Amplification questions

Exeon

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I'm currently "demoing" a full set of Focal, specifically the Aria 948 line (5.1 setup)
They were on a huge sale, and I couldn't let this chance slip by, I have 30 days to test them or send them back.
I believe If I keep these, I need much better amplification to get the most out of them.

I currently own a denon X2400h which is not really meant to power these speakers.....
The denon doesn't have any pre-outs so I'll be needing something else entirely.

Room size is around 3500 cubic feet, we sit at about 3,5m from the speakers
The volume on my avr is usually between -3 and +1 db
I believe currently my use case is 70% home cinema 30% music
My budget is 2000€

Am I better off going for a "higher end" AVR, or should I go for a cheaper one and add a stereo amplifier?
For instance I "could" get a NAD M22 for around 1200€ and pair it up with a marantz SR5015 and I'd be in my budget.

I'm not looking for "louder" but I believe I have no headroom left, which isn't going to help
But there are a lot of different forms of amplification that I don't fully understand, about everyone in the audiophile world will tell me I need better amplification, but at the same time I'm a cheaper stereo amplifier will sound better than most AVR's for music purposes, while their output may be a lot less.

I also don't know much about Ohms, I know the Aria's are technically 8 ohm, but can go as low as 2,5 ohm, though I don't know why, or when, and how this impacts me as my amplifcation doesn't go below 6ohm
 
I'm currently "demoing" a full set of Focal, specifically the Aria 948 line (5.1 setup)
They were on a huge sale, and I couldn't let this chance slip by, I have 30 days to test them or send them back.
I believe If I keep these, I need much better amplification to get the most out of them.

I currently own a denon X2400h which is not really meant to power these speakers.....
The denon doesn't have any pre-outs so I'll be needing something else entirely.

Room size is around 3500 cubic feet, we sit at about 3,5m from the speakers
The volume on my avr is usually between -3 and +1 db
I believe currently my use case is 70% home cinema 30% music
My budget is 2000€

Am I better off going for a "higher end" AVR, or should I go for a cheaper one and add a stereo amplifier?
For instance I "could" get a NAD M22 for around 1200€ and pair it up with a marantz SR5015 and I'd be in my budget.

I'm not looking for "louder" but I believe I have no headroom left, which isn't going to help
But there are a lot of different forms of amplification that I don't fully understand, about everyone in the audiophile world will tell me I need better amplification, but at the same time I'm a cheaper stereo amplifier will sound better than most AVR's for music purposes, while their output may be a lot less.

I also don't know much about Ohms, I know the Aria's are technically 8 ohm, but can go as low as 2,5 ohm, though I don't know why, or when, and how this impacts me as my amplifcation doesn't go below 6ohm

First you shouldn`t buy the Focal subwoofer that comes with the package. The compact 12" sealed subwoofer is not really ideal for 3500cuft room for 70% use being cinema. There should be better options. Just me tell me how much you can spend for subwoofer and finish/size requirements etc. and i will let you know.

If you are looking to purchase poweramp you should ideally buy at least 3channel version to power LCR which is were most what you hear comes from. Example Emotiva XPA G3 3ch 1500€ or if they have the new BassX range A3. The catalog of Belgium distributor only has the old models listed so you need to contact them. The 2nd link has the new A3 model. It will push 200w for 4ohm load and has fairly large capacitors. Should be plenty for the Aria LCR taking the largest strain off from your receiver and then you can power the rest of channels from av-receiver. The A3 should be lot cheaper than XPA model (500$ in US).


Sadly you need to up your budget for av-receiver. The SR5015 wouldn`t make any sense at all coming from X2400H. It`s basically same model internally, just a newer version with few Marantz tweaks. You would be paying ridiculous amount of money just to get preouts. You need to jump at least to Denon X3700H / Marantz SR6015 which are fairly similar ones. You do get the extra channels for 5.2.4/9.2 and 11.2 processing (7.2.4) for future, little bit extra power and the highest version of Audussey which has audible difference to the one in 5015! So these two models would be the minium. Yamaha RX-A4A could be option aswell if you are ok with 7.2 for long term, but it may be out of your budget.

 
I agree about the sub. You will be better off buying from a specialist sub manufacturer. The jump from the X2400 to an amp with pre-outs is pretty substantial money wise. Staying with Denon that will be the X3700. Not the most powerful and in a room of your size and the levels you are currently listening at a power amp could yield dividends.

Your 30% music throws something of a spanner into the works. I simply don't like AV amps, Denon in particular, in how they deal with stereo music. They are fine for casual listening but if you want to sit down and really concentrate on and enjoy the music they are pretty poor. Adding a power amp is not going to solve these shortcomings.

