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Am I going over to the dark side?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by maxib, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. maxib

    maxib
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    Guys I need help. NEEEEEED a new tv soon cos my old crt died. I seemed to have narrowed my choice down to 37 or possibly 42 Panasonic 500.
    But then i started reading the lcd threads and reviews. Normally lcd didnt seem to compete with plasmas as far as picture quality concerned (I got this impression too walking around shops) but now there's the What Hi fi overall winner 2005, philips 9830 where pixels are more than pan 500 (am i right?) and quality of image superb. Looking at threads on plasmas here i'm starting to get concerned with issues such as running-in time, image retention or burn-in (the tv will be on bright-logo-channels like kids tv and sports for long periods of time), shorter life-span than lcds etc. I'm being drawn to the lcd side but there is still a reluctancy to leave the world of plasma and in particular the 500. Can anyone offer any defence to these concerns of mine in relation to the "superiority" of lcd. I know, in this thread, this will have lots of you getting out the kitchen knives but i am genuinely confused and need help to decide.
     
  2. Piers

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    Total pixel count isn't the whole answer to image quality. More pixels are generally a good thing but not always.

    Don't get over worried about image retention, running in time and so on. If you are thinking about a PV500 it is a minor worry, if you have been persuaded from last night's / this morning's exchanges about panels rather than "TVs" then image retention etc is a total non-issue with the PWD8.
     
  3. Faust

    Faust
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    Panny Plasma - running in! old wives tale, not necessary whatsoever and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. I got this message straight from Panasonic themselves, and my local Panny dealer from who I bought my PE50 laughed fit to burst when I asked the question. Image retention - same story, at least with the Panny. I forget the other night and left my Sky+ programme running, it had stopped at some point and the static picture image must have been on for ages before I noticed - not one jot of image retention or anything else for that matter. For goodness sake just buy it turn it on enjoy it and stop believing all the scare stories.
     
  4. stevedster

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    must back this up, i have a pio436, just using it as norm, no probs here. just be sensible with your purchase and you will be fine, plasmas are still king at larger sizes.
     
  5. maxib

    maxib
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    Thanks! IF I can continue to nag (please!), what does it mean in the brochure when it says that life span is counted at 60000 hrs - this is when the screen is working at 50% its original brightness? Does this mean that the screen gets progressively duller as the hours rack up? Would this mean watching at say a 1/3 intensity after some time and would this still be offering us an acceptable picture? Any ideas how quickly it deteriorates?
     
  6. stevedster

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    right 60,000 hours.... lets work this out....

    if you watched it for 8 hrs per day which in itself is unlikely then you would still have 20.5 years of viewing ! dont worry about this!
     
  7. maxib

    maxib
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    I guess you're right - i just hope the duller picture comes very much towards the end of the twenty years. I suppose i'm nit picking but i NEVER EVER thought i would even be considering spending £2000 on a tv! I just want to be absolutely sure that i'm spending it on the right thing. Thanks for the advice!
     
  8. stevedster

    stevedster
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    nor did i, but i bit the bullet and got one, and i am a very happy customer, i did spend near another grand on audio too tho lol however i would rather be satisfied with spending several thousand than be unsatisfied with spending a thousand odd, im sure you get my drift.
     
  9. Lionheart

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    Whew Faust.....dont forget to tell mal600908 to amend the pv500 sticky which contains info about running a screen in.....those lads at Panasonic hey, Im so glad they are not like alot of manufacturers who would tell us what they think we might want to hear...well thats me convinced :devil:
     
  10. k0rn

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    I had a look at that Philips panel and it looked really awful to my eyes...

    Don't let them fool you... resolution isn't all that counts.
     
  11. Faust

    Faust
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    Well I'm into week three now, and I treat my Panny Plasma just like my old CRT i.e. if the red dots on its on, if the logos are there they are there. As I mentioned before I forgot about my Sky+ prog coming to an end and the static image must have been on screen for ages. I have not reduced any of the settings or messed in general, the factory defaults are fine, and I have not got any screen issues at all, despite my apparent abuse if all this running in malarkey is to be believed (which I don't). People worry to much, talk about nanny state, there are earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, death all over the world, and here we are worrying about an some imaginary after image or screen burn (more chance of finding hens teeth) with a Panasonic panel. P.S. my PE50 manual does not appear to mention "running in"?
     
