1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Am I the only one not totally happy with my Panny plasma?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by pwhite8314, Apr 24, 2003.

  1. pwhite8314

    pwhite8314
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've now had my Panny screen for a couple of months, and whilst it's good, I really don't think it's anywhere near as good as my old CRT (a Phillips pixel+). The thing that really bothers me is that nobody else seems to have any problems with the Panny, so is mine faulty, or am I just being over critical of plasma technology, and should I just accept that comparing CRT vs. Plasma on picture quality alone is not a fair comparison??

    As an example of my 'issues' with it:

    1. The flickering. I definitely get it, generally in top third of the screen, particularly where it's a fairly static image, highly lit at the top. The corridor shots in something like ER are a good place to spot this.

    2. I don't know how to describe it, but the dark colours (ie. blacks, dark blues etc) always look very pixelated, or scaled. Again, as a recent example, on the middle Fear Factor challenge, they usually end up at a spooky old warehouse. The foreground is well lit, and therefore looks fine, but the gloomy/spooky background kind of give an effect similar to the solarising effect found on some camcorders (though obviously not as extreme!). Another way of putting it is viewing a picture on a PC with 32,000 colours vs. one with 16m. An obvious example, and perhaps overstating the point, but it's the only way I can think to explain it.

    You'll see from my sig that I'm using the Panny tuner. I've also run the screen without it, and I still see the same picture defects. The same is true of the comp connections - the picture quality is the same either direct or via the tuner. I’ve also tried varying the qualities of connectors (and settled on some mid-range ones) but TBH I don’t see how the connectors can really effect the points above, particularly number 2.

    The one thing that annoys me about the tuner is that it dumbs down the picture settings, so I can’t use the ‘ideal settings’, as with the tuner all I get is a moving bar, and many of the options are lost altogether. However, for wife-acceptance reasons the tuner must remain, and although I know some people are sceptical of it, I really do not agree that is has much of a negative impact on the picture.

    You’ll also see that I’ve got TiVo and Sky, both of which will degrade the picture, but this was also the case on my CRT, so I don’t think these are the cause of the problem.

    So, sorry about the long note! Do I just need to readjust my expectations of my plasma screen? I’m not saying it’s bad by any means, but as I said above, on pure PQ, it’s not up to my old CRT.
     
  2. JamesTapp

    JamesTapp
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi,

    I have a Panny v4. I don't see any of the flickering you describe in point 1. I too use Tivo, along with NTL Digital. But I connect RGB to Component with my JS Box....

    Regarding point 2, the only time I see the dark areas of the screen "pixellated" as you describe is when I turn up the brightness too high - usually when I am playing SOCOM Online on my PS2 and want to see the terrorists lurking in the shadows!!!:devil:

    One point to note, I have had my plasma calibrated by Gordon F. A same part of that process is the correct balance for contrast and brightness. Gordon then sets these as defaults in the service menu. The calibration was a process well worth it in my opinion.

    Finally, the artifacts from Digital TV have always been there, even on your CRT, but the screen is significantly larger and can draw your attention to the artifacts. Some people claim that a deinterlacer such as the IScan Pro/Ultra can reduce the visibility of these artifacts, but I have yet to go that far.

    Hope this helps,

    James
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,982
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,786
    Flicker: The 50Hz flicker isnot visible in models prior to 5 series. I am starting to think this may be because the 3/4 series were running internally at higher refresh rate all the time in much the same way as the Pioneers do.

    I have eliminated flicker on 5 series units by using a scaler set to 60Hz refresh. (has added benefit of superior de-interlacing and video decoding too)

    Blocking in dark scenes is possibly due to MPEG encoding at source, be it DVD or broadcast. This is undoubtedly more obvious on the Plasma than the CRT TV due to size of screen and proximity to it. Some may also be caused by the video processing of the display itself.

    All displays have issues of some sort it just depends on which you feel most comfortable with.

    Hope this is of use,

    Gordon
     
  4. GarryF

    GarryF
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,358
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Scotland
    Ratings:
    +299
    I've got pany 42PWD5, I would say if you are moving from a TV to any type of larger display device you may well be disappointed with the pic quality from a lot of your sources

    I went for a cheap ProV scaler which is by no means great but I think is fine for sky etc. I don't notice any flicker on mine.

