Alternatives to a DD-18?

[cj]

Am currently in the market for a new sub as my trusty Velodyne HGS-18 needs a some urgent repair. I naturally assumed I'd just buy a DD-18, but are there any other subs I should be looking at in the same league?

Thanks

 

[recruit]

Hi cj - as a natural progression the DD18 would certainly be the obvious choice as the DD range are superb subs and so easy to intergrate into any system.

I would also look at the M&KMX5100SF as an alternative if you can find one which is the best sub i have heard, also SVS has just announced that the new Ultra subs are comeing very soon so should also be seriously considered.

 

[Badger0-0]

Some of the high end SVS might do a job, you'd have to do a bit of research.
I don't know much a DD18 costs, but would suspect you may be able to get 2 SVS' for the same price.

 

[eviljohn2]

Also some of the larger studio subs may be appropriate depending on your room size. The big Genelecs are phenomenal.

Of course one of the other crucial benefits of the DD series is the digital room correction and crossover manipulating software so if you go elsewhere I'd certainly recommend looking at something along the lines of an SMS1 to reign the sub in where necessary.

 

[cj]

Thanks for the suggestions - a M&K may be a good match for the rest of my speakers (7x M&K SW150), but I'm liking the price of the SVS subs - I could two SVS PB12-Plus/2 + SMS1 for the price of a DD-18 or MX5100

How about Sunfire - anything to recommend there?

Has anyone any experience with both Velodyne and SVS?

I also see there's a SVS PB13 due - does that mean they'll be a PB13 Ultra/2 in the pipeline? Are these due this year - I can hardly bear to watch or listen to anything ATM without a sub, although the missus and neighbours are happy

 

[Badger0-0]

Apparently, this spanked a pair of DD18s
Possibly getting away from the realms of reality, but check out the price, even with the seperate amp
Sadly, I doubt it has CE certification, but shows there is better to be had at decent prices.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_3/svs-b4-subwoofer-9-2003.html

 

[Steve N]

I also see there's a SVS PB13 due - does that mean they'll be a PB13 Ultra/2 in the pipeline?

Not necessarily, at least for UK buyers.
They never shipped the PB12 Ultra/2 to the UK and would not even sell directly to UK customers after there was an authorised sales outlet over here.
I was lucky enough to get mine off someone who had imported it prior to them blocking exports to private UK customers.

 

[recruit]

cj - i'd recommend getting in touch with AV Sales as they will most probably be able to assist in helping you get demos of the SVS subs and i am not sure but they still may have some M&K subs too, great bunch of guys down there and some of the nicest demo rooms.

 

[Badger0-0]

Wait and go with 2 PB13s, IMO.

They will stomp any other sub going, IMO.

Delivery is expected around the end of July, so expect October

 

[javry]

............. Has anyone any experience with both Velodyne and SVS? .............

I've had experience with both....though not specifically with the DD-18. I know this is a bit of a panacea but a lot depends on your room and what you're looking for. Objectively, you can't go wrong with either but given the price difference, my leaning would go toward SVS.

 

[javry]

Apparently, this spanked a pair of DD18s
Possibly getting away from the realms of reality, but check out the price, even with the seperate amp
Sadly, I doubt it has CE certification, but shows there is better to be had at decent prices.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_3/svs-b4-subwoofer-9-2003.html

Badger,
On a quick word, I think this model has been discontinued. SVS is supposed to be coming out with another version at some point though and I'm gambling that the price won't be as graceful as before. The price of the B4+, at the time [03 thru 04], was an absolute steal given the performance spec.

 

[Badger0-0]

Badger,
On a quick word, I think this model has been discontinued. SVS is supposed to be coming out with another version at some point though and I'm gambling that the price won't be as graceful as before. The price of the B4+, at the time [03 thru 04], was an absolute steal given the performance spec.

You are, of course, totally correct
I saw that post a long while ago.
I just forgot how long it was

My question would be, can SVS keep pushing the boundaries?
Hopefully so

 

[javry]

You are, of course, totally correct
I saw that post a long while ago.
I just forgot how long it was

My question would be, can SVS keep pushing the boundaries?
Hopefully so

Well, there is always the inevitable law of diminishing returns to consider but IMO, I think they will continue to find new ways to enhance bass performance as technology evolves. Those new Ultra-13" drivers are a good example. On the other hand, there's also something to be said for letting a few "band-wagons" go by and enjoying what you've got for a while longer before jumping on

 

[Smurfin]

Wait and go with 2 PB13s, IMO.

They will stomp any other sub going, IMO.

I know you bracketed both comments with "IMO" but honestly, have you heard alot of the other subs mentioned? Or owned them? Or compared any of them? I have no doubt that the PB13 is going to be something special, but honestly, that's such a sweeping statement you just made. "Stomp any other sub going"? Annoys me when I read comments like that for a product which no-one has heard yet

To the OP, I've owned both the big SVS's and Velodynes, just going to bed now but I'll post some proper thoughts tomorrow which may be of interest.

 

[wonka1]

although not available in my neck of the woods, (Australia) one subwoofer that is getting astonishing reviews is the JL fathom 113. It may not be available in the u.k yet either, however hopefully it will be exported shortly. The most amazing thing is the near 4 inch of peak to peak excursion. People with far more knowlwedge than I claim it has comparable output at least to a DD18 and even better. Its output at 25hz is astonishing!!!

The m&k mx 5100 sf would be interesting, but no data is available on it's output, though recruit seems more than qualified as a consultant considering the pedigree of subs that he has owned. The lack of reviews on m&k products is ridiculous. I hope they (m&k) return but I am doubtful.

