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All in one system for very large room, possibly Denon

burrenyoga

Standard Member
Hi,
I am looking for a music system for a large room that is 11 metres x 7 metres (3 metres high) and that can drive at least 6 speakers.

There may be between 10 and 25 people spread out in the room, and I would like clear good quality audio to reach all parts of the room.

I recently bought a Denon Ceol RCDN10 for a smaller room (with just 2 speakers) and was very impressed by the quality of the sound and also the ability to play music from either a CD, internet radio station or MP3 memory stick and would like similar functionality. It also has Airplay 2, bluetooth and HEOS.

So ideally I am looking for a similar type of all in 1 sound system for this larger room, capable of driving at least 6 speakers to distribute the sound well around the room… speakers probably positioned high up on the walls.

Can anyone recommend a system that could deliver this?

Is there some similar Denon system that could drive 6 speakers?

Thanks in advance,
Dave
 

Onlythesound

Well-known Member
I guess the obvious answer minus the cd tray, would be a Denon AVR system with HEOS Etc. and the ability to drive large numbers of speakers but that doesn’t look like the kind of route you want to go down. And of course you’d want to add some sort of disc player. I used to run a rcd n-9 with some Q Acoustics Concept 20 speakers and always thought it did very well. Now, I have a Denon DRA 800-h receiver/amp/streamer/all-in-one which can drive four speakers and 2 subs. No disc player built in though so I bought a Sony blu-Ray player to give me options.
I haven’t had a chance to drive maximum numbers of speakers and subs yet as currently moving house but I intend to source a power amp which I can connect to the pre-out on the Denon so I can make it very versatile by driving another set of speakers in a separate room .
I’m rambling so apologies but it’s something you might want to consider at £499 when I last checked.

David
 

password1

Distinguished Member
As far as Im aware there are no stereo or all on one units that can drive 6 speakers.

I think the easiest way is to use a decent AVR and play the music in 'extended stereo' mode. In large room with lots of people and background noise, the bass will be drowned out. Floorstanders or larger bookshelves with a sub or two will work better than small bookshelves.
 

larkone

Distinguished Member
You can get six ( and eight) channel amps but you would need to provide a front end to accept all of your input devices. Exactly what amp you could get would depend on which country you are in.
 

burrenyoga

Standard Member
Hi All,
Thank you for your suggestions.

90% of the time the music will be reasonably low volume but occasionally it will need to be loud enough to be considered party volume.

Budget is about €900 or thereabouts.

It would be good to be able to also hook it up to a HD Display to watch DVDs.

It sounds like I should consider an AVR system, and plug in an external CD player… and this should provide all the options.

Any advice on what DVD player to consider?

The AVR-X3600H seems to get very good reviews.

Or possibly it might be worth considering AVC-X3700H

Any advice appreciated.

Best Wishes,
Dave
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
If you have a dvd or blueray player then you do not need a CD player, they will play then no problem, same goes for Xbox and PlayStation iirc.
 

Onlythesound

Well-known Member
I bought a Sony UBP X800m2 Blu-ray player. It gives me great cd sound as well as Blu-Ray (dvd too naturally) . Connectivity to all things internet is very comprehensive and it also does high quality 2-way Bluetooth. Maybe worth an upgrade?
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Hi All,
Thank you for your suggestions.

90% of the time the music will be reasonably low volume but occasionally it will need to be loud enough to be considered party volume.

Budget is about €900 or thereabouts.

It would be good to be able to also hook it up to a HD Display to watch DVDs.

It sounds like I should consider an AVR system, and plug in an external CD player… and this should provide all the options.

Any advice on what DVD player to consider?

The AVR-X3600H seems to get very good reviews.

Or possibly it might be worth considering AVC-X3700H

Any advice appreciated.

Best Wishes,
Dave

I’m assuming you want the same stereo sound for three pairs of speakers spread about the room?

Is that right?

If so an av amp cannot do that.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
You will have a hard time driving 6 speakers with a Stereo Amp. Likely you will need Two or Three Stereo Amps, and to do that they will most likely have to be in a Pre-Amp/Power-Amp configuration.

How much money do you have to spend on this project, and where will the Amp and Source Devices be placed in the room? And by Placed in the Room, I mean on the end, at the side, in the corner, in a closet, other?