    HTPC direct into a plasma for me is perfect for DVD, I noticed this weekend that I've lately been watching films and not noticing a flaw or glitch all the way through them. I would say that factory settings on the plasma are way too bright, have you done any calibration on this ? I think I got the kind of effects you describe before I spent some time setting it up

    Now if only I could get this HTPC to be reliable...
     
  5. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    You won't notice problems with sources so much on CRT; not only because of smaller screen size, but also because of "blurring" effects of analogue display.

    Have you tried any decent sources? For example a good quality progressive-scan DVD player? Do you have a local hi-fi dealer who would loan you say an Arcam DV88+ to demo at home?

    Perhaps you could try Sky+Tivo through scaler? Although if you are using the Tuner/Receiver your options are going to be limited here; and you'll have to unplug it to use VGA socket. If you are running PAL content through scaler, set it's refresh rate to 75Hz to get a flicker free picture.

    StooMonster
     
  6. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2000
    Messages:
    6,015
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Born in Bristol but now in Newport, (for my sins)
    Ratings:
    +648
    I am surprised with your comments.. I had several 36" TVs before my Plasma:

    Panasonic PF10
    Sony KV36FS70 (I had more than 6 of these)
    Philips 9607

    All went back due to a number of issues, but mainly geometry (specifically linerarity) and 'staining'.

    IMHO the Panasonic (well Toshiba) plasma is better than ANY of them.. It has perfect geometry and there is no visible staining at all. Whilst the plasma isn't perfect, its still much better than any CRT I have ever owned or seen.

    But then again, thats just my opinion.
     
  7. Luc

    Luc
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    417
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +2
    Out of interest, what scaler did you use? As part of my ongoing upgrade-itis, i'm interested in all this kinda stuff at the minute.
     
  8. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    Gordon selling one of his Key Digital scalers again. :clown:

    StooMonster
     
  9. harrisuk

    harrisuk
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Messages:
    5,322
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Ratings:
    +58
    On the Plasma CRT debate in general I have to agree with the people who have posted already. A 42" Plasma is 30% or more bigger than 32" CRT. Therefore imperfections are far more noticeable. Not only this if you look very closely at CRT via Satellite or cable which is the most common source of complaint the defects are there. Just no where near as noticeable on the smaller screen interlaced behind half a centimetre of glass.

    I don’t know anyone who has seen a properly set-up Plasma screen playing quality source and said it is not much better than CRT. Especially not versus a Panny. But that’s the point crap in crap out. Sky etc quality is notoriously bad. Plasma screens just show it up for what it is. Through a decent DVD player or a Video Games Console the results are breathtaking.

    Reading regular posts on this forum it has also become very clear that many people buying these things are not setting them up as well as they could. Many are using Tuner boxes which as well as adding unnecessary extra cost do not produce as good quality as the Component / VGA / RGB scart route such as the JS converters.

    I have even seen people complain about the quality using cheapo free AV cables instead of proper quality component cables! Why spend £3000 on a screen and scrimp on the connects? It does not make sense and I see it all the time.

    I don’t have the Panny. But could have bought one. I found it hard to justify the extra £800 at the time having looked at it carefully next to the screen I bought which is classed as a "Budget model". But the Panny produces an excellent quality picture when it is properly set-up certainly one of the best out there.

    I must admit I was a little put off as someone I knew has a Panny and I had a heads up on a number of issues that are now coming to the surface (Lip synch, flicker, noise etc). These points have been mentioned plenty of times before but most people seem to be happy with the work around all be it expensive ones, time delay units, scalers etc if these problems occur. From what I can tell it very much depends on the model you have. I have seen quite a few posts that suggest the 4 was a better screen than the 5 due to cost savings they made on the newer model? But I am no expert.

    It is certainly one of the best Panels available in terms of picture quality. But having seen the new Fujitsu screen last weekend at Selfridges I think it blows the Panny and every other Plasma screen I have seen out of the water to be perfectly honest.

    Other factors which give Plasma a massive edge over CRT are aesthetics and space saving.

