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An all round projector

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by BigTone, Jun 6, 2003.

  1. BigTone

    BigTone
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    Dear All,

    I'm looking for a projector that will by useful for both PC presentations and also home cinema, so I need a trade off.
    Any idea's - price would be nice unc=der 2K

    Tony
     
  2. BigTone

    BigTone
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    Doh - I was looking at the wrong forum :)
     
  3. Taz

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    [Moved from Gaming]:lesson:
     
  4. Messiah

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    Firstly I would say you should most definitely consider LCD NOT DLP. You never know who in your audience will be affected by rainbows etc from DLPs.

    So, from the current LCD crop my favourite, although just outside your price range, would be the Epson TW100. High Res panel, great for displaying Windows apps and fantastic with Home Cinema. If you want any screen shots let me know as I took a load last night with my unit.

    And by the way, I am not biased toward it as the one I have is going back for no reason other than I bought it while waiting for an LPX500 from Japan. The LPX turned up the day before the TW100 (isn't that just sod's law) so am returning it for a credit - unless someone wants to buy it - check the Classifieds :)
     
  5. pcavelle

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    I would certainly recommend you look at DLP & not LCD. I've never seen an LCD without 'chicken wire', blurs and slightly muted colours.

    Paul
     
  6. calscot

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    DLP is good for pc demos as they are light and portable, bright, and have high contrast ratios. This is especially true if they have a clear segment in their color wheel.

    Their biggest drawback for home cinema is the well documented rainbow effect which affects a minority of people (including me). This causes very distracting flashes of colour when you move your eyes to different parts of the screen. Some people also get headaches.

    If rainbows don't affect you or your friends then the projector aimed axactly at your sector of the market is the Infocus X1 which has an internet price of about £1100. It has SVGA resolution.

    A much brighter but more expensive DLP model with XGA resolution would be the NEC LT260 at about £2500.

    Check out projector central recommendations.

    As the TW100 is supposed to be £2200 now and has WXGA resolution, it's probably your best LCD bet, although it might not be very bright for presentions with much ambiant light. Another one worth looking at would be the Sony HS10 which is also WXGA and a few hundred pounds cheaper.

    Cheers,
    Cal.

    Cheers,
    Cal.
     
  7. calscot

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    I don't think this is very useful advice.

    WXGA projectors are pretty much accepted as having no noticable chicken wire effect (and less than an SVGA DLP).

    LCD has a reputation for being sharper than DLP - in fact a lot of people prefer DLP for home cinema because of that! A WXGA LCD will definitely be sharper than an XGA DPL while watching widescreen cinima due to it's higher resolution - 1.8 times, and it uses 2.7 times as many pixels as an SVGA projector.

    LCD is usually considered to have richer colours than DLP, especially red.

    DLP does have some advantages over LCD, but keep it real.

    Cheers,
    Cal.
     
  8. Messiah

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    Cal

    Glad someone else said it. Not sure how many LCD pjs he has seen. The later ones give DLP a damn fine run for their money without the horrible side effects (rainbows, temporal dithering, video noise) - which I accept not everyone is affected by.

    Although I recognise LCD's are not perfect either but then which pj is? But then a thread like this will always attract subjective views from those who prefer their technology - and nothing wrong with that :) Just remember to take it all with a pinch of salt as there is only one person who can ultimately decide which pj is right for them - the viewer!
     
  9. pcavelle

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    Rightly said Neil, but I have seen quite a few LCDs inc. most recent Sony's, Sanyo's etc (not the TW100 though). I thought none were as sharp as DLP though.

    I will try to keep it more real though from now on!
     