You know the answer is going to be to pair a stereo amp with HT by-pass for music and to add that extra headroom to the front left and right. That is going to take a big chunk of your budget unless you opt for one of the better amps for music and film in one box. NAD is one as is Arcam.

One option would be to make the upgrades gradually, leaving the stereo amp for the future and look for a better, more powerful AV amp. Denon and Marantz by association, maybe bringing out new models and that is usually the cue for dealers to reduce the prices of the current crop and the Denon X4700, maybe even the X6700, could come into play. Both of these are very good amps. Perhaps then give it a few weeks for the amp purchase.
 
First you shouldn`t buy the Focal subwoofer that comes with the package. The compact 12" sealed subwoofer is not really ideal for 3500cuft room for 70% use being cinema. There should be better options. Just me tell me how much you can spend for subwoofer and finish/size requirements etc. and i will let you know.
I agree about the sub. You will be better off buying from a specialist sub manufacturer. The jump from the X2400 to an amp with pre-outs is pretty substantial money wise.
Current sub is not from focal, Monolith 15", second sub is a no go due to wife, unless I would go for 2x10" or maybe 12" from a different brand.
If you are looking to purchase poweramp you should ideally buy at least 3channel version to power LCR which is were most what you hear comes from. Example Emotiva XPA G3 3ch 1500€ or if they have the new BassX range A3. The catalog of Belgium distributor only has the old models listed so you need to contact them. The 2nd link has the new A3 model. It will push 200w for 4ohm load and has fairly large capacitors. Should be plenty for the Aria LCR taking the largest strain off from your receiver and then you can power the rest of channels from av-receiver. The A3 should be lot cheaper than XPA model (500$ in US).


Sadly you need to up your budget for av-receiver. The SR5015 wouldn`t make any sense at all coming from X2400H. It`s basically same model internally, just a newer version with few Marantz tweaks. You would be paying ridiculous amount of money just to get preouts. You need to jump at least to Denon X3700H / Marantz SR6015 which are fairly similar ones. You do get the extra channels for 5.2.4/9.2 and 11.2 processing (7.2.4) for future, little bit extra power and the highest version of Audussey which has audible difference to the one in 5015! So these two models would be the minium. Yamaha RX-A4A could be option aswell if you are ok with 7.2 for long term, but it may be out of your budget.


You know the answer is going to be to pair a stereo amp with HT by-pass for music and to add that extra headroom to the front left and right. That is going to take a big chunk of your budget unless you opt for one of the better amps for music and film in one box. NAD is one as is Arcam.
I agree on the receiver, a friend recommended the SR5015 for the pre-outs, but throwing in a 200-300€ means more power, Audyssey XT32, and a whooping 11 channels processing over 7, also dual sub processing.

This kinda confirms what I was fearing, I won't have enough budget to do both.
Personally as I'm not going to need auro 3D, spending an extra 500-1000€ for the X4700/X6700 over the x3700 doesn't seem worth it unless you use other features apart from the stereo capabilites.

As it stands I'll probably get the X3700H (or equivalent if denon comes out with new receivers.....) and add a stereo amp down the line.
 
Like myself you have a 5.1 setup so purchasing a 11 channel processor means your spending money on thing you don't need.

I had pair focal aria 906 speakers for some years and they are very fine sounding, the 948 being a lot more of everything and idea for rooms of 30m2 plus and the listener 3.5m away. When choosing my current speaker I did audition the aria 926 as these are meant for 20m2 rooms more in line with my room.

Now when they say 8 ohm they been there is a dip to 2.5 ohm that will means you need a decent AV to get the best from them else they sound slightly flat as noted from the dealer demos.

I have an Arcam AV20 which had no problem thundering out great deep bass from them with a lovely top end. Like you I found a great deal on, but on Kef R700s and went that way.

If you stick with Denon they you need at least the X3700h which as things are these days is much more pricy than in years gone by. The AV20/21 I have is a stonking £3,800 (which is £1,300 over what I paid) and also well over your budget, but I see the NAD 778 can be had for £2,500 slightly over your budget but the Dirac live will be idea for controlling all that bass.
 
The catalog of Belgium distributor only has the old models listed so you need to contact them. The 2nd link has the new A3 model. It will push 200w for 4ohm load and has fairly large capacitors. Should be plenty for the Aria LCR taking the largest strain off from your receiver and then you can power the rest of channels from av-receiver. The A3 should be lot cheaper than XPA model (500$ in US).


If I could get a Emotiva XPA3 for 650€ (open box, 12 month warranty) would that be a good deal?
On paper it seems to be an insane value, main drawback is how large it is.
 
