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Amp

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by special, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. special

    special
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    Can spend £400/500.

    I am confused with the multi channel (5.1 and 7.1) amps. They all have extra thigns I don't need (like decoders). If I am to use it with DVD player, I would already have a decoder in the DVD player.

    So my questions are.

    What amps in 2 channel (for normal hifi use) are recommended at around 400/500 pounds.

    What multi channel amps are recommended at the same price. Amps which simply give out more channels, not which have extra things that cost money, which I don't need.

    Denon AVR-3805B is a bit over priced for what I want (although I guess I don't mind paying that extra if it will be worth it) , but for 2 channel sound. Will it be that good?

    Another confusion I have with it, with a DVD player :

    http://www.web-quality.ch/WQ/DSB_An...=1&ShowSubNav=1&ShowTitle=1&VKundenID=DenonUK

    The DVD says, it can decode dolby, DTS etc. So what is the point in having both? Surely I would be paying extra for one of them, as they both can decode dolby, DTS etc. Does the DVD player need to work with a special type of amp in order to get these functions to work?
     
  2. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Not all DVD players have a decoder but looking at the model you are interested in you are right to say that one of the decoders would become redundant.
    However since you basically can't buy an AV amp/receiver nowadays without decoder you won't have much of a choice - unless want to pay a higher price for not having something; I think to recall that Bryston and Myryad make an AV preamp without decoders but you would also need a multi channel power amp to complete the setup.

    You can't connect a multi channel power amp directly to a DVD player unless the player has a volume control. Most DVD players do not have this - so you either need a fully-fledged AV amp / receiver or, usually at a higher cost, an AV preamp (sometimes also called AV processor) plus multi-channel power amp.

    I don't know about any multi channel amp (AV amp/receiver) that would fit your requirement unless you look at some really old stuff (2nd hand).

    If you consider the 3805 too pricey there are certainly alternatives - but of course this may have an effect on the sound quality. None will miss the decoders though.

    Who is 'both'? DD and DTS are competing (and incompatible) formats, so you need DD decoding for DVDs with DD and DTS decoding for DVDs with DTS.

    The only thing you need is a 6-channel (5.1) input at the amp - which is basically supported by all AV amps/receivers currently on the market and even some old models (before decoders were "implanted" into basically all AV amps/receivers).
     
  3. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi
    Most decoders in dvd players are inferior to the ones in av receivers.dvd players are equiped with analogue 5.1 outputs mostly for sacd or dvd audio decoding which has to be done this way unless you have the denon or pioneer amps and dvd players which have got there own digital connections.
    I would just buy a receiver connect it to the dvd player with the coax or optical cable and enjoy.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  4. special

    special
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    When I say both, I mean they (the amp, and the DVD player) both can decode dolby, dts etc so why not have one which can't. To save money, but I understand now. I think I will end up paying that bit extra (I will have a look in a hifi shop though first, obviously).

    Your post has been helpful, thanks. For now, I have two other questions, will this amp be anywhere near as good of quality as a dedicated, 2 channel amp?

    My worry is spending more for surround sound, but losing quality on music. Although with DVD Audio comming out, I might well have to buy it.


    Are there any well known cheap (trustable) online shops which sell audio equipment, in the UK?
     
  5. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi
    For your budget i would go for nad or a marantz receiver which do sound better with music than the competition.No a receiver won't sound as good as a £500 stereo amp but this is to be expected as an av amp does alot more.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  6. special

    special
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    What would be the 'cons' of going with a NAD or marantz amp, as opposed to the Denon?
     
  7. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi
    Ive owned a nad receiver and it was the best sounding av amp that i heard for £500 (nad t752) in stereo mode and good in av as well,The marantz amps are good also,What you may lose is slightly better processing (in movies)from the denons but as a overall compromise youd be better off with the other two.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  8. special

    special
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    Thanks.

    It is a shame that is so because (as stupid as this may sound) I much prefer the looks of the Denon equipment, and since I will be looking at it a lot, I'd prefer something more attractive.

    I've read some comments about the 3805 (and I think I would be happy to stretch my budget to £700 on an amp) and apparently if you don't have it set up right (which can take quite some time) the stereo will not sound that good. Is it possible you listened to a poorly set up Denon amp, thus not sounding as good as nad and marantz amps?
     
  9. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi special
    It isnt that the denon sounds bad it just doesnt sound to my ears as good in stereo as the other two.As youve got to live with the look of the amp have a listen of the receivers mentioned and if to your ears theirs not much in it go for the denon.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  10. the mechanic

    the mechanic
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    Hi special,

    DD and DTS decoders used to be fitted to DVD players in the "early" years to allow them to be connected to pro-logic amps/receivers so you could get full digital surround sound from suitably encoded DVD discs.
    Nowadays with 99.99% of amps/receivers being equipped with decoders this has made them redundant for decoding DVD movies,but are essential for SACD and DVD AUDIO discs (unless you have as GONZO states a Pioneer or Denon amp and dvd player with their own digital links).
    I find that switching from digital (amp decoding) to analogue (dvd decoding) on my system (denon avr2805 and pioneer dvd 565), the surround steering and relative volume is worse in analogue (i.e with the amp doing the decoding it's better).Also you'll find it a lot easier to connect via digital as it's only one lead rather then six seperate interconnects.A digital connection is less prone to picking up electrical interference (especially optical) than analogue.
    So to summarise :- you'll be hard pressed to find a quality multi channel amp/receiver without any form of digital decoder built in,the amp/receiver will nearly always have a better decoder then the one built into the DVD player.Also a dvd player decoder cannot output any of the extended surround formats such as DTS 6.1 discrete DD-EX 5.1,they are limited to "straight" 5.1.
    As to what AV receiver does stereo music best, the only way to tell is trust your own ears.After all it's only you who can tell,and bear in mind AV amps are at a disadvantage due to all the extra duties it has to carry out (a stereo only amp will out perform an AV amp pound for pound).
    It's all a question of compromise, you can't have the best of both worlds unless you have access to pots of money.

    By the way, the denon AVR2805 I've just upgraded to is available from digital direct for £530.00,and does most of what the AVR3805 does,but obviously there is still a compromise (namley I could'nt afford the 3805).
    Heres a link to the AVR2805 if your'e interested:-
    http://www.digitaldirectuk.com/products_moreinfo3/index.asp?product_id=6120

    Sorry about the long post,hope it helps.

    All the best,
    Graham.
     

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