An Actual Panel Comparison (cmo Auo S-pva) For The R87 & R88!!!

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs Forum' started by allazey_uk, Apr 22, 2007.

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  1. allazey_uk

    allazey_uk
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    Ok, after spending a whole day looking at and comparing approximately 50 R87/R88's of differing sizes in 15-20 shops... my comparision between the CMO and AUO/SPVA panels is......

    I would say that there is NO noticable difference in picture quality. Colours and sharpness looked pretty much exactly the same for all three panels.
    However I did notice a slight difference when viewing the screen from an angle. The CMO panel lost some of its black quality and appeared slightly grey/dark blue. BUT ONLY SLIGHTLY!! And that was from a very accute angle, and I can't imagine a time when you'd ever want to watch TV from such a position.
    Other than that, the only other difference I could notice was when looking at the screen from point blank range, so I could see the actual pixels. (I was getting weird looks from other shoppers whilst doing it!).
    The pixels on the CMO appear to be in sort of a 'brickwork' pattern (like the positioning of bricks and how they are laid in a wall). It seemed that due to this pixel pattern if there was a vertical line on the channel being viewed it would cause the line to lose its sharp edge. Where as the SPVA and AUO pixels are all directly in line with each other (like a chessboard), so vertical lines remain very sharp. But again I would say that you'd never really be sitting close enough to the TV to ever notice this.

    The final difference I noticed goes in the favour of the CMO. All of the screens were on the default settings and the CMO had the best colour. Its reds and greens were definitely more rich.

    Looking at CMO's website it appears they have a new panel, an SMVA. http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/technology/technology.jsp?flag=20030304111754
    When I emailed samsung to ask which panels are used for the R87/R88 they told me it was the SPVA, AMVA (AUO), SMVA (CMO).
    Judging by what I have seen and what Samsung have said, it implies that the R87s have this new CMO panel. So seeing CMO on the TV's label might not be such a bad thing anymore (as it was with the R74).
    I definitely COULD NOT see any shortfall in picture quality when comparing it to the AUO and SPVA, apart from the minor points (IMO) thats i've mentioned.
     
  2. thomashansen

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    very good to hear, as im probably going to buy a LE32R88 soon
     
  3. Blackbolt360

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    Last night I packed away my CMO3, 32 Inch R73. I haven't been happy for months with its black levels, contrast and sharpness, specifically in VGA for 360.

    This morning I exchanged it for a R88. Firstly the newly added Black Level settings and Home Theatre PC options for the R88 make the black levels for viewing 10x better than the R88 out of the box. I also adust backlighting a little and disabled dynamic dimming. I have a black level is excellent, you can only see the 'purple/grey' tone of it in the pitch dark, but even then its totally bareable.

    First thing I noticed was I have an AMO1 screen. I didn't actually check this untill after I had already plugged everything in and done the initial setup for freeview etc, the first image to come on was BBC1 and it looked slightly grainy, when moving through, I came to the BBC3 or BBC4 red placeholder page and it was clear as anything. The Red isnt overbearing, thats something I noticed right away. Although rich colours are awesome, they aren't realistic. I thought there was something wrong untill I started looking at Digital photos through my PC and I could see that the colour on the screen matched real life as far as my eye could tell.

    Xbox 360 is now so sharp, I am extremely happy. I have tried a few games, Gears of War, PGR3, Pro Evo plus alot of HD videos. All look alot more detailed and sharper. That was a major benefit over my older tv.

    The main difference is the quality of the image, its not as washed out, its got correct colours and just looks so much better with SD inputs, Freeview alike. I can now watch my Virgin Cable box through Scart without being annoyed with the artifacting, as its all but un-noticeable.

    So the R88 is at least a 300% improvement for me so far. Black Levels, Sharpness and Movie Plus is awesome for movies, it adds super sharp clear video to stuff that annoyed me before.

    I am 90% satisfied with my settings now, just need to wait untill others get the R88 and get some good settings combinations as theres so many settings in the standard menus now, no need to go into the Service menu anymore, only to disable the Dimming.
     
  4. allazey_uk

    allazey_uk
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    So you have a R88 with a AMO1 panel...... is that a 32" R88???
     
  5. Blackbolt360

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    37"
     
  6. rondha

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    This is AMAZING.
    I am thinking of selling my Sony 40V2500 (with bad Halo problems) and buying this one.

    _
     
  7. allazey_uk

    allazey_uk
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  8. MrMister111

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    I knew nothing abut these panel differences before reading on here, my choice was about cost.