If I could get a Emotiva XPA3 for 650€ (open box, 12 month warranty) would that be a good deal?
On paper it seems to be an insane value, main drawback is how large it is.

Sounds very cheap if it`s 3 channel Gen3 (?) but why so poor warranty just do to being open box? They normally have 5 years.
 
Sounds very cheap if it`s 3 channel Gen3 (?) but why so poor warranty just do to being open box? They normally have 5 years.

I believe this is the 3 channel gen 3?
I'm wrong it's not open box, It's a "Trade in" or "trade up" model, basically someone did an upgrade with a dealer to get a discount, and they are selling a used product with 1-year warranty.
Seems like a great deal to me, if I can accomodate it's actual huge size.
 
If you're sticking to a 5.1 setup, have you considered an Anthem MRX series AVR. like the Arcams and NAD's mentioned, they are certainly better at music vs the Denons & Marantz offerings. Here's a quick example of the MRX 540 (7 Channel AVR):

 
If you're sticking to a 5.1 setup, have you considered an Anthem MRX series AVR. like the Arcams and NAD's mentioned, they are certainly better at music vs the Denons & Marantz offerings. Here's a quick example of the MRX 540 (7 Channel AVR):


I have considered it, but I believe I'd still need a power amp with is as the mxr540 is 100W@2 channels driver into 8ohm and doesn't go below 6ohm.
That would mean I'd have to go well and above my budget to make it work.

Sure Arc is going to be plenty better than Audeysey (from what I hear on the internet) but I do have qualms on spending such money on a 7.2 receiver, while I'm not planning to add more speakers, I feel like the Anthem doesn't offer much "Growth" down the line.

That said, I would consider it if I find a good deal on it, but I've rarely seen these go on sale, or be sold used/open box
 
I have considered it, but I believe I'd still need a power amp with is as the mxr540 is 100W@2 channels driver into 8ohm and doesn't go below 6ohm.
That would mean I'd have to go well and above my budget to make it work.

Sure Arc is going to be plenty better than Audeysey (from what I hear on the internet) but I do have qualms on spending such money on a 7.2 receiver, while I'm not planning to add more speakers, I feel like the Anthem doesn't offer much "Growth" down the line.

That said, I would consider it if I find a good deal on it, but I've rarely seen these go on sale, or be sold used/open box
Fair points tbh... I run a 5.2.4 system, used 50/50 Movies/music. So have gone the stereo integrated amp (HT Bypass) route, paired with a Denon 4500 on HT duties.

I built my system up over time and am still tweeking it! This hobby can certainly turn into a money pit!.
 
Fair points tbh... I run a 5.2.4 system, used 50/50 Movies/music. So have gone the stereo integrated amp (HT Bypass) route, paired with a Denon 4500 on HT duties.

I built my system up over time and am still tweeking it! This hobby can certainly turn into a money pit!.
Indeed, though tbh, all of my investments in audio have turned into a profit.

This would be my third audio set and I've sold my previous speakers with profit (buy used + inflation )

I'm sure it's different for amps and avr's (as new technologies push out older models) though I only payed 320€ for my x2400h and I doubt I'll lose much on them either.

I'm actually pretty sure I can sell the new focals at a profit in a couple of years.
Other hobbies don't offer me this at all.
 

I believe this is the 3 channel gen 3?
I'm wrong it's not open box, It's a "Trade in" or "trade up" model, basically someone did an upgrade with a dealer to get a discount, and they are selling a used product with 1-year warranty.
Seems like a great deal to me, if I can accomodate it's actual huge size.

Yes it`s 3ch model. If you are willing to take the risk with used gear then proceed. One would think such expensive unit will last long time (poweramps generally should) and as it´s modular design perhaps it could be repaired for decent price if something were to happen to one of the channels. Well i`m just guessing here. It`s heavy, large and very powerfull. Having 1year warranty for used gear is quite special.

