All road vehicles should have autonomous emergency braking

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by Stuart Wright, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    I think all road vehicles should have autonomous emergency braking. I can't find any stats on what percentage of accidents are rear end shunts, but I think it's a lot. These would be significantly reduced with AEB systems installed.
    Having driven a car with an AEB system for 9 months, it's kicked in a few times. Usually when the car in front is in the process of turning left or right and I'm not slowing down in anticipation of the road being clear. Sometimes because I haven't started braking soon enough.
    Never had it prevent an accident, but I'm confident that it would in most circumstances.
    What do you think?
     
  2. Foster

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  3. GrumpyOldGamer

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    Mines kicked in a few times unnecessarily and probably scared the poop out of the people behind me (and myself), still under warranty the cars going in for ACC recalibration in a couple of weeks, thank god it’s a warranty claim as it’s bloody expensive to do, it’s also jammed the brakes on at a crisp packet blowing past the front of the car.

    VW Accident assist nearly causing an accident
     
  4. IronGiant

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    You should probably be grateful it hasn't caused any yet :devil:

    By which I mean, if it's being over-zealous (you've said non of the incidents would have resulted in an accident without autonomous braking) then one of these days some human who isn't paying attention is going to run into the back of you because they weren't expecting you to brake. We're in that transition phase where smart cars are at the mercy of humans in other vehicles :)
     
  5. mjn

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    No thanks, i pay attention to the road in front.

    Remove that skill and people will rely on the autobraking to save them from crashing. If the system fails, the driver will blame the car.

    Slopey shoulders time.
     
  6. aVdub

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    Perhaps if people kept more of an eye on the car in front at junctions/roundabouts there wouldn't be a need for AEB.
    We are making things for some that cannot be bothered to use the things we were born with!
    I agree with @mjn on this one.
     
  7. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    I’m with @Stuart Wright on this one.

    Firstly those systems have reduced my car insurance significantly. I mean £136 fully comp on a 380Hp family hatchback is pretty awesome isn’t it? Or what about £276 for an fast and loud Mercedes-AMG suv.

    But more importantly I’ve had two interventions over the last four years where I am man enough to say that I could not have prevented it myself if the system didn’t kick in. My reaction time simply couldn’t deal with those particular situations.

    And then there is another benefit where the components make up the full package of automatic cruise control. I find it extremely useful in traffic james especially.

    I never buy the argument that it replaces your own thinking or alertness. It’s just a final stop, a safety guard. I’m sorry but that would be like saying I don’t need an altimeter and speed sensor on my parachute reserve as I should pay attention and pull my main one.
     
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  8. noiseboy72

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    Totally agree. I loved my Passatt and the AEB / ACC feature. It was one of the main reasons I got one TBH.

    I've also found that driving my non AEB equipped 2006 250BHP Z4, I now leave much larger gaps to the cars in front. This is because that's what the autonomous system did and I am quite sure my reactions are not quicker than it is.
     
  9. Trollslayer

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    Too often artificial intelligence etc. increase human sloppiness, sloppiness kills.
     
  10. dmpzsn

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    When I was looking for my next car, I thought about a Honda CRV, there were two versions available, one with driver aid pack and one without. After watching a youtube film on the dap I decided never in a million years. I take a very hard test every three years to keep my driving standards up and I'm damned if I'm going to let some automated machine make my decisions. Call me a Luddite but I love technology.
     
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  11. Trollslayer

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    I really would like driving to be a safe, efficient hands off experience but it is being missold.
     
  12. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    I think you are missing the point, it is a back stop, it isn't making your decisions at all, it is there for when you haven't made the decision or haven't made it quick enough. I would argue that with the way they've been setup currently (only got experience with VW and Mercedes-AMG) you need to leave it seriously late before you get an intervention.
     
  13. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    That sounds like a fault. I've had no such problem with my Hyundai. There is an audible beep and indication on the dash moments before it brakes.

    Not everyone pays due attention to the road in front. And people make mistakes. Otherwise there would be no rear end shunts.
    Have you ever tried not braking on purpose, relying on the AEB system to save you?
    I want to for a video, but damn it goes against every self preservation instinct.

    That's a very good point right there. And obviously the lower insurance is indicative of lower risk.
     
  14. Crafty

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    I agree with @mjn, no thanks.
     
  15. Trollslayer

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    I'll stay with my dumb car until smart cars are ready.
     
  16. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    So would you @mjn @Crafty @Trollslayer avoid any vehicle that has such system on it, and prefer to pay more in insurance? Your options are shrinking by the day. What I mean is that for a lot of cars with decent specifications it simply isn't possible to avoid it.
     
