Amazon Banning Customers For Returns

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by retrouk, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. retrouk

    retrouk
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  2. markgodley

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    This was on watchdog last year i think. I'm sure it's fairly rare, but is a bit concerning, especially as some of these customers were prime users (who can no longer use the prime services and no refund).

    37 returns out of 343 is a 10-11% return rate... is that too high... i'm not sure.
     
  3. Rorifett

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    Christ I wouldn't like to think what my return rate is, faulty goods and stuff not fit for purpose from their ever-increasing foreign suppliers always goes back if it's crap. Wonder if there's something else happening in the background of those folks accounts too though mind you, they might be total gobsh*tes.
     
  4. retrouk

    retrouk
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    Hi everyone, thanks for your replies. Personally I think that this is wrong as under DSR we all have the right to return online purchases within 14 days whatever the reason might be. I think though having seem this on Watchdog also, these rules don't apply to Amazon and it thinks that it can do what it wants. Myself personally will not be shopping at Amazon anymore as I want to be able to exercise my right to return items that I'm not happy with or are faulty.
     
  5. Rorifett

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    It's not banning the return of items though, just not selling to certain people. Two different things.
     
  6. IronGiant

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    There was a brief discussion on here when the Watchdog episode aired last year. I think the conclusion was that they did it to people who were returning enough stuff that they were no longer cost effective to have as a customer.
     
  7. Graham27

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    Yeah, that's the thing. A retailer is free to choose who it sells to. Unfortunately, they're not always free to explain why they've made a certain decision.

    There have been so many times I've had issues which have prompted a decision which can look a bit iffy to third parties, but defending yourself can make you look even iffier. Social Media, oof.

    I buy most things from Amazon due to where I live, and they've been great with me. They ship me some items where the carriage costs more than the item with no quibbles, presumably due to my other business.

    It does go both ways.
     
  8. Eric

    Eric
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    I have tried to return a couple of items in the past, due to my error. Low cost items and both times it has said, have it, it's on us! Got a refund too. I can't complain really. Always found them to be great. Although in the many years I have returned things, I can count on one hand. The last thing was my ice cream maker from Andrew James, replacement and refund!
     
  9. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    One of the people in that article had returned 30 out of 112 purchases :rolleyes: The DSR (Now the Consumer Contracts Regs) were intended to cover you if you genuinely change your mind, not for you to treat the seller as a try before you buy service :)
     
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  10. hippy240980

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    It's fair enough if amazon don't want to do business with certain people any more. If that person has paid for a service upfront (prime) then they should get a refund for it as amazon are in breach of the contract. After a quick search i found this

    It looks like a "fair use" clause that they make up themselves on the fly. I didn't see anything about a certain return number or pecentage that can be classed as miss use.

    To me i think amazon should just tally up the remaining full months membership left and pay the people and carry on dealing with others.
     
  11. nheather

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    Happy with that concept. But what is totally unacceptable to me is the "and we're keeping your £170 gift card allowance".

    It's one thing to say that they don't want to do business anymore but it is another to effectively steal hundreds of pounds of credit.

    I would hope to think that if that went to court, Amazon would be ripped another arsehole.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  12. Rorifett

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    Is the gift card allowance actually from gift cards though or is it the 'free' credit you get for buying things and using slow mailing services?
     
  13. nheather

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    I imagine for that sort of amount it will be from gift vouchers. I am a big Amazon customer and I maintain a giftcard balance that I receive as gifts (Christmas and Birthday) and buy from members here. I currently have over £300 on credit so if they did this to me I would see it as stealing hundreds of pounds from me - and I would certainly be taking them to small claims court.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
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  14. Graham27

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    True, I don't agree with that either if it's just normal giftcards, but I don't know on what basis they were obtained, or what the reason is for the ban.

    I know it's OK to ban someone from a store, meaning they technically can't come in to spend their vouchers. In normal circumstances that person could sell on their vouchers, which isn't the case here.

    I just think there may be more to it than we're aware of. Generally any time I've complained they've bent over backwards to keep me happy and I don't spend that much.
     
  15. Solomon Grundy

    Solomon Grundy
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    Some people can be a pain in the arse so I get Amazon's point.

    Selling car parts there are loads of people who buy something without diagnosing the actual problem and then return the item because it didn't fix anything or they return their broken unit and keep our good one. Ebay rules say that we have to bear the cost of postage too. Once the refund has been sorted that buyer is permanently blocked.
     
  16. LemonGrab

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    There are so many blaggers on amazon though, it is soooo simple to order an item, have it delivered and put in a random item in the box and send it back and keep the original.....happens all the time.
     
