Am I mad - DIY sub?

[bparkes]

Hi All,

Sorry for the long rambling post...

I've been trying to decide what to do about a sub, I've been thinking of getting one since I got most of my home cinema stuff a few years ago. My speakers do a great job all things considered (Dynaudio 62s) but I sometimes feel the bass could be deeper and there could be more punch. They are at their best when being driven hard by my Denon AVC-11SR and I can't ever want for more power for the size room they're in (around 4 x 3 meters) and the speakers will happily cope with the amp set to 0 (reference I guess) my ears won't though.

I've been looking at the SVS subs etc. wondering for ages what to do, my problem is, I think I need a big driver and lots of power for the sort of bass I want. I've grown up listening to some old Sony SS G7 speakers with 15" drivers and I'm yet to hear something with smaller drivers that match the quality / depth of bass.

I've been thinking about building my own sub as I'm pretty handy making stuff and it seems you can get pretty good modular amps etc for sensible money. It also doesn't seem to be too hard to get hold of a good 15 or 18" driver. Simply put I was thinking of a sealed enclosure, big driver and lots of power with the enclosure being made of either double 18mm MDF or single 30mm MDF with suitable bracing etc. The correct sizes for a given driver don't seem to be too hard to figure out, and if it's not any good I could always change the design.

Has anyone else done this? Any suggestions? Does anyone else think I should just give up now and buy one?

Cheers,

Ben.

 

[tahirti3]

no not mad.if done well a diy sub can outperform commercial subs at 3 times the price.look at bk electronics for the amp and get the best you can afford.the bigger brother to the monolith amp should be good.
i had my 15 inch drivers sent over from america.they are made by tc-sounds.
there are some decent drivers on the bk site as well.depends on your budget.
i used double 25mm mdf all round,and they sound great.

you have some good speakers in the dynaudios,so you should go for a high quality subwoofer.

 

[AngelEyes]

Sounds like a lot of fun but you may want to do the sums before you start as a Sub from BK or SVS is going to be good value for money anyway and chances are, with no disrespect the finish will be better too . Although you say it sounds pretty simple, most of these manufacturers have been doing it for years and there are plenty that get it wrong...

I believe SVS are soon to introduce a 14 or 15" driver based subwoofer, the new Ultra. If you like mental levels of bass then this would seem to tick your boxes.

I also reckon you should do the rounds and demo some of the higher end subs so you know what you are aiming for.

Either way let us know how you get on!

Adam

 

[IronGiant]

I think last time I priced it up the beautifully crafted box Bk produce came out as not a vast amont more than i would pay for the raw materials alone, so I certainly wouldn't DIY again, although it was cost effective at the time, because weren't building the subs they are now.

 

[c3ham]

i made my own sub not up to the standard your looking for but does the job for me, it was fun to build http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=387539&highlight=c3ham

you could try here for parts http://www.lautsprechershop.de/english/index_hifi.htm

 

[fullthrottleric]

Have a look at the DS-12 or DS-15 kits at Rythmik Audio.

They use drivers made specifically for them by TC Sounds, and are the only DIY components to use servo feedback. I built the sealed version of the DS-12 and it sounds great once I BFD'd out all my room peaks which you don't realise you have until you have strong output in-room down to 10Hz The output of the thing is immense too, I can confidently say the 15" version will demolish your house

Mine cost less than £300 to build, although the box it's in at the moment isn't pretty; it's built into the bottom of my wardrobe so who cares lol

 

[po_man]

i made my own sub not up to the standard your looking for but does the job for me, it was fun to build http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=387539&highlight=c3ham

you could try here for parts http://www.lautsprechershop.de/english/index_hifi.htm

Stunning work c3ham - great looking sub

 

[tahirti3]

if you enjoy the challenge of making these things and do your homework carefully,you will not regret making your own.
i recently read that a $30,000 krell sub uses tc-sounds drivers,and they are only their mid-range units.we are now able to buy these drivers and better ones at half decent prices so have a go.

 

[bparkes]

Thanks for all the replies chaps, not had chance to check on here since just after posting the thread.

If I didn't think I could make it to a standard I'd be happy with I wouldn't bother, I think I fancy giving it a try it would appear finding good drivers isn't a problem, it's just trying to find an amp that's upto the job but I might have found one of them too.

c3ham - that is top work, as are the others in your thread, thanks for the link, I think I'm going to start with trying to find a driver that is suitable then the amp then think about the enclosure - where did you start?

If anyone has any suggestions for UK voltage sub amps that are over 250W rms into 8 ohms let me know (i found a US site that does 1KW amps but there only 110V)

Cheers all,

Ben.

 

[c3ham]

Thanks for all the replies chaps, not had chance to check on here since just after posting the thread.

If I didn't think I could make it to a standard I'd be happy with I wouldn't bother, I think I fancy giving it a try it would appear finding good drivers isn't a problem, it's just trying to find an amp that's upto the job but I might have found one of them too.

c3ham - that is top work, as are the others in your thread, thanks for the link, I think I'm going to start with trying to find a driver that is suitable then the amp then think about the enclosure - where did you start?