    My panel looks superb over the fireplace and has given me back a big corner of the room, which has now got a nice little AV cabinet, which hides all the equipment instead of an ugly big CRT wasting space and spoiling the appearance of the room.

    No way I would go back to CRT :mad:
     
  10. pwhite8314

    pwhite8314
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sorry for my prolonged silence, I got dragged into some l-o-n-g meetings today.:boring:

    As I said at the outset, the fact that I seem more or less on my own with my point of view does indicate either a set-up problem, a hardware problem, or an eyeball problem. If the latter, then it also applies to my wife, so I guess that's out!

    I don't know how to find the optimum set up via the tuner. Can I still use the calibration DVDs for this, bearing in mind the range of adjustments is far more limited than if I was just using the scart input board?

    I am stuck with the tuner, for all sorts of marriage-threatening reasons, so my options are limited there, particulalrly in terms of using a scaler. THe tuner gets a lot of abuse on this forum, but as I said, I really don't think it has a huge impact on the PQ. That said, it's a crap tuner in terms of functionality, and Panasonic should be shot for releasing it. The fact that there's a design fault with the 14:9 view via the tuner (see my other posts for Panasonics reply to this) just emphasises the fact that priority 1 was to make it look nice, functionality was somewhere further down the list.

    THe flicker doesn't really bother me - I'm the only one that notices it, and it's only on a few programmes.

    BTW, my previous TV was 36", and whilst I understand that area-wise that's still a lot smaller than the plasma, and the nature of CRT does blend the digital artifacts to a point where they are less visible, the picture IMHO, was still better, albeit warped at the edges.

    Clearly I need to fiddle some more with the settings, but I've already done this to death so many times, and as soon as I get it right for 1 programme, I switch over and see all sorts of problems on a different channel. Finding the 'optimum' setting really is almost impossible given the varied quality of the sources. Ho hum.:confused:
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,982
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,786
    Stoo: It wasn't a Key Dig scaler. It was a Lumagen but any scaler that can have different refresh from incoming signal should be able tohave a go. ie HTPC, Rock etc.

    Gordon
     
  12. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    Sorry Gordon, just having a laugh. :clown: Hope you are not offended, as no offence meant.

    StooMonster

    PS: My plasma is still hoping to see you soon.
     
  13. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    Pete

    As I former Tuner/Receiver owner with Panny5 50" screen; I have a bit of experience with trying to get best picture with Sky etc.

    Best picture was via expensive progressive-scan DVD player in component input AV4C; which although some people say is much worse than RCA or BNC Terminal Board's component input, I'd say there isn't much difference. In fact I spoke to Panasonic technical support about it, and at length about other features of the Tuner/Receiver and they said that the component input is a "pass through" and goes straight through to screen's internals with no processing or signal changing; this also looked like case when I examined the hardware's internals.

    However, back to point of my message ...

    :lesson: To get best picture with Sky digital set "Contrast" to "Low" in Sky Services menu, assuming that you are using RGB into AV1.

    Setting to "high" really causes 'solarisation' issues like you describe.

    Hope that this helps.

    StooMonster
     
  14. RAMiAM

    RAMiAM
    Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    481
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK, Kent (nr Ashford)
    Ratings:
    +9
    I'd really like to know how you could tell it was a straight pass through from examining the hardware internals :D

    RAMiAM IamRAM
     
  15. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    RAMiAM :clown:

    :lesson: Have you ever looked at a PC motherboard? You know those copper coloured lines things running all over them? Those lines are called circuits.

    Okay, it wasn't the most scientific method ...
    Using high tech tools called digit and eye, one could follow these circuits from one input connector to another output connector; and there were no chips, resisters, capacitors, etc in the path of the circuit. Hence "looked like" in my note. :devil:

    Is that okay? Do you think I can assume that Panasonic Technical were telling the truth? :p

    StooMonster
     
  16. RAMiAM

    RAMiAM
    Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    481
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK, Kent (nr Ashford)
    Ratings:
    +9
    LOL :D hmmm, copper.
     
  17. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    hehehehe

    All this joking and laughing has made me forget another suggestion to pwhite8314 ... err ...

    In the meantime ... did setting Sky to low contrast help?