I think that would be great combo with X3700H. You should get the Denon sound enjoyable with music too if you buy the editor app (20€) and do few tweaks. So don´t run it in Pure Direct mode. One of the best stereo amps has effective room correction in it, normal stereo amps don`t and they don`t eq the subs either if you connect one to it. Denon does both and you can effectively choose how far up you correct with it so you don´t alter the sound of your speakers too much (mids & highs). MultEQ XT32 should be nearly as effective in the bass region as Dirac Live judging from comparison graphs posted + subjective listening tests and talking with one of the wisest person in the industry who feels the differences are minimal if setup this way. He planned to do real world comparison in future with different room eq`s. The difference is when you do full range correction then the Dirac/ARC has more potential and they require laptop/pc for setting things up which is not just plug&play as you can tweak them lot more. Full range correction will alter the speakers sound more naturally vs. correcting up to 250-400hz. It may end up sounding better after hours of tweaking, but example one of the wisest people in audio industry Floyd Toole talks strongly for the first option + buying best speakers you can afford with some room treatments. With the Denon you should play little bit limiting the correction up to 250-400hz region so again where the biggest issues (peaks valleys) usually lies in room and put the "midrange compensation" Off = no dip then. Denon Marantz units has the "BBC dip" introduced in the default target curve (Reference) creating dip in 2kHz region. We know our hearing is quite sensitive in this range and it has been proven it´s not needed. If you are using that Reference now then you have it with the X2400H! Change it from "Reference" to "Flat" from menu and that will remove it plus it doesn´t roll off the highs of your B&W speakers! However it will still do full range correction and the XT is poor as it does so much correction higher up vs. low region where it´s needed more due to room modes. XT32 does the opposite so that`s why people want it. And of course higher filter resolution so more effective. You might notice the subwoofer sounding better too.

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The Anthem MRX540 would be intresting otherwise if you are up for tweaking, but the amp side is rather poor for the money just like with Arcam AVR10/11. You would require poweramp still which makes it quite expensive.
 
Yes it`s 3ch model. If you are willing to take the risk with used gear then proceed. One would think such expensive unit will last long time (poweramps generally should) and as it´s modular design perhaps it could be repaired for decent price if something were to happen to one of the channels. Well i`m just guessing here. It`s heavy, large and very powerfull. Having 1year warranty for used gear is quite special.

I think that would be great combo with X3700H. You should get the Denon sound enjoyable with music too if you buy the editor app (20€) and do few tweaks. So don´t run it in Pure Direct mode. One of the best stereo amps has effective room correction in it, normal stereo amps don`t and they don`t eq the subs either if you connect one to it. Denon does both and you can effectively choose how far up you correct with it so you don´t alter the sound of your speakers too much (mids & highs). MultEQ XT32 should be nearly as effective in the bass region as Dirac Live judging from comparison graphs posted + subjective listening tests and talking with one of the wisest person in the industry who feels the differences are minimal if setup this way. He planned to do real world comparison in future with different room eq`s. The difference is when you do full range correction then the Dirac/ARC has more potential and they require laptop/pc for setting things up which is not just plug&play as you can tweak them lot more. Full range correction will alter the speakers sound more naturally vs. correcting up to 250-400hz. It may end up sounding better after hours of tweaking, but example one of the wisest people in audio industry Floyd Toole talks strongly for the first option + buying best speakers you can afford with some room treatments. With the Denon you should play little bit limiting the correction up to 250-400hz region so again where the biggest issues (peaks valleys) usually lies in room and put the "midrange compensation" Off = no dip then. Denon Marantz units has the "BBC dip" introduced in the default target curve (Reference) creating dip in 2kHz region. We know our hearing is quite sensitive in this range and it has been proven it´s not needed. If you are using that Reference now then you have it with the X2400H! Change it from "Reference" to "Flat" from menu and that will remove it plus it doesn´t roll off the highs of your B&W speakers! However it will still do full range correction and the XT is poor as it does so much correction higher up vs. low region where it´s needed more due to room modes. XT32 does the opposite so that`s why people want it. And of course higher filter resolution so more effective. You might notice the subwoofer sounding better too.

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The Anthem MRX540 would be intresting otherwise if you are up for tweaking, but the amp side is rather poor for the money just like with Arcam AVR10/11. You would require poweramp still which makes it quite expensive.
I have the denon app, I'll look into changing the rolloff thanks for that information.

I wonder, would't the pioneer vsx lx505 be a better choice over the anthem mrx540?
120 watts 2channel@ohm, dirac live, 11.2 channels of processing and being cheaper?
Main problem is it not being available in the EU.
If I were to buy it, i'd have to pay a total of 1900€ (after shipping, tax and import duties) but it would still be cheaper than the anthem.
 
I have the denon app, I'll look into changing the rolloff thanks for that information.

I wonder, would't the pioneer vsx lx505 be a better choice over the anthem mrx540?
120 watts 2channel@ohm, dirac live, 11.2 channels of processing and being cheaper?
Main problem is it not being available in the EU.
If I were to buy it, i'd have to pay a total of 1900€ (after shipping, tax and import duties) but it would still be cheaper than the anthem.