If anyone has any suggestions for UK voltage sub amps that are over 250W rms into 8 ohms let me know (i found a US site that does 1KW amps but there only 110V)

Cheers all,

Ben.

hi ben

well to be honest i didnt have a clue i decided to try and build a sub as a project i found a diy audio forum asked alot of stupid question and some guys with alot of knowledge helped me out, you should maybe check it out http://www.diyaudio.com/


First i used a program called winisd to simulate the responce of different driver in different boxes http://www.linearteam.dk/ i ended up going with a 17litre sealed box with a peerless 10" XXLS 4ohm driver and a Detonation DT150 amplifier.

i then used autocad to do my drawings (probably overkill but thats just me)

for the construction of the box i used 22mm MDF and used biscuit joints to hold the baby together and a router and a jig i made to cut the speaker hole out and glued it together with PVA glue.

heres a picture to give you an idea of the construction


c3ham

 

[bparkes]

Thanks, I started to look at diyaudio last week, lots of reading to do.

http://www.lautsprechershop.de/english/index_hifi.htm - thanks for this link they seem to have an excellent selection of amps.

Interesting to see your sub being built, thanks for the pic.

 

[bparkes]

if you enjoy the challenge of making these things and do your homework carefully,you will not regret making your own.
i recently read that a $30,000 krell sub uses tc-sounds drivers,and they are only their mid-range units.we are now able to buy these drivers and better ones at half decent prices so have a go.

Which TC Sounds driver did you use? I've been looking at the 15" TC-3000, they seem to understand my idea of OVER engineering.

 

[tahirti3]

i went for 2 tc-3000 15inchers.and you are right about the engineering.
went with their recommended sealed box volumes at 3 cu.ft.been listening to them for a couple of weeks now and am very happy with them.bear in mind that it is a great time to spend in the us of a.

 

[Nimby]

i went for 2 tc-3000 15inchers.and you are right about the engineering. Bear in mind that it is a great time to spend in the us of a.

Have you imported a pair of these heavy speakers to the UK?

May I know what the total cost came to with freight, VAT and import taxes?

Did you buy straight from the manufacturers or from a dealer?

Thanks

 

[tahirti3]

yes i got these from the states,and yes the are beasts.
having an older brother who lives in new york was very helpful.but even more helpful was knowing someone who serves in the us armed forces.
i better not say any more.

 

[tahirti3]

sorry,these are direct from manufacturer only. no dealers.

 

[Nimby]

Understood. Thanks.

 

[bparkes]

2 of them good work.

Sorry to keep asking daft questions, but what sort of power are you running and did you use filtering / EQ as they suggest?

Looking at the sealed box frequency response for 1 15" TC3000 is no way near what I expected (-10dB at around 30Hz) however, winISD seems to suggest it only needs a 32.1l cabinet.

I fear I have a LOT more reading to do...

 

[kstrain]

2 of them good work.

I fear I have a LOT more reading to do...

For any conventional design (sealed, reflex ...) it can be a good idea to pick the box volume and desired tuning, then find the best driver that works.
Bigger volume means better efficiency, and is a large step on the way to smaller distortion. Of course, going from a long-throw driver to an extremely-long-throw one can gain back a bit.

If you can live with, say 100L, and use a decent driver, it will likely work better than almost anything in a 30L box.

In the end I found a Monolith (around 100L) was so close to what I wanted that building one was not really worth it, even with all the fun to be had.

You should also try to find evidence that the driver parameters you read in the data sheets are close to reality - sometimes that is not so (due to changes in design that don't make it through to the datasheets perhaps). Best to find a sub using the driver, and showing measured performance that you are happy with (commercial or DIY).

(BYW I'm not commenting about any manufacturer in particular here. )

Tactics may also depend on the type and amount of EQ you are prepared to do (either simple "theoretical" EQ based on box models and room size, or measurement-based EQ, when there is the chance of better integration and perhaps a little more room for minor tuning errors).

Deciding some of these up front may help convergence on a design.

Ken

 

[bparkes]

I can live with 100L (probably more) but winISD is suggesting for a flat reponse (Qtc .71) a 32.1l enclosure for the sub I mentioned above, I think the manufacturer specs are accurate for these particular drivers but I know what you mean. It's just the manufacturer recommends a 3 cu.ft enclosure and I'd like to understand why if that makes sense.

 

[tahirti3]

i am using 1000 watt rms for two drive units and applying some eq.i thought that if tc can supply the likes of krell and svs and many more,they should be good enough for me.

 

[bparkes]

I didn't realise how old this thread was, but I hadn't forgotten about my plan, I just got a little distracted this year.

I had a bit of a moment a few months ago and got in contact with TC-Sounds as I noticed they were planning on no longer selling direct which was a shame, they then has some rather good deals on, I couldn't decide which driver to order and I'm still not 100% sure what I've ended up with however ad far as I can tell it's a 15" TC3000 with dual voice coils (I ordered a TC2000 but the weight and packaging seem to suggest it's a TC3000).

I've pretty much decided I'll be getting a behringer feedback destroyer to sort out the EQ and probably a Behringer EP2500 to power it. I hope to start thinking about the enclosure in the near future however I do know it'll be sealed. Suggestions are welcome!

I thought some of the more nutty folk on here might like to giggle at the driver:

I don't think the neighbours are going to like this one bit.

PS... there may be stupid questions coming and I'll try and show you what I end up with.

 

[suniil]

Nice one, looking forward to hear your findings

you are lucky mate! now their (audiopulse) prices gone up a lot. I've an eye on these.

 

[HiFiRuss71]

Definitely looks like a TC3K driver due to the basket design.

The 3K seems to have evolved into the Axis, but there looks to have been significant changes to the roll surround.

Either way - bloody nice driver!

Russell

 

[tahirti3]

that is one awesome driver.i have been using mine for a while now and still get surprised at how low and fast and defined the bass is.and if you like it loud,your neighbours are in some large trouble.