  17. dmpzsn

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    No, I don't think I'm missing the point. I think that people will rely more and more on these features and less on their own driving, which could lead to bigger accidents if the system fails, ala the automatic car that killed someone in yankland. It's like people rely on cruise control and then wonder why their car has plowed into the car in front as they were relying on the car to do the driving. The driver is responsible for the car and the way it's driven, not the other way around.
     
  18. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    The car that was doing a road test and where the test pilot clearly wasn't in control. That car you are referring to? Sure, people are stupid. Just imagine how stupid they are without assistive technologies, we had accidents before that came in.

    Anyway, Insurance companies are there to make money not loose it. The actuaries within such companies would clearly have modelled the risks involved and demonstratively choose in favour by reducing insurance premiums for vehicles fitted with such systems.
     
  19. dmpzsn

    dmpzsn
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    Yes that is the accident I was referring to, and if it can happen on a test when the driver should be 100% awake what could happen on a long motorway journey with the driver paying no attention at all.

    My car has parking sensors, and in the snow in April the front of the car was iced up, the sensors went mad and I had to keep clearing the snow off, what would happen to the cameras and other sensors in those weather conditions.
     
  20. Trollslayer

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    A very - no, extremely - important point.
    As technology continues to encroach we become more dependant on it.
     
  21. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    1. So there is negligence on behalf of the driver, what makes you think that such a driver wouldn't do that if it didn't have technology aids? Idiots will be idiots.
    2. First of all you should have cleared the car ;) But if you don't and want to let nature do it thing and drop it off over time then why not press the button to disable the sensors if they annoy you? It is what I do ;)
     
  22. dmpzsn

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    Yes there was negligence on behalf of the driver, but if you were relying on the system as he obviously was and there is a fault then you won't notice it. Idiots will be idiots, but even driving a car like this you still need your wits about you and not rely entirely on the car to do its thing.

    I couldn't clear the car as it was a heavy snow storm and I was trying to drive uphill on a layer of snow and couldn't stop the car otherwise I would have been stuck and it took all my concentration.
     
  23. IronGiant

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    If you can turn it off, I doubt the actuaries are basing their insurance quotes on the feature, but perhaps other aspects of car safety/fixability?
     
  24. Trollslayer

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    Including the cost of repairs after an accident, the sensors alone must cost a lot.
     
  25. mjn

    mjn
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    Seems like a nice split of opinions.

    At £900 / year for insurance, i already pay more than most.

    My car has no lane departure warning, AEB, active cruise control, auto parking, crash collision system, powered steering, etc.

    Already got my eye on a weekend car to go with my daily driver. It will have the same lack of “features”.

    Somebody mentioned power steering, servo braking, etc somewhere, maybe a different thread, but they’re different. Without power steering, not many people could turn the wheel in a big heavy modern car, but you still gotta turn the wheel. The car doesn’t do it for you. The same with the brakes.

    Maybe people should aim for higher standards, whether it is driving, hobbies, sports, qualifications, etc. Rather than just settling for “that’ll do” or “somebody will take care of that”

    I dunno. I’m different, i like to be as good as i can be, no matter what i set my mind to. I like doing things, rather than let other people do them. I’ve trained in martial arts for 30 years, maybe i’m just more disciplined in life and have different goals.

    :)
     
  26. Trollslayer

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    My car is a Peugeot 308 manual 112bhp, nice and straightforward although it does have some clever features e.g. one time I had to slam on the brakes and the emergency braking cut in plus the hazards came on so the driver behind me stood a better chance of stopping in time (they were far enough back anyway).
    A good balance.
     
  27. EarthRod

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    As a front seat passenger how many times have you tried to put your right foot through the car floor because the driver sitting next to you has slower reaction than you?

    Same applied to automatic emergency breaking system - it has a faster reaction time.
     
  28. mjn

    mjn
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    Never........i always close my eyes as a passenger!
     
  29. Trollslayer

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    The response time is fine, it is a matter of braking when need and not when not needed reliably.
    Given Teslas go into the back of stationary police cars there is a way to go.
     
  30. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    You say it like a badge of honour, I think it is a lot of money and basically two extra tyres per year :)

    Power steering is a good example I think, lack of power steering doesn't have to be heavy at all if you know how to drive it. You can get the mechanics and physics to work with you. That doesn't mean that when you do have it that we all forget to turn the wheel.

    But granted, I'm sure there are a fair few people who don't know what to do in a car without power steering, but come on which ordinary person would want one? You are talking edge cases there for a few enthusiasts like you and I :)

    I like higher standards as well, and having luxury and aids in a vehicle most definitely contribute to that. Heck I could whistle a tune, but that will never be the same as listening to a Burmester in car setup blasting our Catfish and the Bottlemen, or sometimes even better switching it off and listening to the harmony of cylinders and dual turbo's whistling....
     

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