    StooMonster
     
  18. pwhite8314

    pwhite8314
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Ratings:
    +0
    StooMonster

    Kind off, but it's still a bit of a trade-off. The darker scenes on all the sources now seem quite dark, to the point where a fair amount of the detail is lost. Can you cast your mind back to when you had a tuner, and to what your picture settings were? Annoyingly, the tuner doesn't have numbers for each setting, so below is a very high-tech drawing of them...

    Contrast (--!----------)

    Brightness (----!--------)

    Colour (---!---------)

    Sharpness (----!--------)

    Colour Bal Normal

    P-NR On

    Mode Dynamic

    I spent about an hour faffing with the contrast/brightness balance last night, and the above seems to mast the worse of the 'solarisation', but at the expense of loosing some detail, i.e. if someone's got a black jacket on, you can no longer see the ruffles (not down the front, it's not a disco jacket, just the creases and stuff!).

    I'm not totally happy with the Sky digibox either - I've just swapped a Sony in for my old Amstrad, but even on the low contrast setting, it's still a bit 'bold'. When I toggle the PAL/RGB setting on the digibox, should I see an immediate change? I don't, nothing changes with the picture, even when I save my way out of the menu.
     
  19. pwhite8314

    pwhite8314
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Ratings:
    +0
    StooMonster - you still out there...?
     
  20. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    pwhite8314, I was trying to remember.

    Sky digibox set to "Low" contrast"

    Colour Bal: Normal
    P-NR: Off (this only affects RF channels)
    Mode: Dynamic
    Brightness, Colour and Sharpness at their defaults
    Contrast about 75%.

    Key thing was Sky digibox set to low contrast; but even then, and with my current setup you do very occationally get a bit of colour banding.

    Watching movies I would have Mode set to Cinema.

    That's too dark. Do you have any DVD that have THX Optimiser on them? e.g. "Lilo and Stitch", "Star Wars". Run through the display settings on that to get as good a calibration as possible with Tuner/Receiver.

    Yes you should, as PAL is composite and not RGB, RGB should be better, clearer and sharper picture. Good way to check is use BBCi, i.e. press text button on BBC ONE. If in composite, red text on blue background will be have wavy edges, whereas in RGB it should be pin sharp.

    Three things to check with your scarts:

    1. From Sky digibox, only the scart marked "television" is RGB capable, the other (marked "video" or "vcr") is composite out only.

    2. Make sure Sky scart "television" is plugged into Panny Tuner's AV1 socket.

    3. Check that your scart cable is a "fully wired" one, otherwise it may not be RGB capable. This could well be the case if you use a "free" one that came with any hardware.

    Hope this helps

    StooMonster
     
  21. pwhite8314

    pwhite8314
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's set at low. The picture from the Sony Sky box is a lot higher in contrast than my old Ammy box for some reason.

    I can see the strobing around the red you are talking about from the red dot on most Sky chanels.

    I've just taken a look - current config is that the Digibox is the first stage - i.e. dish and RF go into that box first. Sky TV scart goes to TiVo Aux, then TiVo AV1 goes to the tuner. So I think it's OK, but as I say, I don't see any difference at all. TiVo is also set to RGB, and I do see a difference when I change that. I'll connect Sky directly to the tuner tomorrow and see if that works.

    Hey! - I might not want to spend £50 on a power cable, but my scarts are good quality and fully wired :p

    I've got a star wars DVD somewhere, so I'll try that out. I've also got something clearly wrong with the Sky RGB output, as it isn't. I suspect that during the swap of the Ammy box for the Sony I've screwed something up, as I can't get my head around the idea that Amstrad have produced something better than Sony!

    Thanks, I'll report back soon....
     
  22. pwhite8314

    pwhite8314
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well, all the connections are right. TV scart goes to TiVo Aux, and TiVo TV goes to the tuner. TiVo is set to RGB (plus it says RGB on the screen when I flick over to AV1 on the plasma). I tried connecting the Sky box directly to the tuner, but it didn't make a whole lot of difference - none in fact. The reds still strobed at the edges.

