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Am I over critical

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Dextur, Sep 4, 2004.

  1. Dextur

    Dextur
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    Well I saw the Samsung 42" D series in curries, less than impressed, I just purchased a graded LG 44" DLP which is going back as the picture is so bad I am presuming it's faulty and today I went to the Panasonic shop and viewed the PW6.

    It was using scart into a DVD player, scart was a top notch one, and playing Tomb Raider II .

    Was I impressed? Well, yes and no. Without a doubt it's better than the Samsung and the LP DLP , and I think just better than the Hitachi 500 series ,BUT, I am still not impressed.

    It really doesn't seem much better than my old Sony 44" projector tv I sold a few days ago.

    There is minor ghosting on text on credits, and sometimes a small shimmer of colour on bright objects, women wearing a red top had a red 'ready brek' glow around her jacket, but the colour in general did not seem to high.

    It just didn't seem pin prick sharp, I guess from a plasma I'm expecting a totally crisp picture, but I am just not seeing it.

    Is it simply a case that plasma still can't match quality CRT's or top end projector TVS? Or is it simply a case I need to spend a damm site more than 2.2K on a plasma to get a really top notch picture.

    Bah, maybe I'm just to fussy, god all I want is perfection for next to no cash! :)
     
  2. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    the SCART board for the PW6 is generally thought of as naff & gives a soft picture
    If you are gonna use SCART then it needs the JS SCART RGB plasma to VGA box
    that costs £125 from AV-sales (£10 less than the panny SCART board)

    also if the peeps in the shop gave a damn, they would have been using a component input from a progressive scan dvd player. You have to remember that Plasma screens are really PC VGA monitors, and any other input is gonna be lower in quality or an afterthought by the makers.
     
  3. MAW

    MAW
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    Panasonic shop are not really that up on connecting plasmas, and if you'd picked up the remote and pressed 'picture' you'd have seen the contrast and brightness sliders right at the top. A common error, that's not where the best picture is to be had. You force colour bleed, ghosting etc with everything set at supersonic. As PJ says, DVD is likely to be best from a decent progressive scan DVD player, via component video, and a set top box usually looks best with a scart to VGA converter. You have not seen the best that can be achieved yet.
     
  4. Dextur

    Dextur
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    Ok, thanks both. So there's hope then that even as fussy a bugger as me can get a half decent picture for under 2.3K

    PJ what's your time scale for your Samsung V?
     
  5. Dextur

    Dextur
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    MAW, when you say a 'set top box' are you referring to the terrestial picture and saying that will look best when it's connected from the tv to the Sky box with a scart cable into the scart to vga connector plumbed into the TV?
     
  6. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    waiting for me Nationwide card, gotta have 1 year free extra warrenty!
    Might still get the PW6 if I can get it with a JS SCART plasma to VGA for £1900
    (after all they selling PW6 + SCART board for that, and the JS is £10 cheaper)
    I found a tiltable universal wall mount for £65.
    I found a XBOX component switch box for £12
    I found a belkin pro vga to vga 3m cable for £5.50

    That's a decent picture for under 2k!
     
  7. MAW

    MAW
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    A slight struggle with the sense of that, but I think that's what I mean yes, Simon. Sky box-scart-VGA converter-VGA cable-plasma.
     
  8. AV Junky

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    Scart from eg Sky box or Freeview, into RGB-2-VGA convertor (JS is the 'big boy' here), then VGA from converter to plasma. Without splashing big-bucks on a separate video processor, the method above is preferred on these forums for picture quality from 'normal' TV viewing.
     
  9. MAW

    MAW
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    Yeah was also trying not to go there with the processor thing. You can always get results with a bucket load of money, it's doing it for a sensible price that's the art of it.
     
  10. Dextur

    Dextur
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    Sorry MAW, the sentance lacked a cohesive structure, but I think we are both talking the same language.

    Basically the best method for connectivity is

    DVD
    Get the component board for the Panny (unless it has that built in, I don't know) then connect via component cable from a progressive scan DVD player to the Panny.

    SKY
    Get the JS SCART RGB plasma to VGA box, then use a quality scart cable to connect from the SKY box to the Plasma using that box.

    That's the long and short of it yes?
     
  11. Radioactive__Man

    Radioactive__Man
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    Well I don't presume to have the in depth actual knowledge of some of the posters here but it is my conclusion you will need to spend at the very least 4k to get a Plasma to perform like a well setup modern RPTV.

    I base this judgement on the various set ups I have seen over past few years and more recently 3 independant demos of latest spec components. For a start it is my conclusion you need to be looking at a high definition panel and a high end DVD player, then add on the additional costs of a stand of your choice and some good quality [not stupid prices tho] connections and terminal boards.