  10. Messiah

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    Hi Paul

    It's funny how subjective this business is. I have had both a HT1000 and MT8 and felt both were way softer than my TW100 or LPX, which does, IMO, make them a bit more film like. But of course, you can always defocus an LCD a tad and hey presto ;)

    Not sure which models you have seen but guess the Sanyo was maybe the Z1 where SD is a bit of an issue due to it's low res panel. I would honestly say that the SD (when very close to the screen) on a TW100 or LPX500 is less noticeable than a HT1000 (again due to panel res) but maybe slightly more noticeable than an MT8. However, soon as you move back to normal viewing distances it is gone completely, just like with a DLP.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a DLP image but unfortunately for me, and others, the side effects just make them non contenders (shame :( )

    Everyone to their own and it's always a compromise. Just like life I guess :D
     
  11. gwbailey

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    Hi Messiah,

    Could you please tell me which Screen you use or which you think would be best with the TW100 or LPX500?

    Regards,
     
  12. Technophobe

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    I'm a DLP fan myself, but I must admit that for under £2K the DLP units are pretty crap compared to LCD. Low price DLP units suffer from megga rainbows and noisy blacks. Mid to high end kit is a different matter though, LCD is good, but still can't match the all important contrast range of DLP. High end DLP units use very fast colour wheels so you will not see rainbows, and use equally high res panels as LCD PJ's use.:p
     
  13. Messiah

    Messiah
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    You don't include HT1000 and MT8 as high end then eh :D The MT8 has given me the worst eyestrain and headaches I have had in years. 3 weeks later and I still now suffer from eyestrain when watching any illuminated display thanks to the MT8. Hopefully it is short term but to put it bluntly it has completely knackered my eyes :mad:

    I also see rainbows constantly on the HT1000 and if looking for them all the time on the Marantz S2 also. Not really sure what you mean by high end then. Sweeping statements like that won't help people like me who may be tempted to buy sight unseen after reading such comments and then find out they still see them and are nauseated by them. Just be careful how you comment on a very subjective subject :eek:
     
  14. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Best I think would be the Firehwk screens from Stewart but to be honest I think with their price you are moving into diminishing returns area. I have seen the TW100 on botha Firehawk and obviosuly on my Owl 8ft 1.3 gain white screen and maybe side by side one would be better than the other but by memory I would say I could not notice any difference.

    Now, that is not to malign the Stewart or say it's no good or not worth the money (I'm sure it must be) just that on my Owl screen the TW100 and LPX500 look stunning.
     
  15. Technophobe

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    Messiah

    Sorry can't comment on the MT8 or the HT1000 both these are new kids on the block so to speak, but I do own a Sharp 9000 and have also borrowed a Sim Ht300, and a Marantz VP12-S1 and none suffered from rainbows, and no one who has seen my sharp has ever seen them either. I think you must be in the minority of people who suffer from them.
    But this is all irrelevant as "BigTone" is looking to spend under £2K anyhow. My point was to inform that not all DLP are the same, as they seem to get bad press from the people that have seen the low spec units.

    Technophobe
     
  16. Messiah

    Messiah
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    No probs. What I was trying to point out was just because you or your family/friends have not seen rainbows does not mean they (DLP pjs) do not suffer from them.

    DLP as a technology exhibits this trait but only to those people who do suffer from being able to see them. So it's not whether the pj suffers from them or not it's whether the viewer suffers from them or not. Some people even see them on CRT (I did once or twice on my Barco 701s but thought "don't be stupid")

    If I can see them very easily on the S2 I feel sure (but cannot guarantee as I have not seen one) that I would certainly be able to see them on the S1.

    All I have ever said is if anyone is considering getting a DLP projector ensure you have an extended (2 hours plus and much longer if possible) viewing in your own environment (as environment can also make a big difference). If you are lucky enough not to see them then you will be rewarded with a fantastically smooth image. But also remember that WXGA LCD pjs are damned close and have strengths as well as weaknesses compared to DLP.

    Just for me I suffer badly from them now (didn't used to :mad: ) and could therefore not take the risk that family/friends would too.
     
  17. gwbailey

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    Sorry but I think it's abit higher than a minority Technophobe! (IMHO) ;)

    Thanks Messiah;)
     
  18. Technophobe

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    Messiah

    Yep I agree it's vital to check before you buy, but I do think some are being put off by all the overstated rainbow posts from people that have only seen low spec units.
    BTW Both the MT8 and HT1000 are listed at under £5000 so can not be considdered high end, but I do take you point none the less.


