All in one systems with power

gasolin

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I have the yamaha A-S301 amp and it sounds sokay with my Mission LX 3 MK II but it gets brighter not just loud when i turn the volume to above loud and lacking bass (took me more than 30 days top realize that).

Tried for fun my nad C 717 wooow theres the bass, than a nad 3020 i and later a nad 304, unfortunally both has hum from the transformer

My yamaha is for sale as well as the nad amps

So what am i using now, im using my nad c 717(have had it for many years), it's has good bass, don't get bright when i turn the volume up, no hum, radio and a dvd/cd player,only one input for a different source but i have a source selector of good quality and an external phonostage, the dvd/cd drive is a little slow when i want to open/close it but works normal when it's playing without to much noise, vevenb when it's rated at 20/30 watt in 6 ohm (class d) it's pretty okay loud

Can you have not enought power ? Yes

Can you have to much power within a reasonable limit, let's say 2x100 watt in 8 ohm for my speakers ? NO you just don't have to use all of it's power to play loud and when you do theres more than enough

While using my nad dvd system i looked at mini all in one systems, just to get an idea of what there is i 2022 besides the highly regarded Denon RCD-M41 (when is Denon gonna relase a new Denon RCD M41 ?).

There isn't much unless you want to spend more than twice the price of the Denon RCD-M41 or more.

What concerns me is most mini amps has something like 20 watt at 1khz with 10% thd in 6 ohm, even 30 watt in 6 ohm is pretty high for a low budget all in one hifi system

Why doesn't low budget all in one hifi systems have more than more power than 20-30 watt in 6 ohm at 1 khz and 10 % thd, you can get 2x800 watt rated pa amps for under 300 euros, with low sensitivity spakers like the Dali spektor 1 (rated at 83 db) you won't be able to play louder than background music in a big room with that kind of power if you want the dynamic peaks to be 100% clean.

Second question, i thought playing loud nearfield and at high levels the highs getting to much in your face, bright instead of loud, was do to the speakers, that it's nearfield and it's loud, wrong, most amdp do that but not alot of nad amps, they just gets loud and at the same time can play bass, not this think bass that needs some oomph,kick
 
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Powernode 2i, perhaps. I wouldn’t buy the Denon your are mentions. THD is too high. Why not get the Denon PM800 NE, then the source you prefer?

I know the budget may be too much, but in the end it could be wise. Power doesn’t necessarily mean better bass and so. Better depth, width. However 70 watts is more then enough for most people.
 
I think you put too much stock in power ratings. Yes, the Denon are not the right way to go. But the PMA800NE might.

More power does give you more depth, width but you’d be surprised what an amplifier with 70 watts can do. It depends on the power supply.

More power does not equal more bass, more precise perhaps. I would check out the hifi systems you have in the local area, then see.

Or buy used Yamaha AS501. I’ve heard rumors Yamaha are releasing new amplifiers next year.
 
Now expect on PA speakers, but I believe the reason is simply because the audience needs to hear the music...

More sensitivity, louder sound. So I don’t understand your question abut PA speakers, hopefully other do.
 
Are you claiming 800 watts amplifier can’t drive 83 dB speaker? Again I don’t understand.

Proac speakers with 2 ohm, certainly need a lot of power! I believe you need to change one component at time, otherwise you’ll end up in never ending circle.
 
I guess the power ratings for small mini fi system is costs. In your case Class D, like Beringer could be wise.
 
There are some great deals on the Cyrus One Cast at the mo.

 
Im saying it's possible to get a 2x800 watt rated in 8 ohm pa amp for less than 300 euros (less than the Denon RCD-M41), theres pleanty of power but for most people with low sensitive speakers like the Dali Spektor 1, it's not enough for a medium sized room to play loud if you have the Denon RCD -M41, for nearfiled it might just okay but still not loud

Why doesn't mini systems have more power than they do, they sound good but just don't have enought juice for low sensitive speakers like the Dali spektor 1, which people often buy for a mini system.

I really like my nad amps even the c 717, since it hum free, has good bass,sounds good and is fairly loud, nad amps is one of those few amps that just get's louder if you turn the volume up, not like most amp that before they reach the limit,max power is starting to get brighter instead of just getting louder

Why can't they make amps that don't get brighter (instead of louder) when you wanna play loud (within the amps limit)

The yamaha 501 don't to me looks like an amp that sounds better than my 301, just more power

What i experienced with my nad amps is that most amps including my yamaha A-S301, get's brighter (not just louder) when you want to play loud and it simply don't have thew good bass most nad amps have, it's light and thin on my yamaha, it needs more weight and made my mission LX 3 MK II lack bass, even when i use the tone controls it just don't sound right, it's range is also only at 100hz like more or less most older nad has a range of 50hz but doesn't need to be adjusted in the bass because it's already that good

Denon PMA-800NE is eol end of live, it's discontinued, i can get a new Denon PMA-600NE but is close to what a audiolab 6000a costs today
 
People which own Denon mini hifi system with Dali speakers might enjoy the sound anyway. Making good meal and so on. Just back ground music etc.