  17. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    Same here
     
  18. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    Speaking as an Amazon seller it is expensive when people DSR our products because they are using amazon no-commitment purchase. Doesn't take many of these returns to wipe out profits. If we had a serial 'customer' who did this we would knock them on the head - if enough did it we would go bust :)
     
  19. Rorifett

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  20. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    They are resalable but there are repackaging costs, and double-postage costs where amazon send them back to us for repackaging (labour) then we send them back to amazon (more labour), plus they tend to get lost in the amazon system for a while before coming back to us so all in all those lookyloo customers can most definitely do one <shakes fist>.
     
  21. hippy240980

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    Just remember this is Amazons choice to offer free returns.
    If they wanted, they could make it clear in their T&C's that returns are to be paid by the buyer.
     
  22. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    Returns aren't free - or aren't always - the buyer (sometimes?) has to pay to return under DSR - but not if it's faulty or not as advertised.

    I don't bother returning cheap things under DSR as the return postage is virtually the same as the product cost.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  23. IronGiant

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    On my last return to a Market Place seller, where a garment was clearly smaller than stated, (Other sellers were selling the same thing but quoting the right size) they didn't refund either lot of postage. I complained and both sets were duly refunded. I hope I'm not on a black list now :( :)
     
  24. hippy240980

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    Oh. My mistake. They offer free returns on certain items like shoes but buyer pays when its others.

    Still gives amazon less to complain about when people pay the postage back for the items.


    You have a check against your name now IG a few more and your OUT!
     
  25. internetuser

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    As normal it can be a few spoils it for all.

    Depending on Amazon logistics I have known people claim items not turn up then sell the replaced item or return it.

    Having sold loads on eBay the tricks and scams some people play are unbelievable. Lucky I photo all serial numbers etc and send tracked delivery.

    Yet people still try things on.
     
  26. Apsilon

    Apsilon
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    Ignoring the legality of whether they can or can't do this, I can kind of sympathise with Amazon over this as there are a lot of freeloaders out there. If an item is genuinely faulty or not fit for purpose then a return for refund should not be cause for contention as the evidence will be there to see upon its return.

    In many cases though and as IG said, some may use Amazons service as a 'try before you buy' service, or simply change their mind after purchase. And because Amazon has a pretty good returns process which in most cases includes free return delivery (which must cost a pretty penny in itself), this opens the door to those who want to abuse the system at no cost to themselves. Let's be honest, Amazon don't have to offer free P+P for purchasing or returns and I'd imagine if customers had to pay for P+P or return P+P in particular, there be a damn sight less of these instances as people would be lot more careful before parting with their money..

    After reading that article though, I suspect that there may be more to this than meets the eye with respect to the individuals involved and I would not be at all surprised if what @internetuser has said above isn't in some way part of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  27. markgodley

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    What's the return policy in local stores for 'try before you buy' scenarios.

    For example, if you bought a TV, got it home, picture was crap.. what are your rights.

    I know stores such as richersounds, john lewis, tesco etc would likely exchange it for you no quibble... but what about other stores?
    After all you've spent your hard earned money on a product and expect it to be a certain standard.
     
  28. Apsilon

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    Therein lies the problem. If you buy a TV from a store you can see the demo set and make an informed choice (which I imagine most would or they'd at least see the set before going online for it). If you then get it home and it's pants, then there really shouldn't be an issue in returning it because the store or online retailer can test it themselves for verification.

    I think Amazon's issue is slightly different. They are targeting high return users who are 'perceived' to be abusing the system with very possibly, flaky reasons for doing so.

    Since I've been using Amazon (almost since the start) I reckon I've returned about 2 items. I'm either extremely lucky, too honest, can't be arsed with the return process or I just take it on the chin that I've bought some tat that may or may not be the standard I expected but crucially - it does the job.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  29. nheather

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    Three issues for me.

    1 - Amazon is a distance seller which means that they have to abide by the Distance Selling Regulations. They can't simply puck and choose when they adhere to the law.

    2 - Of course they can choose to refuse to serve a customer. But you would think that they would give some warning that this is likely to happen and also document it in there T&Cs. If you read the article the independent investigator was unable to find any such published policy and when they asked directly, Amazon refused to comment.

    3 - The retension of unused gift balance and prime account is very dodgy if not illegal. The prime membership is an annual contract which Amazon have breached because they say that the customer has broken an unpublished policy, one which Amazon refuse to provide. In fact the customer has been following the DSR and I can understand why Amazon think he is taking the piss but he is not in the wrong. He has DSR on his side whilst Amazon are referring to an unpublished policy and one that they refuse to provide details of.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  30. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    1 - They aren't picking and choosing in this case - just refusing to serve. I can't say I blame them, but if they are keeping gift card money that is very dodgy. I wonder if they are giving the users a 'time out' and will reinstate the balances in the future.
     

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