 

[cj]

Thanks for all the inputs guys - much appreciated (and looking forward to your SVS vs. Velodyne comments Smurfin). Unfortunately I can't wait until July/October as my HSG 18 is out of action as of now (hopefully going back for repair next week).

The room is approx. 11m x 4m and is feeling rather empty without a big sub

 

[bobdixon]

I can make a fair comparison as have had PB10 which was a great sub for the money. I then had a pair of PB12+ which I found a little underwhelming considering what I expected. I tried BFD, REW, and SMS-1 to no avail. I also had a TACT 2.2x which still didn't cut it. I decided to buy a DD15 which was a major improvement such that I still have it now

I do believe that the room is such a major influence on a sub that home demo is important. And I wonder if front firing subs suit my room which would go some way to explaining my satisfaction with PB10 and DD15 and not with PB12+

I've never heard an Ultra - they have great reviews but then again so did PB12+

I doubt I'll change except to either get an additional DD15 (or maybe a big M&K though I'd want to demo first).

 

[javry]

cj, were you happy with the HSG before it went blank on you?

 

[Badger0-0]

I know you bracketed both comments with "IMO" but honestly, have you heard alot of the other subs mentioned? Or owned them? Or compared any of them? I have no doubt that the PB13 is going to be something special, but honestly, that's such a sweeping statement you just made. "Stomp any other sub going"? Annoys me when I read comments like that for a product which no-one has heard yet

To the OP, I've owned both the big SVS's and Velodynes, just going to bed now but I'll post some proper thoughts tomorrow which may be of interest.

Fair comment
And to answer your question, no, I haven't heard a DD18.
I've heard a few SVS' though and plenty of inferior stuff.
I suppose I should have replaced the "IMO" with "at a guess"

Of course I haven't heard the 13 either, but I was going on the fact that it will tune to 10hz.
Will the DD18? (I genuinely don't know).
Staying with that, I'd still guess 2 13's will take some serious beating.
My (albeit limited with an SPL meter with subs) experience suggests that SVS does what it says on the tin.

I quoted the B4 earlier in the thread, as a bit of an outlandish example, but IMO, the overall power doesn't matter.
Who runs their sub full belt?
More important to me is depth and speed

If you're saying the DD does something vastly better that justifies the price difference, I'm happy to accept it
Although, to me, built in EQ doesn't cut it, when a bit of work with a £100 BFD can provide the same

 

[Nimby]

I don't think the JL fathom 113 is available in a 230Volt version.
(I'm quoting a member posting on another forum)

 

[Smurfin]

Of course I haven't heard the 13 either, but I was going on the fact that it will tune to 10hz.

Yet by itself that means nothing. Some of the older SVS's sound better in particular tuning modes, in my experience on the PB-12 Plus/2 the 20hz tuning sounded better than the 16hz. Equally on the PCU I had 16hz sounded better than 20....the point is, just because you CAN tune it to 10hz doesn't mean you should.

Although, to me, built in EQ doesn't cut it, when a bit of work with a £100 BFD can provide the same

If you're referring to the SMS-1 or built-in EQ of the DD series then you're very much misguided if you think the BFD provides the same. It simply doesn't.

 

[Smurfin]

In response to the OP, I think it certainly is worth looking at the higher end SVS's.

Having owned the PC Ultra, PB-12 Plus/2, Velodyne DD-15 and 18s, I can say I prefer the Velodynes in my own room, but then size and aesthetics do come into it.

Having said that, the playing field has certainly evened with the introduction of the SMS-1 and the fact that the SVS box subs look stunning in wood finishes If you can accomodate their size, for around the same money as the DD-18, you could get 2 x SVS PB-12 Plus/2s and an SMS-1. Now with that power on tap, 4 x 12" drivers and all EQ'd with the SMS, as well as greater flexibility of positioning (i.e 2 subs), I really don't think a DD-18 can top that!

Best thing I can suggest is going to AV-Sales for a demo, or even better getting someone on the forums to give you a demo of their own system

cheers
Matt

 

[Dynaudio Desire]

Ive heard all the Velos in the DD range, and can say they are very good but you have to certinaly pay for the privelage. However if you can afford them then they would be IMO the best option to take. If I was in your shoes I would opt for the DD18.

Extra information: On the demo (smallish room) I found that up to the DD15 the bass was great but the DD18 didn't sound as great as that of the DD15. Don't know why. Maybe a bit overkill for all I know. But in your large room and from the previous owning of a HGS-18 it would be a simple route to go for the DD18.

Or you could just get your HGS-18 repaired?

 

[Timbo21]

I haven't heard any Velodynes, or any of the other subs mentioned here. I've only heard my sub & a couple of others.

Can't really comment on the performance of any of those mentioned

Good luck

 

[Badger0-0]

Yet by itself that means nothing. Some of the older SVS's sound better in particular tuning modes, in my experience on the PB-12 Plus/2 the 20hz tuning sounded better than the 16hz. Equally on the PCU I had 16hz sounded better than 20....the point is, just because you CAN tune it to 10hz doesn't mean you should.



If you're referring to the SMS-1 or built-in EQ of the DD series then you're very much misguided if you think the BFD provides the same. It simply doesn't.

How, in your opinion, is the SMS-1 or the inbuilt DD EQ better than a BFD?

I take it the head to head posted in this forum, doesn't matter?
Bear in mind, it only won for ease, if indeed it won at all (I can't remember).

I'd suggest the BFD does it better, if you're willing to put the effort in

You didn't answer the point that the 13 will tune down to 10 hz.
Apparently the DD18 doesn't, from what I've seen, having had a nose.

No matter.
My guess is that 2 13s will walk all over a DD18 and I'll stand by my guess.

And what sounds better to you might be because of your room

I was asking your opinion, it's not a race