My opinion is the Denon amplifiers has too much THD, but it might work for others anyway. Near field or not. Perhaps they don’t have the volume any louder then what the amplifier can handle.

Then why not keep the NAD? It certainly seems like you are enjoying the sound. I do not under brighter vs louder. Of course the amplifier we’ll be under a lot strain if you have the volume too loud.

This might be what you mean. Me personally I just enjoy the music, if it is too loud, I turn the volume down. I sincerely believe you need get an amplifier you enjoy. The only way to accomplish this, is to hear what the other members are suggesting. It’s your call in then, of course.

And in your case, I believe NAD C 700 might be perfect with your speakers. Now before you claim this amplifier is not for me, then why do you keep adding new treads each few weeks, then don’t listen to us.

Oh, the new Rega Brio amplifiers might be wise to buy. Again, buy an amplifier you like, whether it is 40 watts or 800 watts. I simply do not know any more. Conclusion: Most likely you need to raise the budget for the sound you want, probably.
 
My initial post was about small compact mini systems, why they don't have so much power, for not alot of money you can get several 100 watt if power is want you want.

I do have big speakers which don't correlate with a compact all in one system, i looked at compact all in one systems since my nad does it really good and wnbatee to know what you can get in 2022 for not alot of money, realized that if you wanted power (i prefer a real volume knob not just buttons for the volume) it's no less than twice the price of the highly rewarded denon RCD -M41 where a brand yamaha really isn't that much different or better

Yamaha CRX-B370D same low power 2x 20 Watt (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 10% THD)

The problem with these amps are when you don't use it neafirled and want's to play loud with normal sensistive speakers

I consider for a low budget all in on system 50-60 watt peak in 4 ohm to alot, i can't expect a low budget system to have 50-60 watt in 4 ohm 20-20khz 1% thd but that power would be perfect for most all in one systems that don't cost more than an entry level cd player like a Yamaha CD-S303

I kind of like there compact design , that you get most of what you need in a compact design

Since may i have only made 3threads before that it was a month earlier since i made a post (4 post in almost 2 month).

rega brio r i remember is a little bright which i don't want, there for i also asked about why many amps get brighter than just getting louder when you want to play loud, a thread was made on whathifi about the rega brio having hum and that is for shure something i don't want i already (unfortunally) have amps with hum



I tried my nad c 717 and it sounds really good and wanted to go the nad way, 3020i,304 from that area 25-30 years ago is one of the nad amps to go for if you want something good, they sound good but have hum :(
 
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Yes, also read Rega have hum issues. I cant speak for every amplifier. I as heck don’t want hum!

Are you talking about Class D amplifier like Beringer? You can get a lot of watts with this amplifiers. However audiohoiics says Beringer don’t have real watts. I believe.
 
The rega brio is also kind of expensive what's equal to €900 + where i live

Makes more sense to buy a new audiolab 6000 a
 
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I thought i looked at the Denon pma, they lack some dynamic and bass, overall theres to much cons

 
Apparently the PMA800 is sough by many here on avforums, and I do believe you just have to plunge into the water.

There’s nothing I can advice you anymore, (clearly others too).

I see it’s the 600 in the video. By all means my amplifier is not perfect either, no such thing as the perfect amplifier.
And in near filed setup (if I my memory is correct) it should suffice with an amplifier around 60-80 watts. Even tube amplifier also. There are fairly cheap tube amplifiers on the market. So I don’t believe you need an amplifier with 200 watts.

If you need a lot of power then you need to look for used amplifiers with lot of power. Or buy new.
 
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Perhaps this one.
 
 
Not gonna buy such expensive amps for only a pair of mission LX 3 MK II
 

 
Crown way to expensive at gear4music Thomann Power Amps

£236 difference between the gear4music and thomann.de for the xli 800

Emotiva way to expensive to buy in uk , since uk isn't a part of europe anymore

I can't find a Emotiva BasX A2 in europe

 
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Atm im using my Yamaha A-S301 again to experince (again) after having used something else, how it sounds, i would like more full bodied sound, basically more bass without having to use an eq/tome controls, wich in my case is only 100hz and slightly less highs at high levels, the balance would be better if there was more bass

Like when your cooking and adding just one ingredients, more salt,garlic,chilli,sugar or lemon juice, you can add what makes the balance better, some times it's just a little salt and it can makes a huge difference.