  12. Lionheart

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    Fair enough...each to their own of course but I dont think you should dismiss it out of hand....It may just work for someone else with a different tv, someone who reads your words and decides not to do a run in....after all the run in cant do any harm...on the other hand dimissing it out of hand just might :(....oh and ps...since when did taking a bit of extra care of a plasma have anything to do with a nanny state, earthquakes, floods and hurricanes :rotfl: (except to watch em lol)
     
  13. maxib

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    Really? Is the increase in resolution not really that noticeable then? I was lookng at the Panasonic brochure and noticed that the 42' 500 has more pixel count (is that correct?) than the 37' Is this simply because the screen is actually physically larger? In that case why would the 32' lcd 500 have higher pixel count than both of these larger screens? Does it mean that higher resolution on smaller screen=better sharper pictures? Sorry if these questions sound daft to some of you but i honestly dont know - this forum is where i learn everything!
     
  14. k0rn

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    It isn't about pixel count... I think the difference in PQ is mainly due to the different technologies. Plasma just performs better IMO.

    You have to consider that a Plasma picture usually has much more vibrant colours, the black levels are MUCH better than LCDs and so the overall picture is just far superiour.

    I haven't seen a single LCD that performed like a Plasma, despite their higher resolutions. At first I was stunned about this rule just keeps on living no matter which LCD I have a look at.

    But yeah, sure, if there were two identical Plasmas with different resolutions, the one with the higher resolution would win..

    PS: Be sure to look at the different technologies yourself, maybe you like the LCDs... :D
     
  15. Faust

    Faust
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    I know what you are saying, however, one would have thought that the PV500 should have a better PQ than the PE50 and yet I among many others on this forum are dammed if we can see that difference whether the source is HD or SD...?
     
  16. maxib

    maxib
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    Great. When you say "identical" presumably you mean in screen size? Could the 37' 500 rival the 42' 500 in PQ then even with lower pixels? Is this lower pixel count attributed solely to the decrease in screen size?
     
  17. k0rn

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    If you compare SD material on a SD screen and a HD screen you'll notice little (if any) difference. Feed the PV500 with some REAL HD-stuff. If you don't see a difference there you should have your eyes checked... ;)

    @maxib: I think you worry too much. I've seen both, the 42" (1024x768) and the 37 (1024x720) PV500 and there is NO, I repeat NO difference in PQ. One is bigger and has some pixels more, the other is smaller and "needs" less pixels... at the end of the day, they look just identical.
    I suppose you could go and do the math on the dpi on both screens... but that's just ridiculous because in REALITY they just look the same.
     
  18. maxib

    maxib
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    Thanks kOrn, thats pretty much exactly what i needed to hear. I guess i'm still stuck at the stage when i was researching camcorders and cameras and there EVERYTHING seemed to depend on get higher pixel count. Not only that but some of the messages on the lcd forum are implying that the lcds are better because they cram more pixels into the same size screens and it all boils down to resolution - but you've told me what i needed to hear. BY the way, what is dpi?
     
  19. k0rn

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    DPI = dots per inch.

    This is the resolution in relation to the screen size. (how many pixels are there per inch)

    But like I said, this is all theoretical stuff...
     
  20. maxib

    maxib
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    Got it! Thanks!
     
  21. Faust

    Faust
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    Well perhaps I along with many others on this forum need to have our eyes checked, becauses lots and lots of us cannot see any difference between the PE50 and the PV500 running a Hi Def Demo (the one Panasonic use to demonstrate the virtues of their PV500 for example). My local Panasonic store are running both these panels side by side with a Hi Def source to demonstrate that very point to customers. I was in the store this afternoon and spent some time looking very closely at both panels to see if I could tell the difference, and even from two feet away I could not - honestly. Sorry if you have bought the PV500 and that upsets you, perhaps you bought it for a reason other than Hi Def PQ. However, if you bought it simply for that reason then as far as I'm concerend you might as well have purchased the PE50 and saved your money.
     
  22. philangst

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    Totally agree, I saw these sets side by side showing pictures from a high def source (euro 1080 sat channel) and couldn't tell the difference. Maybe I'm not that discerning!!
     
  23. Lionheart

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    You are right Faust...all of us that have bought PV500s instead of PE50s are wrong and you are right....all of us that run our Plasmas in are wrong and you are right
     
  24. Majid Khan

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    Must say, its so pleasing to read Fausts' comments on the PE50 :)

    The bit about that bloke at the Panasonic store bursting out in laughter at the suggestion of a PE50 needing 200 hrs running in is quite funny :D

    Also while i haven't seen HD on the PE50... one thing i will say is the SD pic quality that I've seen on the PE50 is noticeable superior to what i've seen on the PV500..