    I know this is going to incur the wrath of a few members who have a recently got a good deal on a Panny 5/6 series high definition or Pioneer for 2K and are feeding it with their trusty sub £300 DVD player. But anyone who is thinking of re-vamping their current system [like me] and is going for latest tech, is surely looking at a HD plasma of approx 3k once you include the necessary input boards and over £750 for an HDMI output DVD Player. Hence the £4k target.

    At this precise moment I have viewed what I would suggest is one of the better performing setups which is namely a Pioneer 434HDE fed with an Arcam DV79 with HDMI, and even that has negative points in comparison to my trusty RPTV and competent tho not the best Cyrus DVD8.

    So I am holding on tight to my money for a suitable plasma till the 435 and 7 series panels are available for demo. I have taken the 1st step and will be recieving a DV79 next weekend.
     
  12. MAW

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    Yes, precisely. And whilst you can use the VGA input for component, ie it's built in, you'll be using it for VGA, so you need either a component board, or a complete board. The complete one has s-video or composite inputs also, handy for the PS2 till you get an AV amp that does component video switching, when you'd get a component kit for it, and connect dvd and ps2 via the amp.
     
  13. Dextur

    Dextur
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    Radioactive man, well to be honest right now your statement would not surprise me , because I am yet to see anything I consistently feel is as good as my old Sony RPTV.

    However for 2.1k or so I owe it to myself to see if the Panny will stop me moaning, 4k is way out of my budget.

    Spose I could just out and buy the best quality widescreen RPTV , step backwards in technology but better picture.
     
  14. MAW

    MAW
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    A fine DVD player, radioactive, why waste it on an HDE? And there'll always be something better round the corner, it's the nature of man, and his technology. I'd pop round and have a chat with Joe at The Media Factory, north of the border they are, which is a good start for you. He'll show you an HD panasonic I'm sure, and shortly the Pioneer MXE-1 with an aurora card for HDCP compliance. That will be more your kind of thing. Some folks have to be content with less cos they have less money. Or a wife who wants a kitchen as part of a deal! It's perfectly possible to get admirable results with the kind of setup under discussion here, I'm just talking him out of a Samsung! You know that makes sense.
     
  15. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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  16. Dextur

    Dextur
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    MAW I have a Denon AVR3801, not to old, dunno if it has component switching.
     
  17. Dextur

    Dextur
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    MAW ,trust me I don't need talking out of the Samsung plasma, I saw the 'D' version in action and it was horrid.
     
  18. MAW

    MAW
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    :) No worries then. 3801, I can't remember. The 3802 does, look on the back, right hand top as seen from back, are there 3 sets of 3 phono sockets, red blue and green? If not, stick to plan A, if you've got'em, go for component for a games console if you've got one, if not, and no plans to, you might as well use a component converter for Sky instead of VGA, then don't need a video board at all! 3 phono to VGA does the job, there's another thread on this right near here.
     
  19. Radioactive__Man

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    :), not an overabundance of cash here, but I always try to buy the absolute best I can afford at any given time, and that philosopy has served me well over the years.

    The DV79 is a direct replacement for a warranty repair on my 18 month old DVD8 that was taking too long to resolve. So it is merely a Plasma that complements the Arcam that I need to fund.

    Based upon the demo of the 434HDE with the DV79 I was not convinced to purchase, even tho it was better than when it was connected to my DVD8 by quite a margin, hence the reason I am holding off for the next models.

    Additionally I want either integral DVB or an option via plug in module at a later date, getting rather tired of all the unecessary wiring involved with HC :)
     
  20. zedzed

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    xbox component switch box??? Do you have a link?

    ZedZed
     
  21. pjclark1

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  22. MAW

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    Radioactive, clearly you are a purist, may I entreat you not to get an integrated TV display? You will be disappointed eventually. You must have an AV amp for video switching? What's wrong with plugging a freeview box into that?
     
  23. Radioactive__Man

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    Purist is a bit of a strong term :), just want best for my money and will pay extra if it gives better dividends

    I currently have a very slim Pace STB for Freeview which also has a nice optical output for sound :), but as I said if I can get integrated all the better, however the #1 contender in my list has now been removed from consideration, namely the Viera. and mostly due to the non HDMI. additionally I can't help feeling the huge stocks of the model here and all the special offers with free 5 year warranty and interest free deals are Panasonic desperately making way for their new models.