It should be coming to Europe just like Onkyo RZ-50 which i would rather take over Pioneer. They are basically sister companies just like Denon/Marantz, but there is few things better in Onkyo like no global crossovers for speakers. At least Onkyo should be coming to EU market, they said summer 2022 but there is constantly some shipping issues with many companies. I wouldn`t buy receiver from another country. If something happens it`s too much hassle and could take long to repair. Notice you want the more accurate Umik-1 (usb) mic with Dirac Live and also computer/laptop so you can really optimize it. It isn`t plug&play like Audussey so there is learning curve to it.

You could ask how much the Emotiva BassX A3 costs in your country. As it would be new with long warranty and plenty of power to run your Focals (LCR).
 
It should be coming to Europe just like Onkyo RZ-50 which i would rather take over Pioneer. They are basically sister companies just like Denon/Marantz, but there is few things better in Onkyo like no global crossovers for speakers. At least Onkyo should be coming to EU market, they said summer 2022 but there is constantly some shipping issues with many companies. I wouldn`t buy receiver from another country. If something happens it`s too much hassle and could take long to repair. Notice you want the more accurate Umik-1 (usb) mic with Dirac Live and also computer/laptop so you can really optimize it. It isn`t plug&play like Audussey so there is learning curve to it.

You could ask how much the Emotiva BassX A3 costs in your country. As it would be new with long warranty and plenty of power to run your Focals (LCR).

Integra is also one of those "sister companies" right?
I have considered the onkyo, but I have no way to import it.
I find the Integra DX5.4 from a visual standpoint ugly, and it would be the last option of those three, on which it would be Onkyo->Pioneer->Integra for me.

I'll check on the price, however I believe I may opt to wait on the amp if I go the Onkyo RZ-50 route and see how it plays out.
I already own a umik-1 so no issues there.

The main problem is waiting till new receivers come out I guess, it may be worth the wait, but they might also postone it till Q1 2023 for example, which is a long way off.

While I don't find Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra to be the most reliable bunch, between Dirac Live, 11.2 channels and decent amplification at a price point half of what other brands are asking (NAD T778 for instance) is huge, though with certain drawbacks.

I think I'll wait till the end of the summer and reevaluate depending if said receivers come to europe (which if they do I'll probably order before they eventually run out of stock)

I've also decided to keep the focals, I do believe the 948's can sound a lot better than they currently do, having paid a little over 2000€ for a brand new pair, I couldn't let that slip by, knowing the retail price is around 1800-1900/per speaker here, and in the US it's more like 3800$/per speaker.
Pretty sure I could sell them with a profit in a couple of years from now.
 
Integra is also one of those "sister companies" right?
I have considered the onkyo, but I have no way to import it.
I find the Integra DX5.4 from a visual standpoint ugly, and it would be the last option of those three, on which it would be Onkyo->Pioneer->Integra for me.

I'll check on the price, however I believe I may opt to wait on the amp if I go the Onkyo RZ-50 route and see how it plays out.
I already own a umik-1 so no issues there.

The main problem is waiting till new receivers come out I guess, it may be worth the wait, but they might also postone it till Q1 2023 for example, which is a long way off.

While I don't find Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra to be the most reliable bunch, between Dirac Live, 11.2 channels and decent amplification at a price point half of what other brands are asking (NAD T778 for instance) is huge, though with certain drawbacks.

I think I'll wait till the end of the summer and reevaluate depending if said receivers come to europe (which if they do I'll probably order before they eventually run out of stock)

I've also decided to keep the focals, I do believe the 948's can sound a lot better than they currently do, having paid a little over 2000€ for a brand new pair, I couldn't let that slip by, knowing the retail price is around 1800-1900/per speaker here, and in the US it's more like 3800$/per speaker.
Pretty sure I could sell them with a profit in a couple of years from now.

Yep wait if you are not sure, Onkyo for sure from those three. But you are still going to want to buy poweramp with any of these units (+Denon) if you constantly listen at or over reference level. Both Nad and Arcam has had lot of bugs/issues and technically there is nothing special with them vs. high asking price. That is not to say they won`t sound very good, i`m sure they will. There is also strong rumours that Denon/Marantz would be getting optional Dirac Live at 2023. It probably comes for certain models then and will cost some. This will be eating sales from Nad/Arcam without doubt if it happens. The Onkyo model is already very popular in US and they supposed to bring more powerfull models with Dirac Live Bass Control support etc. Slow start as there was the Onkyo bankcrupty and getting acquired by Voxx International. But hopefully they come to Europe soon with very competetive prices.
Classic Japanese Audio Brand Onkyo Finally Files For Bankruptcy

The last thing i would be thinking is how much profit i can make from speakers. Buy them if you really like them (sound) for long term or look elsewhere. It sounds like you are not sure (?) if thinking just keeping them for two years to make money. Normally you keep speakers long time especially buying speakers like these as the diminishing returns is going to kick harder going up. I haven ´t heard Arias, but generally they are right there with the best like Kef R etc. judging from measurements and feedback. Keep the impedance switch at default 8ohm on your X2400H and don`t put ECO mode on to make sure you have the best performance available, also make sure you have plenty of ventilation for the unit! I think you will hear when the sound starts to harden up and then backing down. The X2000 serie is not much behind X3700H power output wise as it uses same size capacitors. There is like 3-4 models below it in US.
 