    Technophobe
     
  19. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Well considering the Z9000 can be bought for sub £3k I'm not really sure what you would consider high end. Those being put off by posts about rainbows can only be those who are considering buying without an extended demo, so dare I say it, they should have no sympathy (not that any of them would be looking for any).

    I can't really understand why you are being so strong in your opinions on DLP. I have always said and will always say that both LCD and DLP have their high and low points. I do not believe one is any better or any worse than another. They are different and need to be viewed and just as you say people are being put off by negative posts about rainbows I also cannot condone your posts saying high end pjs do not suffer from them.

    How much more high end can you get above the Marantz S2. Nothing wrong with any of them, just check 'em out first.
     
  20. gwbailey

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    Messiah, that makes four of us that have seen rainbows on CRT's and counting! (Me,You,Nigel and Fulabeer)

    When I first seen them on CRT's i too thought i was going mad, I even mentioned it on these forums some time ago and got abit of stick but I know what I saw!
    :D

    That's why I was keeping an eye on Sony's SXRD but the price is far too high...so maybe it's a cheap LCD for now and wait for SXRD to come down in price.

    Regards,
     
  21. Technophobe

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    Sub £3K delivered?
    Can I have the link, I've a number of interested people that would go for it at that price. This unit is still over £7K in the UK as far as I've seen. Unless you've seen better.

    Technophobe
     
  22. Messiah

    Messiah
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    http://www.pricejapan.com $4611 = £2767 plus vat (c. £175) = total c. £2942
     
  23. Messiah

    Messiah
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    That's exactly why I've gone for the LPX (£2400 but remmebr this is not a cheap LCD - UK retail £4800) and I'll jump ship when the technology (DLP or other) improves and comes down in price. I reckon about 12 months.
     
  24. Technophobe

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    :nono: £2942 + import duty @ 14%=£3353
    Then add 17.5% VAT = £3940.

    For a non EU model with dubious warrantee.

    Still a good deal though if your willing to take some risks.


    Technophobe
     
  25. Messiah

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    Technophobe

    Check your facts before you post :)

    1. Projectors (Computer display devices) attract no import duty. They are rated at 0%
    2. My calc above already included vat (at 50% marked down cost)

    So my figures above still stand
     
  26. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I'd also like to point out that in my experience both LCD and DLP have poor coloromitry, especially in REDS. Unless of course you are looking at units designed more specifically for Home Theatre and even then until recently most of these had lime greens and orange reds.

    Gordon
     
  27. Technophobe

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    Messiah

    Since the Sharp 9000 as marketed and sold as a "Home Cinema Projector" and is clearly identified as such on it's packaging it is highly likely that customs will apply 14% duty and not the 0% that computer displays attract. There have been plenty of posts here in the past from people who have been surprised by the 14% Duty and the 17% VAT slapped on to what they thought was a bargain. I seem to recall you replying to a member who had imported a Sharp 10000 with this very problem not so long ago!

    Technophobe
     
  28. Messiah

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    Yep, and please read my response in that thread.

    LCD projectors ("Video projectors operating by means of a flat panel display (for example, a liquid crystal device)" are classified at 0%. There is no mention in the document referenced in that post that Home Cinema projectors are classified in any other way. As far as I can see :)
     
  29. Technophobe

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    Yes and it clearly states 0% Duty applies to flat panel computer display devices only. The Sharp is sold as a Home Cinema Display and not a Computer display device and so falls in to the "Other" catagory which has 14% Duty applied and then 17.5% on top of the duty. I would think customs and excise must be getting wise of the emergence of HC Projectors.
    BTW Did the membe in question get a refund of the duty?

    Technophobe
     
  30. Messiah

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    Don't know. He's gone very quiet. Not sure if that is a good sign or a bad one. Guess it comes down to luck of the draw then as I know there are many here who have been charged VAT only. Guess I'll have to wait and see :) :(
     

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