work via the HDMI output of the PS3 so that is the cable that must be connected to the suitable AV amp.

I'd like to jump in here if i may.Apologies if i'm in the wrong place,just joined,it does concern HDMI & hd audio.

I've just read an article from a link on this thread concerning HDMI cables.The part that interested me & might be the root of my problem,which is getting HD sound,the article said that all HDMI cables before version 1.3 cannot send HD audio sound.

Have i understood this correctly,my reason for asking is because i recently bought a Yamaha DSP-AX863SE amp,it's connected to a Panasonic BD35 blu ray player via HDMI, which outputs DTS hd master audio from the disc,but the amps display only indicates DTS sound,so is it likely that the cables i bought are not version 1.3.

Any help appreciated because it's driving me nuts

Have you turned secondry audio off in the BD35 Player? It will only send DTS (not DTS -MA) with secondary audio turned on, via bitstream.
 
Have you turned secondry audio off in the BD35 Player? It will only send DTS (not DTS -MA) with secondary audio turned on, via bitstream.

Hi. yes the 3 settings are bitstream wth secondary audio off.I've just read on another forum about others having the same problem.

His solution turned out to be connected to the resolution setting,was somehow changing from 1080i apparently,he somehow worked his way around that & is now ok.So he now believes that it is a resolution problem.

If true this might also be my problem because i still have a 36" pana crt.resolution is 576i/480i via component.The picture is 100hz & brilliant so i am reluctant to change,if the resolution is the problem might have to.

I was advised that i would still be able to get hd sound via the player & the amp & the fact i had a crt non hd tv didn't matter.

Could this be the problem because there were others with the same issue,one replaced the player & solved it that way.
 
Hi. yes the 3 settings are bitstream wth secondary audio off.I've just read on another forum about others having the same problem.

His solution turned out to be connected to the resolution setting,was somehow changing from 1080i apparently,he somehow worked his way around that & is now ok.So he now believes that it is a resolution problem.

If true this might also be my problem because i still have a 36" pana crt.resolution is 576i/480i via component.The picture is 100hz & brilliant so i am reluctant to change,if the resolution is the problem might have to.

I was advised that i would still be able to get hd sound via the player & the amp & the fact i had a crt non hd tv didn't matter.

Could this be the problem because there were others with the same issue,one replaced the player & solved it that way.

How is everything set up ---- video and audio wise to the amp and TV? Is the component input to the TV coming from the amp or the BD35?
 
How is everything set up ---- video and audio wise to the amp and TV? Is the component input to the TV coming from the amp or the BD35?

At the moment component from the player to the amp to tv,audio is hdmi from player to amp.

Have changed the component a few times so that it goes from the player straight to the tv,the problem is the same either way,audio is constant player to amp.

Not sure what this means or if it might help,when the disc is playing the bitrate is 1536kbps.
 
At the moment component from the player to the amp to tv,audio is hdmi from player to amp.

Have changed the component a few times so that it goes from the player straight to the tv,the problem is the same either way,audio is constant player to amp.

Not sure what this means or if it might help,when the disc is playing the bitrate is 1536kbps.
The manual does seem to suggest that you can connect via component video and still get HD sound (page 6 sidebar on the connecting via component section).

Have you tried conecting the BD35 directly to the TV via component for the picture and just listening to the sound via the HDMI input from the BD35 to the amp? This may prove that you can get HD audio via HDMI to the amp without any other connections to the amp from the BD35 potentially causing conflicts.

I know where you're coming from re CRT picture. I had a 32" Panny that gave a superb picture. However, I have Virgin TV and the upscaler in the V+ box produces a superb picture so with a good LCD, I don't miss the CRT at all and wouldn't even think of going back from my 40" Sony to the 32" Panny. A good source is key with LCD. Also, with LCDs, it's a matter of doing a lot of research and avoiding the ones that get poor black level results in the reviews, which some common brand leaders do.
 
The manual does seem to suggest that you can connect via component video and still get HD sound (page 6 sidebar on the connecting via component section).