    I also think there is substance to the claim that the PE50 and PV500 with High Def are almost on par with each other despite the latter's higher res, given that Faust isn't the only one who mentions this but a few others have also said the same recently.. i've also read some threads on the us based AVSforums where ppl reckon watching HD on a hd plasma and a sd plasma from a normal viewing distance, its almost impossible to tell the difference.. simply because the detail from the extra pixels on a High Def screen (which are also smaller pixels than those of the SD plasma) are lost the further away from the screen you go..

    So i guess unless you are within 2-3 ft of viewing distance of your plasma, its pretty likely that you wont be able to see any difference between a PV500 showing HD and a PE50 in HD.. unless you watch your tele through a telescope! :)

    It feels great to know that i've saved a grand by going for the PE50 and not the PV500 and yet i've not lost anything in terms of picture quality ...

    If anything the PE50 is superior to the PV500 in certain other aspects, or so it seems.. such as image rention/burn resistance (Panasonic's SD plasmas are known to be the best out there in this aspect), buzzing (a problem many ppl have had with the PV500, but the PE50 is fanless and very quiet - although i do get a bit of hissing on mine now and again), horizontal line (only an issue with the PV500s - apparently its on every single one or so the experts say), and that famous auto contrast issue (many ppl have had this with the PV500, but its not known to be an issue on the PE50)

    So if anything, I've spent £1000 less and gained not only just as good performance from the plasma but also a more reliable and robust one it seems.. brilliant! and i could save that £1000 and go for a 50" plasma next year or so once HD arrives.. by next Christmas, i'm assuming we might see 50" hd plasmas for about 2 grand.. anyone else think so?
     
  25. Lionheart

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    Hmmm...seems like now we have...lets bash the PV500 owners thread....lets change things ....all you people who have the PE50 do infact have an inferior TV...not capable of hi def...unable to take advantage of the latest technology such as the xbox 360 to its fullest extent, unable to stream digital signals directly to the screen, unable to take advantage of HD dvd machines when they arrive....my TV is better, my TV is better, my TV is better......this is all daft and I think it can only cause hassle on here....personally I think both models are excellent and to compare them with a view to running down the other one is nonsense.....people choose a model for a variety of reasons and not because: I think my TV is better than yours because....
     
  26. k0rn

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    I watch HD. Daily. Go ahead and feed the PV500 with a real 720P signal and tell me you don't see a difference... the PV500 (fed with really good HD material) offers the best PQ I've ever seen. Ever.

    If there wouldn`t be a difference between 480P and 720P I wouldn`t have bought the PV500. Heck, why would anyone buy a 720 line-plasma if it wouldn't make a difference? Gosh, that's just BS.

    When evaulating the PA50 I was stunned by the great PQ, but saying it would be the same as the PV500 in regards to HDTV is just nonsense, sorry.

    I think the PA50 is a great Plasma but it's just not a HD panel and therefore you don't see the whole 720 lines. It's that easy and undeniable. If you say that you can't spot the difference between physical 480 and 720 lines, then I think we should stop the argument right here because it just doesn'T make sense. :rolleyes:

    If it makes you happy then go on, tell yourself that the PA50 is the same as the PV500.
     
  27. acrmorris

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    :clap: Definitely gets applause from me Lionheart. As I said in response to rover2002 in another thread, the forum seems to be moving from discussion to slagging off where the top few plasmas are concerned. I'm begining to feel guilty about asking pv500 questions because I thing someone else is going to take the :censored: out of me for being so stupid as to go and buy one!
     
  28. Ekko Star

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    This forum is what YOU the users make it. Do not feel intimidated not to ask reasonable questions if you so wish.

    The PV500 is well documented here so many topics have already been covered and a quick search will help. The PE50 is the same. Both are mighty fine screens and both have a few niggles.

    Demo & decide on your budget. If your happy that's all that matters.
     
  29. Lionheart

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    Thank you acmorris....I agree. Of course there is nothing wrong with a bit of locking horns from time to time, but this kind of thing serves to help no one IMO
     
  30. acrmorris

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    Words of wisdon, Ekko Star. I hope others read and inwardly digest your post.

    There is no best plasma as far as I'm concerned, but as I've read elsewhere, everybody who has invested a substantial amount into purchasing one is just buying what they consider the best choice for the money. If they've researched here, they are already streets ahead of the rest of the country and therefore have invested in the best screen to suit their own individual needs, whether that be Panasonic/Pioneer/Hitachi or whatever. Live and let live!
     

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