You could combine a good Pre-Amp with Three PA/Studio Style Power Amps, this would give you the most system for a reasonable amount of money. Though rather that PA/Studio Amps, you could simply use more expensive Stereo Power Amps. But that decision is down to budget.

Depending on the speakers, a single Power Amp can typically handle FOUR Speakers (2 pair) assuming they are 8 ohm speakers and a decent Power Amp.

Do you want all the Speakers to be the same size? For example, you could have a main system at one end of the room with larger speakers, then FOUR (or 2) Additional Smaller Speakers along the walls to fill out the sound.

Your room - 11 meters x 7 meters - 36ft x 23ft - is relatively large, but my room, actually open floor-plan, is 16ft x 35ft, an my pair of speakers have no trouble filling that space. Though there typically are not 25 people in the room.

My inclination is to suggest you make something of a small stage on one end with the Main Speakers and the Main Amp. Mostly just to get the speaker up a bit higher. A 4"/100mm stage would be enough. Also, being on a slight stage defines this area for the Stereo, and would keep people way. You don't want people setting drinks on your nice wooden speakers, as an example.

Get some good reasonably big speakers, and see how that goes. If you buy an amp that is made up of a Pre-Amp/Power-Amp, then if you need to add an additional Amp and Speakers what will not be a problem. Or a nice Integrated Amp that has Pre-Amp Outputs, so that again, another Power-Amp could be added.

I suspect, FOUR speaker, TWO Main, and TWO - let's call them Satellite Speakers - would be enough. Generally you will find that the people who are into the music will be close to the Main Speakers, but those who want conversation tend to move away from the Speakers.

So, you need to consider if you want Zones in the Room, that is, as described above, Conversation Zone, and Music Listening/Dance Zones.

One advantage to more speakers is that you can more easily fill a room at lower volume, so that might be an advantage, people could still hear the music, but could still hold conversation without having to shout.

But right now, I'm concerned about your working budget. If you have plenty of money, then we can certainly come up with high quality options, and if your money is a bit less, we can still accommodate that. And if your money is a bit short, then we might want to rethink the whole approach to the project.

But none of that means anything until we know how much MONEY you have to spend?

I suspect at just about any sensible budget we can come up with something.

Also, what will you need for sources - CD? Network Streaming? Turntable? Will you need to connect the system to a TV? Other?

I typically sit at my computer about 7.6m (25ft) from my speakers, and have no trouble hearing them. The Speakers are 2x8" Each. These speakers (2x200mm) today are considered big speakers.

So, my point is likely TWO Speakers (1xpair) is enough, and Four (2xFloor, 2xBookshelf) would likely be more than enough. However, I'm inclined to think SIX is vast overkill and it adds a level of complication to the system.

Thoughts?

Steve/bluewizard
 
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mseve1

Active Member
I recently bought a Denon Ceol RCDN10 for a smaller room (with just 2 speakers) and was very impressed by the quality of the sound and also the ability to play music from either a CD, internet radio station or MP3 memory stick and would like similar functionality. It also has Airplay 2, bluetooth and HEOS.
Given that you like the CEOL RCD N10 and your budget it is very limited you could always get another 2 or 3 of these units (plus speakers) and operate them as a group under HEOS. Not particularly elegant - and might be a pain to operate - but relatively cheap.
 
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Onlythesound

Well-known Member
I agree with @mseve1 ...or a few Denon Home devices dotted around and by all accounts, easy on your spaces. They are relatively expensive though. Also, another thought: if the RCD N10 has AirPlay, there are other relatively respectable devices around which can work on Airplay e.g. Apple’s own HomePod or the Audiopro range of wireless speakers.
 

burrenyoga

Standard Member
Thanks again for your suggestions and comments.


@Paul7777x
Yes…. Same stereo sound from the 6 speakers… so I guess that is referred to as 3 channels of stereo?

My understanding is that this can be provided by either AVR-X3600H or AVC-X3700H.

Paul, why do you say this can’t be provided by an AV amp?

When you say AV Amp… are you referring to something different that the two AVR systems above?



@BlueWizard
Yes… I think it can be provided as you say and called ‘all channel stereo’

Surely either of the two AVR systems I mentioned could drive 6 speakers?


The room is 7m x 11m. Sound system will be at one end of the room…. But located near one corner of the 7m wall rather than in the centre of it. Surely it does not matter the exact location of the system... and just try to have equal length of spear cable to each speaker?