I can hear the difference in power, not so much the bass, just more "cleaner" power
 
Bass is dictated by the speakers and the room. The LX3's are specified at 45hz f3 and 40hz f6 so roll off pretty quickly. Pretty much all power amps will play flat (within their operating windows) to 10hz and then roll off slightly.

Do you want more of the bass you have or deeper bass? For the former you will need to add EQ, for the latter you will need different speakers. A power amp may give you more headroom and a higher damping factor which may make the bass more dynamic/controlled (i.e. start and stop sounds quicker, less decay or distortion) but will not change the fundamental characteristics of the speakers (defined by the woofer TS parameters, the box size/stuffing and the port tuning) in terms of how deep they will go or how loud the sub 100hz region is.

One way to add a bit of bass is to move the speakers closer to the wall behind them and also into the corners generating some room gain but this may have a detrimetal effect on soundstage and the upper bass/lower mid. Maybe worth an experiment with speaker position.

This doesn't help much but may give you some explanation as to what you are hearing.
 
I do have more bass using nad amps, regardless of having a flat response or not, they just have more bass, they also don't get as bright when asked to play loud as many mordern similar powered amps.

I do notice a little more power from my yamaha amp, it just lacks a little bass compared to nad and are slighty tilted in the highs, that x2 makes the sound a little bright.

You know if there to much highs you don't want to little bass and if the bass is lacking you don't want to much highs

Cervin wega you don't ask for more high, right ? 😉

Eq isn't an option since it can't adjust the sound from my turntable, cdplayer, pc or tape deck as fare as i know.

Tone controls is as already mentioned 100hz which isn't as good as 50hz some nad amps are rated at.

I do like a god bass and have thought about a used nad c320bee, i just have seen the amp needing repairs even they are not super old.

Atm audiolab 6000a is for sale at a very good price (new) if i can sell some of my amps i wouldn't mind buying one


I do have 2 older nad amps, unfortunally they both have more hum then i can handle, those 2 amps have great and fantastic bass.

Most moderne amps are to bright for my taste (using pure, direct mode for the best sound) and lacks punch in the bass like in the Denon pma-600ne youtube video i have posted. Older nad amps seems to be much better but often requires repairs do to there age.
 
A lot depends on your listening case as to what is appropriate. I just added a Q Acoustics M20 all in one to my desktop. Both speakers are within a meter of my head. The sound at even low volumes has great presence and it can go way louder than I would find comfortable. Bass is more than adequate in my usage case. If I was using it as a listening solution to fill a whole room i'd probably only consider it for a smallish room and probably would add a small active subwoofer.
 
May ask what recordings you listen to? I don’t know if you know this..

But the best DSTOM by Floyd you we’ll ever find is either the first CP35 cd pressing or the MFSL cd version.

Difference between this two masters/mix is the CP35 sounds more balanced whereas the MFSL almost has “subwoofer” bass.

If listen to I Am Child by Neil Young, Rust live version. It sounds quite thin, to be honest. Why, simply because it is just acoustic guitar, harmonica. Probably more warmth with subwoofer, of course.

If I listen to On The Losing End there is deep bass line trough the whole song, then my setup sounds punchy dynamic.

@Ugg10 has mentioned, I believe. If you can have the speakers further apart you may get more bass. I notice this with speakers, but I don’t enjoy the sound then. Because you basically get hole between the speakers.

Yes, I figured the amplifiers I mentioned would be too expensive for you. Me too, but sometimes you need to save up some money. Instead of going in circles get the correct speakers, amplifier. And to degree good dac. If you want warmth then Texas Dac is excellent. If you want more crispy sound, then I would chose Sabre Dac,

Ps, it is not my intention to be rude when it comes to saving up some money for new amplifier etc. Just trying to help.
 
There are used Marantz PM7200 on the market. I believe you well like this amplifier.

It is one of the warmest Marantz amplifiers you well find, before they changed their voicing with the PM11 series. This trickled down to more cheaper version also.

Not that Marantz amplifier usually sounds laidback/warm they are more neutral now.

Arcam A80 is quite warm sounding too. It has very little gain in the volume control though. Which is annoying. I prefer analog pot meters vs digital ones.
 

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