    I settled on a 40" R87 over the 40" R74 purely that the R74 was older and I thought that the R87 willbe next gen panel, technology etc (it also had 3 HDMIs over 1 on R74)

    I am awaiting it coming tomorrow (unless Empire Direct fail on the delivery AGAIN)

    I will post what panel I get
    cheers
     
  9. allazey_uk

    allazey_uk
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    On a 40" you're bound to have a S-PVA or AMVA.
    Good luck! Let us know what you get.
     
  10. MrMister111

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    And thats the best you can get yeh?

    In terms of actual watching performance why id S-PVA better than the CMO panels please? ie no technology speak what is better/worse onthem?

    cheers
     
  11. Blackbolt360

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    The image is crisper, looks less blurry. Doesn't look like you are watching it through smoke. The colours are more realistic, like watching through a window, not watching through a red sweetie wrapper haha.

    CMO is just inferior, colour, sharpness, black looks purple/grey, not matter what setting you use.
     
  12. allazey_uk

    allazey_uk
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    It's hard to say whether or not the newer CMO's have the 'smokey' 'unclear' 'grey blacks' problems associated with the older CMO's.
    But like I said, I didn't see any noticeable differences between any of the panels I saw.
    And from what I have read on various sites the newer CMO S-MVA is a next generation panel, as are the S-PVA and A-MVA, and is on par with them in terms of quality and viewing angels.
     
  13. masterwai

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    hey mate ehy do you insist on defending the inferior cmo panal in all threads related to this topic? surely once is quite enough?

    are you sure you dont work for samsung or the panal manufacturer?

    Anybody reading this should ignore all posts from this guy.

    Everybody else agrees that the cmo panal is of inferior quality and is no way on par with the spva panals.
     
  14. allazey_uk

    allazey_uk
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    And why do you insist on trying to stop me from giving my opinion on what I have seen when physically looking at the CMO panel R8. What happened to freedom of speech MATE?!?!?

    "Everybody should ignore my posts"?? Are you an idiot???
    I am not telling people to buy or like the CMO. All I am doing is saying don't write it off purely based on what people are saying about the older panel.
    There are some people that will be scared off of buying a samsung because of whats written here... i was one. But after actually seeing it in action I for one will be buying one no matter which panel it has!

    Masterwai, I'm not sure what other way I can put this to get through to you!!! Everybody has agreed that the OLD CMO panels are inferior.... yes! But the R8 has the NEW CMO panel in it.

    People should have a look at it first if they can, and if they like it BUY/KEEP IT..... if they don't like it then DON'T!! Simple as that!

    Masterwai, Now that i've cleared that up can you stop following me around these threads. Joker. :hiya:
     
  15. JJK80

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    I think that it's very difficult (almost impossible) to compare television's black level and uniformity in shops, you wouldn't also notice possible backlight leaks in shops, because in shops they use very bright lighting (usually fluorescent lamps).

    But you will notice those things at home, at evening/night, when is darker.
     
  16. Blackbolt360

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    masterwai, I totally agree with you on the CMO inferior subject, but there is no need to act like an asshole. allazey_uk has every right to post his opinions/findings in this forum.
     
  17. Yannis

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    I thought of posting some pics so that you can see the difference in viewing angles and color washout between several different panel technologies. The photos are taken from PC monitors and the picture is not directly comparable to TVs cause for example for television use we have S-PVA instead of PVA , S-IPS instead of IPS ect. but you can get the point.

    The attachments are from left to right P-MVA , ΙPS , PVA.

    AUO untill last year made P-MVA panels but they have switched to A-MVA now which are much better and almost as good as S-PVA panels.
    CMO will switch to VA-extreme panel technology soon which is a huge improvement over S-MVA.

    All the pics are taken from here:

    http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/619/
     

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  18. KeanosMagicHat

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    Haven't read this article yet but should be an interesting addition to the debate.

    HDTVtest have just published the first part if their review of a CMO panelled R87.

    This is my post from the generic Samsung new model thread.

    _________________________


    Samsung LE32R87BDX Review Pt 1 by the guys at HDTVtest:

    Intro - http://www.*/news/2007/05/01/samsung-le32r87bdx-review-part-1/

    Review - http://www.*/Samsung-LE32R87BDX/

    Tried (albeit briefly) to find a separate thread for the R87 range so if anyone wants to add the above links to such a thread, feel free.

    Interestingly enough they have a CMO panel.

    _______________

    EDIT - OK, I've just read it and the real meat of the review has yet to be posted ....... one to keep an eye on over the next few days though as he makes specific reference to the "panel lottery" in the intro.
     
  19. JJK80

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    Yannis,

    BeHardware have made little mistake there, because Samsung SyncMaster 215TW's panel is actually S-PVA, not PVA.
    http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=208F1226-D085-4379-BDC9-7A5D0AD928F0


    PS. I had that monitor for a day, but I returned it, because there were light leakage in the corners.