Integra is also one of those "sister companies" right?
Integra was the name that Onkyo used more or less in the American market. When Pioneer came under the control of Onkyo then Elite was added to their American bound AV amps and players. There was some crossover with amps in Europe bearing the Integra name as well from Onkyo. Don't know if the new models, under the ownership of Voxx is going to carry on the tradition.
 
Integra was the name that Onkyo used more or less in the American market. When Pioneer came under the control of Onkyo then Elite was added to their American bound AV amps and players. There was some crossover with amps in Europe bearing the Integra name as well from Onkyo. Don't know if the new models, under the ownership of Voxx is going to carry on the tradition.

I see, a bit confusing, also weird that they get their own design rather than the same models being named something different depending on where they are sold (which I've seen before in espresso machines like Breville/Sage/Solis which is the same brand but means US/UK/EU sold)

Yep wait if you are not sure, Onkyo for sure from those three. But you are still going to want to buy poweramp with any of these units (+Denon) if you constantly listen at or over reference level. Both Nad and Arcam has had lot of bugs/issues and technically there is nothing special with them vs. high asking price. That is not to say they won`t sound very good, i`m sure they will. There is also strong rumours that Denon/Marantz would be getting optional Dirac Live at 2023. It probably comes for certain models then and will cost some. This will be eating sales from Nad/Arcam without doubt if it happens. The Onkyo model is already very popular in US and they supposed to bring more powerfull models with Dirac Live Bass Control support etc. Slow start as there was the Onkyo bankcrupty and getting acquired by Voxx International. But hopefully they come to Europe soon with very competetive prices.
Classic Japanese Audio Brand Onkyo Finally Files For Bankruptcy

The last thing i would be thinking is how much profit i can make from speakers. Buy them if you really like them (sound) for long term or look elsewhere. It sounds like you are not sure (?) if thinking just keeping them for two years to make money. Normally you keep speakers long time especially buying speakers like these as the diminishing returns is going to kick harder going up. I haven ´t heard Arias, but generally they are right there with the best like Kef R etc. judging from measurements and feedback. Keep the impedance switch at default 8ohm on your X2400H and don`t put ECO mode on to make sure you have the best performance available, also make sure you have plenty of ventilation for the unit! I think you will hear when the sound starts to harden up and then backing down. The X2000 serie is not much behind X3700H power output wise as it uses same size capacitors. There is like 3-4 models below it in US.

I actually checked on my AVR once more (since I usually have it set on 0-98 volume rather than db) appearently I made a mistake and I usually listen at -10db.
That said, many AVR's don't really go much lower than 6ohm, I'm sure a power amp down the line will still be a good thing for speakers that can go down to 2,5ohm.

Arcam and NAD have always stood for "Quality brands" not without their own issues, but I feel like they only reason their AVR's have gotten away with the asking price is because of Dirac, the Arcam AV20 being one of the only AV's with Dirac, DLBC and auro 3d capabilities.

If either Onkyo fixes their supply issues, and pushes the rumored "Onkyo TX-RZ70" at a reasonable price, or denon does come out with dirac, I'm guessing you would be right, NAD/Arcam would be sold a whole lot less, or they'd have to adjust their prices accordingly.

You can't expect people to pay double for similar specs because of a brand name....then again seen that before....

While upcoming onkyo models sound good on paper, I'm not willing to wait a couple of years before we see those in the EU.

As it stands, the Focal Aria's 948 have a more detailed sound, can handle complex soundtracks better and have, more soundstage then my previous B&W683's (as they should, they are in an entirely different price category)
I also prefer them visually, as they are imposing speakers that fit right into my home.
However, the difference in quality is subtle, much more subtle then I'd like, I also feel like their highs at times can be harsh or rather "Flat" sounding in comparison.

Even at the enourmous discount, I can't really justify their price.
So right now my reasoning is as follows:

I believe these should sound better than they are, but can't reach said potential with a X2400H as Audyssey XT is pretty dated, and the amplification is lacking both in power and in resistance(ohms) making the sound flatter and at times harsher than it should be.

Thus as it stands I'll keep the speakers, and see how they sound when I do upgrade my amplification (as I still prefer them as is over my previous speakers, but don't consider them a day and night difference).
If I'm still not satisfied with them after said changes I believe I won't actually lose any money on them, that's my line of thinking.
 
