1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

amp upgrade for FS1?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by deman77, Jan 16, 2004.

  1. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    Please, please help me with my setup. I'm lost, I'm really unhappy with my current audio setup. I have a Sherwood 6105 amp and Mission FS1 speakers. It just all sounds really plain and pathetic.

    So we are upgrading the amp but planning to keep Mission FS1 speakers. The room is about 16x20ft with kind of an 'L-shape' near the front of about 7x7ft. The fronts can only be about 4ft wide (because of the fireplace) or as wide as the room but then 2ft behind the center.

    1) How high up the market can I go in terms of the amp without wasting it on FS1? Which one should I go for (say 1200 budget for now)? Multi-room setup is not a bonus for me, but I guess THX is, if people think it makes any sense with FS1.

    2) I'd like to go for 6.1 or 7.1 set up.
    a) Is it a good idea to use them as satellites only and get something better for the fronts/stereo. If so which ones?
    b) Am I better off adding another one/two FS1 speakers.

    3) how should I position the fronts depending on what fronts you'd recommend?

    4) how high and far away should the rears be, do all three/four of them have to be the same height?

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Interesting question...if you spent up to £1200 on the receiver,you're going to find the FS1's being a bit outclassed,and I think the problem lies not just with the receiver,but with the receiver and speakers.

    If you plan to upgrade the speakers at some stage fairly soon as well,then I'd certainly say it's worth buying a good receiver in the price bracket you mentioned,and models from Denon,Marantz and Pioneer would fit the bill nicely as well as offering reasonable sound quality.

    If not,then I would spend less on the receiver,maybe limiting it to £400-500,and spend the remainder on a decent set of front and centre speakers,and also consider upgrading the sub when possible.

    When considering speakers,try and listen to as many as possible is about the best advice before buying,and also remember the possible trade-in/resale value of your current speakers and amp.

    As for THX....it's a technical specification,and whilst the receivers at £1200 may meet it(and not always) the speakers certainly won't....also,a lot of older,pre-THX spec gear easily surpasses the spec....at that sort of price range,I really wouldn't be worried about it,if at all.
     
  3. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks Alex.

    Can you recommend anything specific? I saw flattering reviews for Marantz 5400 and denon 3803 seems to be a good one (especially considering it should drop now as new one's coming out). Are those the amps you think I should consider? What else would you recommend?

    you seem to suggest it's a good idea to go with the fronts that are completely different. What would you recommend?
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    Neither your amp nor speakers are anything higher than entry level and upgrading one will not be of much benefit on it's own.

    For an immediate improvement in quality have a look at the JM Labs Sib & Cub satellite & Sub package which is £599 here coupled with something like the Denon 2803 at £530 here

    These are just two examples of the sort of system that one could build within a budget of £1,200
     
  5. jelly

    jelly
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,294
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    nottingham
    Ratings:
    +9
    i had a sherwood rd6103 amp and was never really pleased with it but since upgrading to an pio 912 the speakers have never been happier my advice is to get a £4-5 hundred pound amp if poss and see if the speakers sound better my speakers sounded s**tloads better
     
  6. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Ian is pointing you on the right direction, if you want to spend £1200, then a all in one pack from creative

    For non hassle but very good results, Denon 2803 with either JM labs sib & cub or even better kef eggs 2005.2 for £1140 including all cables are superb deals. 2 extra eggs cost only £158. All in all £1300 and you are ready to play loud!!!. Eggs are very musical for being sat style and of course it excels in films, and 2803 very good in both.

    Wasabi
     
  7. EasyTiger

    EasyTiger
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    63
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    9
    Location:
    Bournemouth
    Ratings:
    +0
    If you want an amp to make up for an odd shape room and an odd placement of speakers, the pioneer MCACC system is very good at automatically setting the delays and levels (also adjusts the acoustics to make up for any odd speaker/room effects). Whilst this can all be done manually on most av amps, the automatic feature is quick and easy.

    I know the Pioneer system is very good as I have the 2011 and this has very effectively reduced the boom from my Kef Q5's (due to placement restrictions and their natural tendency) however I think quite a few other manufacturers now have similar capabilities.

    As far as how much you should spend, it all depends as to how long term you are looking and how much upgrading you are expecting. Last year I bought the pioneer 2011 amp with the FS1's (to go with my old Kef hi-fi speakers to do a 7.1 setup), knowing that I was going to be upgrading the front and centre speakers this year.

    Also do you want the system for movies or music or both? If you want good (stereo) music then I would not use the flats at the front as you lose a portion of the midband between how low they go (265Hz) and how high the sub goes (195 Hz).
     
  8. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks very much guys.

    from your answers I gather that if I am to have any noticable improvement I am to upgrade both the speakers and the amp. In terms of the amp I'd probably go for one of the pioneers as I am very bad in setting things up by ear and their >500 quid amps seems to have autosetup.

    I'd probably still have to readup on the speakers, as I have a restriction: my plasma is only about 4in above the fireplace mount which in turn is about 4-5in deep. So the center speaker either has to fit in there or I'd have to put it above the plasma which is gonna be 6ft5in high and ugly or on the floor (is that an option?)
     