    I didn't also liked the stand, because it's screen holder were very narrow and when you height adjusted the screen to it's top position, the monitor looked little silly.
     
  20. jimbobsam07

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    I Have a CMO panel on my LE32R88 and thinks its fantastic
     
  21. mat060572

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    Yannis - have you answered my question?

    Hi

    I believe that Samsung do not make 37" panels and are probably using AUO panels (as I believe CMO only make a full HD 37" panel).

    I am trying to find out if the 37" (which seems to be using AUO panels) are using either their Premium MVA panel or A-MVA panel.

    They have 2 models on their website

    T370XW01 which is the P-MVA and

    T370XW02 which is the A-MVA.

    So you say they are no longer supplying the P-MVA panel. Is this true?

    Can we conclude that the 37R8 range has an AUO A-MVA panel?


    :lease:
     
  22. allazey_uk

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    I think we can conclude that the R8's come with A-MVA panels. Or so Samsung say!!!

    According to "honest" Samsung the only panels used in the R8 are S-PVA, A-MVA, and S-MVA.
     
  23. Yannis

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    Hi mat , from what i have been reading in this forum the 32" panels are mainly CMO and the 37" panels are AUO. To be 100% certain you can try to check with the sticker on the side or in the back of the TV.

    @ JJK80

    S-PVA (=Super PVA) is more advanced than PVA. The difference is in the sub-pixel structure:

    [​IMG]

    Same goes for S-IPS which is an impoved IPS panel. Usually S-PVA panels are not used in monitors cause they are more expensive than PVA , IPS , PMVA and TN.
     
  24. mat060572

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    All will be revealed very soon when I take delivery of my panel today.

    Just wondered if there was a visable diff between their S-MVA and A-MVA panels.

    I will have a sneaky look in the service menu too.
     
  25. allazey_uk

    allazey_uk
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    Sorry, I didn't make it clear............ the A-MVA is by AUO, and the S-MVA is by CMO.

    So if you see a "C" on the label then its PROBABLY a S-MVA (but maybe just an MVA!?!?!)... and if you see an "A" then it IS a A-MVA
     
  26. mat060572

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    my mistake - I meant visable diff between P-MVA and A-MVA - both by AUO

    CMO do not make a 37" panel with the same resolution (only a 1920x1080).
     
  27. allazey_uk

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    Oh ok..
    Well I've never seen a P-MVA. Every post I've read from people with AUO panels i think have assumed it was an A-MVA, and all seem to describe it in the same way.... i.e. >>>> pixels.
    Other than the pixel shape I can't really see what other obvious 'visible' difference there could be.
    :lease:
     
  28. KeanosMagicHat

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    This review has now been completed.

    Off to read the rest of it now.

    http://www.*/Samsung-LE32R87BDX/


    EDIT - Well it seems the only real negative comment he had (and this may not be specific to the CMO panel) was that the viewing angle was less than 100 degrees. Looks like these panels have improved from earlier versions.
     
  29. 1001

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    Yes, PROBABLY! It is my main concern about. I've got LE32R86 in Italy. On the back it is "C", and CMO2 other label. In hiden menu it is CMO_INT. See foto of manu and pixel attached. And I really can't (won't) believe that Samsung just put the old MVA panel into their new R seria. Is there any way to figure it out. As for me it is really unfair to make us pay the same prise for the model with seach different pannels. orrff. :mad:
     

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  30. Apprentice5

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    I'm totally with 1001, bought a very similar set 32R87 a few weeks ago in Sweden and got increasingly annoyed with the viewing angle that was supposed to be ok. It boasts 178 degrees according to specifications but isn't even 100 in the real world. You got to sit exactly in front of the set to get the really good picture (and then it is really good indeed).

    Since I don't find this acceptable for a modern LCD I started to look around the forums for clues. Differing panel types seems to be the key, and here I am.

    Like 1001 I checked out the service menu, it says CMO-INT. So I have an unspecified CMO panel, not necessarily a bad thing but it really feels like a got the short end of the stick.

    This is since the picture from my set viewed from an angle is very similar to what you see on the left on this picture that displays CMO's newer display technology to the right: http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/technology/technology.jsp?flag=20030304111754

    That is, it would indicate that I got the older panel technology in my set. It is very difficult to tell for certain of course. I guess picture settings matters for one thing, and advertising is advertising.

    To get to the bottom of this, serious independent tests of the different R8 versions have to be performed in a controlled environment to get hard evidence of the differences. The way I see it we are talking about fundamental properties of the product that are defining for the series as such, one of the reasons people choose R8 instead of something else. Useful viewing angle is extremely significant to me.
     

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