I see, a bit confusing, also weird that they get their own design rather than the same models being named something different depending on where they are sold (which I've seen before in espresso machines like Breville/Sage/Solis which is the same brand but means US/UK/EU sold)



I actually checked on my AVR once more (since I usually have it set on 0-98 volume rather than db) appearently I made a mistake and I usually listen at -10db.
That said, many AVR's don't really go much lower than 6ohm, I'm sure a power amp down the line will still be a good thing for speakers that can go down to 2,5ohm.

Arcam and NAD have always stood for "Quality brands" not without their own issues, but I feel like they only reason their AVR's have gotten away with the asking price is because of Dirac, the Arcam AV20 being one of the only AV's with Dirac, DLBC and auro 3d capabilities.

If either Onkyo fixes their supply issues, and pushes the rumored "Onkyo TX-RZ70" at a reasonable price, or denon does come out with dirac, I'm guessing you would be right, NAD/Arcam would be sold a whole lot less, or they'd have to adjust their prices accordingly.

You can't expect people to pay double for similar specs because of a brand name....then again seen that before....

While upcoming onkyo models sound good on paper, I'm not willing to wait a couple of years before we see those in the EU.

As it stands, the Focal Aria's 948 have a more detailed sound, can handle complex soundtracks better and have, more soundstage then my previous B&W683's (as they should, they are in an entirely different price category)
I also prefer them visually, as they are imposing speakers that fit right into my home.
However, the difference in quality is subtle, much more subtle then I'd like, I also feel like their highs at times can be harsh or rather "Flat" sounding in comparison.

Even at the enourmous discount, I can't really justify their price.
So right now my reasoning is as follows:

I believe these should sound better than they are, but can't reach said potential with a X2400H as Audyssey XT is pretty dated, and the amplification is lacking both in power and in resistance(ohms) making the sound flatter and at times harsher than it should be.

Thus as it stands I'll keep the speakers, and see how they sound when I do upgrade my amplification (as I still prefer them as is over my previous speakers, but don't consider them a day and night difference).
If I'm still not satisfied with them after said changes I believe I won't actually lose any money on them, that's my line of thinking.

The 2000/3000 Denons are fairly stable with 4-ohm loads and the lower ~3ohm drop could be at higher region with easy phase angle so not necessarily issue, but ideally you would want much better amp/receiver with these when listening loud. Wish you could test with some beefier amplification. You aren´t running 948 full range so the subwoofer takes good load off from the Denon at least and as i mentioned don´t lower the impedance switch or use eco mode cause those will shrink the power output of the unit. You are probably using 80hz crossover setting for the Aria LCR at least as you have such beast sub hitting hard below that.

Have you played little bit with the toe in angles? Try angling them less (pointing straight) if they sound bright when turned more toward you. Is the room more lively maybe you need to tackle the room too as big % what you hear is the room too (1st reflection points, rug/carpet on floor, curtains over windows/glass, more soft furnishing etc). The Focal 906 looks fairly balanced judging the measurements.

Turn the Audussey completely Off under MultEQ XT menu, it does some odd funky stuff with the high frequencies at least what has been posted as before/after with REW. I wouldn´t be suprised if it sounds better with it turned off while playing movie apart from losing some little low frequency correction. If it`s too bright still then sadly you need to opt for the "Reference" curve which rolls off the highs. If not enough set the "Cinema EQ" to On which should further help with the harshness and same time check that you have Dynamic Compression and Loudness Management set to Off both! All of those can be found under "Surround Parameter" :
 
The 2000/3000 Denons are fairly stable with 4-ohm loads and the lower ~3ohm drop could be at higher region with easy phase angle so not necessarily issue, but ideally you would want much better amp/receiver with these when listening loud. Wish you could test with some beefier amplification. You aren´t running 948 full range so the subwoofer takes good load off from the Denon at least and as i mentioned don´t lower the impedance switch or use eco mode cause those will shrink the power output of the unit. You are probably using 80hz crossover setting for the Aria LCR at least as you have such beast sub hitting hard below that.

Have you played little bit with the toe in angles? Try angling them less (pointing straight) if they sound bright when turned more toward you. Is the room more lively maybe you need to tackle the room too as big % what you hear is the room too (1st reflection points, rug/carpet on floor, curtains over windows/glass, more soft furnishing etc). The Focal 906 looks fairly balanced judging the measurements.