    I've been thorugh my DVDs, but I've not got the THX optimiser - I've got Phantom Menace, but that's not got it.:(

    Having said all that, I've been tweaking some more, and the picture does look better, though it's still a bit of a compromise.

    Out of interest, on the usual warning screens for DVDs (with a red 'Warning' at the top and a bunch of white text underneath, on a black background), the red text is not pin-shart. I'ts OK, and it doesn't strobe, but the edges are 'brighter' than the main part of the letter, if that makes sense.

    One thing to note is that I've got the tuner cable running close to the AC cable. Both have ferrites on them, but could that be causing this type of problem (I don't have any other kind of interference)? I know the stock asnwer is probably yes, and I should separate the cables, but I read somewhere that the AC current more or less cancels itself out, so there shouldn't be much in the way of interference.

    Either way, RS are due to replce the screen sometime within the next couple of weeks (long story), so maybe that will help too.
     
  23. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    That's really odd, RGB shouldn't stobe around the edges; and your Tivo box shows the difference. You should also see a difference switching PAL/RGB.

    It sounds like your Tuner/Reciever is not getting an RGB signal.

    Having Sky digibox connected directly to AV1, I'd try swapping scart leads, and swapping Sky sockets (even though we know only "tv scart" outputs RGB).

    If that doesn't work, perhaps it's the Sky digibox at fault; can you try it on another television to see if RGB output is working correctly?

    StooMonster
     
  24. symanski

    symanski
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    874
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Scotland
    Ratings:
    +8
    TiVo.

    Coulpe of things you need to do with TiVo. Ok, you've probably already know that you've got to change input and output to RGB/PAL from PAL. You've also got to power down TiVo (by pulling the plug on it!) for the changes to take effect.

    Once you've done this, then when watching true live TV you should do so using Aux. Press the Aux button on the remote until the light on TiVo changes from Green to Yellow. This does a bypass of TiVo circuitry and really does improve on the picture quality.

    As others have already stated, using one of my interfaces rather than the tuner box does give you a better picture.

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     
  25. JamesTapp

    JamesTapp
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Also,

    Tivo converts PAL composite output from the Sky box to RGB. You must set the Sky box to output RGB to get the best picture.

    James
     
  26. Bernard Barnett

    Bernard Barnett
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    671
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Ratings:
    +5
    Pete, your original question was whether you were alone. No you're not - I've experienced many of the same disappointments you have. My conclusion, and I'd like to emphasise it's a personal one and I recognise other people feel differently, is that a good CRT beats a good plasma. Of course this is a very difficult thing to admit - even to oneself - after spending two or three thousand.
     
  27. pwhite8314

    pwhite8314
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Ratings:
    +0
    Bernard - thanks, I figured the same thing, but at least I'm not going mad (or alternatively I'm not alone in my madness!)

    Stoomonster - I've tried direct connection of 2 digiboxes using different scart leads, but still the same result (although the picture from the Amstrad box was better than the Sony??). I still get the bad reds.

    Dr John - true, the picture is much better when bypasing TiVo, presumbly because it's not being encoded/compressed?

    Thanks (to all) for your help, I'll wait and see whether the new screen makes any difference (though I doubt it).
     
  28. symanski

    symanski
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    874
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Scotland
    Ratings:
    +8
    pwhite8314
    yes, if TiVo isn't passing the video through it's got to process it. It does a good job, but can't match a direct connection.

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     
  29. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    What a minute, is this reds in particular you are talking about?

    For example, on Sky News where they have a red curve does it look like this

    ##
    #
    ####
    ##
    ######
    ###
    ########

    Rather than a curve, like this

    ##
    ###
    ####
    #####
    ######
    #######
    ########

    If so, that's the infamous Chroma Bug! Sky MPEG decoders have it, some more than others; Tivo may not have it.

    Check out this link
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html Although US based and concentrated on DVD players, the same is true of Sky digital's MPEG decoder. It's only visible on progressive displays like plasmas.

    It was bad on my Sony and even Sky+ has it, but I use an iScan Ultra to improve Sky's picture and it has a chroma filter.

    Although... casting back my memory, you can't see it as clearly as my little diagrams via the Tuner; you get a horrid blurring around reds though.

    StooMonster
     

Share This Page

Loading...