Because the volume will be typically low… I don’t want a loud sound from 4 speakers in order to carry to all parts of the room. I thought that lower volume through 6 speakers would give a more even spread of sound at lower volume?

AIso I would like the sound volume to be reasonably equal in most parts of the room, I assume it would be best to have 6 same size speakers?

I plan to mount each speaker from the wall at height approx. 2.5 metres from the floor.

If I have 4 speakers close to 4 corners of the room, and 2 speakers half way on the 11m wall, surely it does not matter where the sound system itself is located?

I want reasonably equal sound through the room… and not better sound at the front and less at the rear.

When I said approx. €900 I meant for the AVR system. The speakers could be extra. Both system I mentioned above can be bought under €1,000 I believe.


@RBZ5416

Is €900 too low for an AVR unit to drive 6 speakers?


@All
Do you believe that the systems I suggested (AVR-X3600H or AVC-X3700H) could drive 6 equal speakers to distribute the sound reasonably equally around this size room?

Thanks in advance,
Dave
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Do you believe that the systems I suggested (AVR-X3600H or AVC-X3700H) could drive 6 equal speakers to distribute the sound reasonably equally around this size room?
Selecting All Channel Stereo will use all speakers that are in the layout. If you had six speakers in a set up where you have front left and right, surrounds and rear surrounds and a sub woofer, ie, a 6.1.0 (no centre) then all the left hand side speakers would carry the left channel and the right side that channel. That can be achieved in a Denon X3600.

It won't sound that great because Denons as a whole are poor at stereo music. I speak as a Denon owner and never use it for stereo music even with just two channels being driven.
 

RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
Not sure I'd use an AVR for this as you'll be paying for lots of features you won't use. You could do it with stereo amplification by wiring lowish impedance speakers in series. 3 x 4 ohm speakers per channel would be 12 ohm total, so you'll need decent power to drive it. I'd have a look at the pro audio market rather than AV. The likes of Crown & Behringer do high wattage power amps for little money.

But as the room is large rather than huge, I'd suspect that you could get away with 4 speakers but not in corners. Perhaps around 3 metres in from either end.

Also give some consideration to making this a mono system if people will be milling around rather than sat facing one direction.

Maybe one for @noiseboy72 to chip in.
 
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BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Thanks again for your suggestions and comments.

@BlueWizard
Yes… I think it can be provided as you say and called ‘all channel stereo’

Surely either of the two AVR systems I mentioned could drive 6 speakers?

Perhaps an AVR is the best solution in your situation, and with £1000 to spend on the Amp, it might be the best choice. Plus there is a added degree of versatility with an AVR.

The room is 7m x 11m. Sound system will be at one end of the room…. But located near one corner of the 7m wall rather than in the centre of it. Surely it does not matter the exact location of the system... and just try to have equal length of spear cable to each speaker?

The location can matter depending on how the final system is configured. If you want to watch video on this system, the 6 speakers along the sides are not going to work well. I envisioned, two larger speakers at the Front with the equipment and potentially a TV, and then two smaller speakers at the sides mounted on the wall. So, it this configuration, where the System and the Front Speakers are does matter.

Because the volume will be typically low… I don’t want a loud sound from 4 speakers in order to carry to all parts of the room. I thought that lower volume through 6 speakers would give a more even spread of sound at lower volume?

It would give more even sound, but it is really necessary. I think 4 speakers would be more than enough, but when I said and say that, I was thinking of Stereo. With an AVR and the potential to watch movies, then 6 speakers is probably more ideal, but they have to be placed as I prevously described - Larger Speakers in front potentially with a Subwoofer, then smaller speakers at the side and rear.

AIso I would like the sound volume to be reasonably equal in most parts of the room, I assume it would be best to have 6 same size speakers?

It is OK to want that, but the question is what will it take to accomplish it? Like I said, in a similar but slightly narrower room, I am able to do it with TWO speakers. So, if you choose Stereo, most likely FOUR speakers would fill the room nicely. Though with an AV Receiver, most likely 6 is the best choice, but that would not be for filling the room, it would be more for proper presentation of Movie Sound.

I plan to mount each speaker from the wall at height approx. 2.5 metres from the floor.

I think for proper Stereo or Surround, you want Main speakers on the floor in front, and then Satellite Speakers along the side. Perhaps I am misreading, but I'm getting some sense that you might be implying 6 speakers along the sides.

Again, this is one of the reasons that the equipment/front speaker location in the room matters. It has to be placed so you get proper imaging from both Stereo Music, and from Surround Sound.