Turn the Audussey completely Off under MultEQ XT menu, it does some odd funky stuff with the high frequencies at least what has been posted as before/after with REW. I wouldn´t be suprised if it sounds better with it turned off while playing movie apart from losing some little low frequency correction. If it`s too bright still then sadly you need to opt for the "Reference" curve which rolls off the highs. If not enough set the "Cinema EQ" to On which should further help with the harshness and same time check that you have Dynamic Compression and Loudness Management set to Off both! All of those can be found under "Surround Parameter" :

I may actually be able to test better amplification, but when is a different question.
I was actually excited for the 948's, as I got the 906's first, and tested them against the B&W683's.

They weren't harsh or flat on the highs, more detailed yes, but never opressive, in fact they are the best bookshelf speakers I've heard to date, the 683's were still better by a slight margin, due to their much larger soundstage in such a huge room.
In fact, if I were to ever have to move to a tiny apartment, the 906's with a compact sub would be enough for me.
Since the tweeters on the 948's are the same I was really surprised by this.

I've double checked the AVR, it is set to 8ohm, the eco mode is turned off.
They are normally set to 80hz crossover, I have been messing around with 60hz as well.

They are currently angled towards the center of the couch.
Tommorow we're moving the sub to a different location as a test(it takes 2 to move that thing) I'll try and adjust the speakers to be fully front facing.

I've noticed I can't actually adjust the audyssey settings with this calibration, as I did the run without the sub (Auddesey XT sucks at subs) so it set the 948 to full band, after changing it on the AVR to small I can no longer access said setting...so I can't turn the curve to flat either.
I'll mess with the settings tommorow and let you know how it turns out, I appreciate the help, I'm correct that midrange compensation should be turned off right?
 
I may actually be able to test better amplification, but when is a different question.
I was actually excited for the 948's, as I got the 906's first, and tested them against the B&W683's.

They weren't harsh or flat on the highs, more detailed yes, but never opressive, in fact they are the best bookshelf speakers I've heard to date, the 683's were still better by a slight margin, due to their much larger soundstage in such a huge room.
In fact, if I were to ever have to move to a tiny apartment, the 906's with a compact sub would be enough for me.
Since the tweeters on the 948's are the same I was really surprised by this.

I've double checked the AVR, it is set to 8ohm, the eco mode is turned off.
They are normally set to 80hz crossover, I have been messing around with 60hz as well.

They are currently angled towards the center of the couch.
Tommorow we're moving the sub to a different location as a test(it takes 2 to move that thing) I'll try and adjust the speakers to be fully front facing.

I've noticed I can't actually adjust the audyssey settings with this calibration, as I did the run without the sub (Auddesey XT sucks at subs) so it set the 948 to full band, after changing it on the AVR to small I can no longer access said setting...so I can't turn the curve to flat either.
I'll mess with the settings tommorow and let you know how it turns out, I appreciate the help, I'm correct that midrange compensation should be turned off right?

Yep the midrange compensation is the BBC dip which is default on in the "Reference" curve.

Keep us posted if you turn the speakers straight and run quick 3mic position run through the app, then try turn the Audussey EQ Off completely and other tweaks. See if it gets any better.
 
Yep the midrange compensation is the BBC dip which is default on in the "Reference" curve.

Keep us posted if you turn the speakers straight and run quick 3mic position run through the app, then try turn the Audussey EQ Off completely and other tweaks. See if it gets any better.

After rerunning the setup I tried the tweaks.
The harsh and hollow sounds were gone after turning Audyssey MultXT off in the AVR settings.
The volume was lower as a result, but turning it up 1 or 2 db was enough.

I tried songs like My Immortal (evanescence), You don't own me (Grace) and Victory (2 steps from hell)
The detail is present but the harshness and hollow sounds are completely gone.

Thanks a lot man, this changes everything.
 
After rerunning the setup I tried the tweaks.
The harsh and hollow sounds were gone after turning Audyssey MultXT off in the AVR settings.
The volume was lower as a result, but turning it up 1 or 2 db was enough.

I tried songs like My Immortal (evanescence), You don't own me (Grace) and Victory (2 steps from hell)
The detail is present but the harshness and hollow sounds are completely gone.

Thanks a lot man, this changes everything.

Ah awesome!!! :clap::clap: XT is nearly useless then as i specifically saw what kind of mess it did with the high frequencies. Of course you can limit the correction with the app using the slider for each speakers so let`s say up to 300hz. So it would only correct the bass frequencies for speakers, but it won´t do that as effective as XT32. You will also lose subwoofer eq with the XT turned Off if it does anything, but your ears will be the judge. :)

Let`s hope some afforadble Dirac units will soon hit Europe. If you are intrested of tweaking then of course this route with RZ-50 would be great.

You can send message asking about the latest information of arrival to EU.
 

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