    It is so obvious that if I bought a Viera now I would be really annoyed come next month :)

    You are right I do currently use a 640SE, but I would lose RGB output through scart, unless I buy a scart-component adaptor lead, as the amp only has component and s-video connections. I am also worried that there may be some signal loss using this method, which is why I have never went this route so far, but you've got me thinking now :lesson:
     
  24. MAW

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    Yes, a component converter is one way, but it's actually cheaper to buy a netgem i-player with component output.
     
  25. Dextur

    Dextur
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    Well I am going to see what the replacement LG DLP looks like if it's just as bad I am going to give up, break the balance and get the Panny , with a set up as you described MAW.

    I'm so frustrated that so far I have not seen as good a picture from anything as I used to have with my 4 yrd old Sony RPTV, disapointing having the illusion shattered that a plasma would totally trash my old tv's picture.

    Hey are there any good widescreen RPTV out there .. wrong section of the forum I guess.
     
  26. Radioactive__Man

    Radioactive__Man
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    The best one I saw recently was a new model Toshiba, setup in the lounge of an IBIS hotel in Shipley. Very striking picture and that was purely from a Freeview STB.

    This is also the reason I was so disappointed with the Sony RPTV, the picture was "dead" for want of a better word in comparison.

    Viewing angle was much improved over my current Toshiba also
     
  27. Dextur

    Dextur
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    Ok , long story very short, the LG DLP has gone back, just not good enough so I'm back to the Panny option, so.....

    I've got the manual out and it does indeed have the component sockets, but I have a few questions if possible you could help with.

    I've got only 3 sockets on the amp, 2 in and one out.

    So I would plug my DVD player into the one marked DVD

    I would plug the Sky into the DBS (BTW does DBS stand for digital something sattelite?)

    And I would plug the plasma itself into the Monitor out component socket.

    But this leaves me with the Xbox and VHS ( I have to keep VHS the missus is a school teacher and she needs to be able to record history stuff for the kids)

    So would I in this case, use a normal scart for the VHS and Xbox? And keep the SKY and DVD on the better quality component connections.

    Finally If I am using 2 scarts, how will I connect them, I can't see any other way but to buy another box of tricks like the Quntro scart box...

    Can you advise on which way around you would do this to maxmise picture, the Xbox and VHS are by far and away the least important to me , my criteria for quality goes... SKY (as it will also now be my terrestial signal)- DVD - Xbox - VHS

    Finally, honestly the last finally.... I would like it so the setup allows me to use my DVD recorder to easily tape SKY and also to record from the VHS player (if poss, it does now).

    Thanks Maw, greatly appreciate your time in helping me out with this.
     
  28. MAW

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    No worries, what I'd do for the very best without launching into scalers etc, is DVD-amp, x-box hi def kit-amp, amp-plasma complete video board, then sky to VGA converter-plasma vga. VHS to sky in the usual way, and VHS to composite on the plasma video board. It's certainly possible to do the scart board route, at a saving of about £200 (no VGA converter, no complete video board, scart board instead) But as you would like the best, comesurate with not breaking the bank, I recommend the 1st way.
     
  29. Dextur

    Dextur
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    Yikes ok sorry getting a bit lost

    So

    1. DVD - Amp, makes sence use component, no problem.

    2. Xbox (hi def kit) to - AMP, what is a hi def kit? Link etc? Also really not worried about xbox looks unless it's worse than I have now with a cheap scart that can probably do without a 'hi def kit'

    3. Amp-Plasma with a 'complete video board'. Is 'complete' the brand?

    4. Sky to Plasma 'VGA' converter (is that a scart?) Getting lost here, what was wrong with the component option? Or is the 'vga' converter 'better;?

    5. VHS to Plasma via complete board , make sence , I presume this 'complete board' is like the scart board everyone talks about but with more conenctions?

    As I am already way over budget £200 is £200. I will pay it if you say it will really increase PQ on Sky and DVD , but not otherwise, you feel it will make a big diff?

    As I say, xbox and VHS, in truth I could care less about for the most part.
     
  30. MAW

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    X box the hi def kit is just a component output kit, you'll need best quality as the plasma is probably fussier than other displays you've dealt with. The JS tech RGB to VGA box is the best method for sky, and uses the VGA connection, so you need to add to the screen a component for the amp connection, and a composite for the VHS. Cheapest way is with the complete video board, made by panasonic, it's one of the modular slot in boards you specify and buy with the screen. Easy peasy really. If you are pushing the budget hard, the get the scart board, you'll also be on home territory with connecting it! just a scart daisy chain then. You'll need to look back a few posts for the component cable, 3 phono to VGA plug. If it's all connected and the colours are wrong, you change the colourspace setting in the screen menu, from RGB to Component.
     

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