  9. Ian J

    Ian J
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    Neither is ideal. Is the fire in use or could you place a speaker stand in front of the fireplace
     
  10. EasyTiger

    EasyTiger
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    63
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    9
    Location:
    Bournemouth
    Ratings:
    +0
    As for the centre speaker, you're best if you can get one to fit under the plasma. The Kef KHT5005 are only 3.5 inches wide/tall and these are a nice step up from the Mission FS1's. I think you can pick up a 5.1 setup for £1100.
     
  11. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ian, fire is in use, I guess I could make some kind of extended shelf but it's my last resort as that would just make the whole thing rather ugly.

    What do you think about the KHT5005 that EasyTiger recommends?
     
  12. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    There is a very good deal from Av sales at the moment a little over your £1200 but HK AVR507 7.1 amp +DVD506 PS DVD player +7 Oreus satellites and a sub £1340 delivered IIRC Stonking deal, Question is if Oreus wall bracket will fit, It'll be tight but well worth looking into, see posts by serpico and scollops on this and the Denon Kef 2005.2 setups.
     
  13. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks hornydragon.
    My budget is not restricted to 1200, that was just a reference point. I'd like to be close this budget but I want my system to get closer to sounding like my dad's B&O Beolab6000 rather then pc speakers which is what my FS1 sound like

    I'll do some research about those bits and will probably come back with more questions. An instant reaction is whether Oreus will be an improvement on FS1 as it seems to be not far away in terms of price.

    People also seem to be quite keen on MA Radius range when compared to KHT5005. Seeing as their center is only 9.5cm deep I'll keep it as an option which will require some extra work. Can you give some opinions on these?
     
  14. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    well Oreus are step up from 2005.2 Kef's I am probably the only memeber that has heard Beolab 6000's and Oreus! For small satellites Oreus are superb if set up properly and good anyway! There is no match for Blab 6000 sound and style but what IMHO does come closest is Canton CD2.22 very nice speakers but £1000+ alone then require decent amping. And possibly replace Canton Sub with MJ Ref100 or similar.
    Why not buy your self a pair Lab 6000's????
     
  15. Ian J

    Ian J
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    I haven't heard them so can't comment. It is almost time for the annual pilgrimage to Bristol though (mid Feb) where all the good and great can be heard at the Marriott Hotel and I will probably have a listen then.

    If you can make it, it would be a good time for you to audition a whole range of potential speakers too.
     
  16. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    i played with beolab a bit in my dad's flat and it's so much quality and style, and sounds so good I didn't even bother checking the price: I know it'll be out of my range. just checked: a couple of speakers for me at this budget.

    So, hornydragon, you reckon Oreus will be almost as good as Kef5005, seeing as they are slightly better than 2005.2. Do you know if Liam stocks 5005 for demos as I'd like to go and have a listen. Alternatively, where in London area can I listen to these?
     
  17. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    No idea mate give liam a call see what he can do for you.
     
  18. EasyTiger

    EasyTiger
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    63
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    9
    Location:
    Bournemouth
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sevenoaks Sound and Vision stock the Kefs. I know the Swiss Cottage branch have the 5005's in stock.
     
  19. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    deman77,

    If you do go to Sevenoaks Sond and Vision and decides to buy the 5005 after demo, make sure they can match this - http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/KHT5005.htm who gives you the QED silver ann cables.

    Wasabi
     
  20. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    that's a good point, thanks Wasabi, I forgot that one needs to get extra cables for good speakers as well
     
  21. nemo

    nemo
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    405
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +25
    deman77,

    Had a demo of both the KEF 5005 and MA Radius packages a couple of weekends ago and personally well I loved the look of the KEF’s I was very disappointed with how they sounded. While the KEF’s had a very in your face sound the Radius package was a very clean spacious sound. Ordered the Radius package there and then.
     
  22. deman77

    deman77
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks nemo
    What was driving the speakers during your demo and what were the cables? Did you get the same feel in both stereo and surround?

    Did you hear the Infinity Oreus? I know they are downmarket from 5005 but people say they are better than the 2005.2 so I'd be interested to hear what they are like compared to 5005? I think Radius although just about acceptable in terms of money are can be very difficult to fit under my TV.
     
  23. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    701
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +16
    Well personally I would get rid of the FS1's, I've heard them and I was not impressed...I demoed them against the Kef KHT 1005's, the little brother of the 2005 and boy did the 1005 sound so much better.

    But hey, I don't know too much about this whole thing (getting my first set up on Saturday), so listen to these guys ^^^^... :smashin:
     
  24. nemo

    nemo
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    405
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +25
    It was a pio AX5i / 868 (which is what I own) connected by coax not iLink that was used for the demo, not sure what speaker cable was used. The sound in stereo was just as clean sounding and more of a hifi sound than what I got with the Kef 2005 Eggs I was replacing. Not heard the Infinity Oreus package. The hight of the 180's when placed horizontally is 12cm and not the 9.5cm that was mentioned in a previous post.
     

Share This Page

Loading...