Have you tried conecting the BD35 directly to the TV via component for the picture and just listening to the sound via the HDMI input from the BD35 to the amp? This may prove that you can get HD audio via HDMI to the amp without any other connections to the amp from the BD35 potentially causing conflicts.

I know where you're coming from re CRT picture. I had a 32" Panny that gave a superb picture. However, I have Virgin TV and the upscaler in the V+ box produces a superb picture so with a good LCD, I don't miss the CRT at all and wouldn't even think of going back from my 40" Sony to the 32" Panny. A good source is key with LCD. Also, with LCDs, it's a matter of doing a lot of research and avoiding the ones that get poor black level results in the reviews, which some common brand leaders do.

I've gone back to a direct connection from the bd35 to the tv,but the problem remains.

There is a thread about this bd35 issue on another forum for people with hd tvs so i'm finding it difficult to accept that the problem is the reolution of my tv.

I'm leaning toward a guys theory that the player is not switching off the secondary audio even though it reads off.

He got a refund & bought a pioneer & that worked ok.I'm thinking of asking the dealer i bought the yamaha from if he'll connect my player to his yam & an hd tv to see if it produces the same problem.

Thanks for trying to help.
 
For anyone who might have the problem i had.
I did take my bd35 to the dealer i bought the Yamaha 863 from.He connected up to his 863 & got the same sound,core DTS.He tried a new bd60 with the same result,played around for about an hour with the settings,couldn't get hd sound.
He connected a pioneer & got the hd sound first time.We gave up on mine,he said he would play around with the bd60 because it was likely that it would crop up again.He 'phoned me at home,a Pana rep had called in,he 'phoned his tech dept & they said to switch off the viera link,apparently they were aware of a conflict with the Yamaha with this on,this sorted the problem with the bd60 but not with mine because i had already done that.
My problem was sorted by updating the firmware & leaving viera link off.
 
Good to know you're up and running. I always turn all this HDMI auto stuff off anyway because I use a universal remote that automatically switches all things on that need to be on for a given activity. Maybe if I hadn't I'd have had the same problem with my Yammy and the BD35?
 
Hello,

About digital audio and all...

Q1. is this basic assumption correct? (for PCM)

recording: source(analog)-->ADC(studio)-->PCM -->DD.../DTS...encoding-->sound track on disc.
playing: sound track-->DD.../DTS...decoding--> PCM -->DAC(AVR)

now further question is:
Q2. Can various DD/DTS decoders only decode their respective DD/DTS encoding but NOT PCM? They have to pass-thru PCM to AVR?

Q3. while playing a Blu-ray disc, with a DD 5.1 decoder (not DD-HD) how many discreet channels of music will i get? i.e. sending signal to AVR via SPDIF and playing on 5.1 speaker system.

Q3.b. while playing a Blu-ray disc, with a DTS 5.1 decoder (not DTS-MA) how many discreet channels of music will i get? i.e. sending signal to AVR via SPDIF, and playing on 5.1 speaker system.

Q4.
"The Ultimate Matrix Collection Blu-ray" Audio English: Dolby TrueHD 5.1 (48kHz/16-Bit) Blu-ray.com - The Ultimate Matrix Collection Blu-ray

I thought Dolby TrueHD was 96/24? does this mean this disk's audio track will be of lower quality? does this also mean that regular Dolby TrueHD decoder decodes a 'range' from 44KHZ/16 to 96/24? Irrespective of labeling which Dolby decoder will have the ability to decode this audio stream?


and in the end, here is a result of one of my little Blu-ray research for everyone:
>>>>>Things to note about ability of your player/AVR:<<<<<<
1. Almost all concert titles are in DTS-MA 7.1, few are in PCM 5.1 and very few are in DD-HD.
2. Almost all movies are in DD-HD 5.1, some are in DTS-MA 5.1 and few are in PCM 5.1
3. more Tv series are in DTS-MA 5.1 then in DD-HD
 
ok this is all way over my head

I have one of the very first Denon 2807 av amps and a panasonic bd-35 purchased in April 09.

Am I able to get HD Audio, if so how?

Sorry to sound stupid, but when it comes to this, well I am.:oops:
 
ok this is all way over my head

I have one of the very first Denon 2807 av amps and a panasonic bd-35 purchased in April 09.

Am I able to get HD Audio, if so how?


Only in 5.1. If you connect the BD-35's 5.1 analogue output to the AVR-2807's ''Multi-Channel In'' then the Panasonic will be doing the HD Audio decoding and the Denon will just be being used as a volume control and amps.

Not a bad way of doing it at all but it is only 5.1 so you will be missing two channels. (Missing a bit strong actually, the Panasonic will send the Surround Back information to the Rears so you won't be ''missing'' anything)
 
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Cheers for your reply. 5 in 1 is good as currently that is all I have connected until my wife allows another two speakers.

Will try it out tonight:thumbsup::smashin:
 
Fabulous thread. Really appreciate the information Dante thanks very much.

What I can't understand is why the manufacturers and studios are going to these lengths - with so many different formats and ways to transport them. Great for us minority techies with a passion for home av and eeking out the best from our kit and continually upgrading but the majority haven't really got their heads around DD & DTS yet :D

I've been round to two of my friends houses recently and checked their set-up. They've both had low-mid priced 7.1 amps for over a year and have them connected using stereo phono connections :rotfl: (and using composite video cables to their HD TV's :suicide:)

I'd also be interested to know if people can tell the difference between DTS and DTS-HD in a blind test :devil:
 
What I took from those articles was that you can hear a difference with high end kit in a controlled environment.... but the difference just isn't enough to justify me spending ÂŁ1k-3.5k upgrading my amp. It's not like moving from prologic to DD/DTS...I see it more as a marketing ploy to get people to upgrade rather than offering something that's going to revolutionise my movie watching experience.

Although as a techie I hate to say this I think logic says my ÂŁ3k is better used against my mortgage :D
 
Great read!!!
 
What I took from those articles was that you can hear a difference with high end kit in a controlled environment.... but the difference just isn't enough to justify me spending ÂŁ1k-3.5k upgrading my amp. It's not like moving from prologic to DD/DTS...I see it more as a marketing ploy to get people to upgrade rather than offering something that's going to revolutionise my movie watching experience.

Although as a techie I hate to say this I think logic says my ÂŁ3k is better used against my mortgage :D

HERE HERE, i think if you delve too deeply, you end up criticising your own equipment, including your ears, so much it no longer serves the purpose it was put together for, 'the near as perfect as you can get' reproduction of movie and music sound tracks, with the aim of pulling you into the sonic image. I know the facts and figures, but trying to justify a new purchase based on the latest HD audio formats has never been more difficult!
 
The real question is " What kind of people can tell the difference between HD audio and standard 5.1/6.1/7.1 ?" The answer is not very straight forward, if you have some mates over & their only real experience with homecinema is at your place the chances are the only difference to them is what you tell them! If,however, it's a room full of AV enthusiasts then most should be able to tell. It's very rule of thumb,i know, but look at it this way, if your Great, Great, Grandfather came back today he would be blown away by DOLBY PRO LOGIC, we in the UK have only recently embraced multi-channel audio. And HD sound and vision has been a US/JAPANESE staple for some time(i first read about US DOLBY DIGITAL or AC-3 television broadcasts 10plus years ago), Hi-Def ,STATESIDE, has been a reality a damn sight longer than over here, but this same debate rumbles on over there too. If it's an improvement you can blatantly hear then lucky you, if however you really can't tell the difference no problem.
 
The real question is " What kind of people can tell the difference between HD audio and standard 5.1/6.1/7.1 ?" The answer is not very straight forward, if you have some mates over & their only real experience with homecinema is at your place the chances are the only difference to them is what you tell them!


Surely people invest in audio for their listening and not in order to try impress their friends?

Who gives a damn about what their friends perceive, it is you who has to pay for it and you who will be listening to it the most ;)
 
Hi DANTE01, I agree with you.You pays your money you makes your choice, my point is aimed at those who lose sight of why they have what they have. The 'mates' comment was an example of just how far more informed we may be compared with the average UK based consumer on matters AV related. Also i must admit, i am an informed consumer verging on fanatical when it comes to what i listen to. But i always remember what my system is for.
 

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