If I have 4 speakers close to 4 corners of the room, and 2 speakers half way on the 11m wall, surely it does not matter where the sound system itself is located?

This can be done, but I think less than ideal. But it is workable. To some extent where things can be placed will depend on things like Door, Windows, Fireplaced, and the general layout of the furniture.

I want reasonably equal sound through the room… and not better sound at the front and less at the rear.

I think you might be over estimating the size of the room and the capability of speakers. I have a room that is 35ft long (10.7m), I typically sit 25ft (7.6m) from the speakers, and a single pair of large (2x8") speakers has no trouble filling that space, though my space is only 16ft wide (4.9m). And this is at somewhat modest casual listening levels.

You have to take a System approach were every decision effect every other aspect of the system, sometimes in small ways, sometimes in large ways. As I said, with a AVR used at times as a Surround Sound System, likely 6 speaker is a good choice. But I have no doubt that if you pick a Stereo System, four speaker would be more than enough to fill that room uniformly.

When I said approx. €900 I meant for the AVR system. The speakers could be extra. Both system I mentioned above can be bought under €1,000 I believe.

I'm thinking you will need at least £1000 for 6 speakers in a Surround system, and potentially another £300 to £500 if you want a Subwoofer.

However, more likely you will be in the roughly £2000 to £2500 range depending on what we decide for the final configuration.

So, in very generalized numbers, I'm thinking £2000 to £3500 for the final system.

But I am inclined to ask more about the room. In my head I'm picturing a very sparse small ball room rather than a lounge, that is, a room more dedicated to entertaining than a general lounge. Of course I could be wrong, but that's the vision that pops into my head.

However, if this is more like a lounge or second lounge in your house, how else will the room be used? Will you really be watching Movies in this room with any regularity? Again this matters relative to the placement of the equipment in the room. If you plan to actually watch movies, then it has to be setup to accommodate that. It has to be somewhat symmetrical including the Video Screen. But if this is a room dedicated purely toward more Party Entertainment, then perhaps there is room for compromise.

For example, for Party Entertainment, you want the speakers spread more evenly in the room. However, for actually Movie watching, you want the speakers placed relative to the Prime Seating location. They call it Surround Sound because you are surrounded by sound, which means the speakers surround the Prime Seating location, which is different than the more even distribution for a Party Room.

Even for combined Movie/Music system, likely two side speakers would work. Though in saying two side speakers, what I'm really saying is a 5.0 or 5.1 Movie system. With four speaker, two on each side, we are talking more of a 7.0 or 7.1 Movie system. But again, those speaker would surround the Prime Seating Area and not necessarily encompass the entire room.

However, for primarily Music listening and Parties, Four (2xpair) Stereo Speakers would be more than enough.

So, there are some subtle details that matter in the final choices.

Steve/bluewizard
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Those Denons aren't the only units that can stereo on rear channels.

My pioneer vsx920 can send stereo to the rear channels.

i have a 9.1 set up and all the rears can be sent stereo to replicate the front.
 

burrenyoga

Standard Member
Listening to your questions and suggestions, I have realized that I should have given a much clearer description of the room, and all the purposes that the sound system may be used for.

The room is a yoga room which will be mainly used for yoga. Occasionally it may be used for a party or sometimes to view a movie.

The room will be very bare, with timber floors, no furniture other than a simple cabinet to house the AVR and huge amounts of glass windows on 2 walls, another large window on a 3rd wall, and a block wall at the rear.

90% of the time, it will be used for relatively quiet music with approx. 20 people spread evenly around the room practicing yoga. I am only guessing that stereo music would sound better than mono for this.

As it may be sometimes used to watch DVDs, it sounds best to plan for an AVR, and to wire the room for 6 speakers (possibly 8 ohm each) + sub woofer speaker instead of 4 speakers + sub.

I have drawn possible locations of the speakers, screen and AVR.

The room is being built now, so I want to install all the speaker cables, CAT6, conduit for HDMI etc.

As it will mainly be used to play low volume music, I guess good to put in the same 6 speakers mounted high on the wall?

One reason for mounting them high on the wall, is that we need every square foot of floor area without any objects in the way. And the windows are almost 3 metres high... so speakers will have to go above these.

And secondly, if we have a party, good to have the louder sound above body height so it won’t be obstructed.

And I am hoping that watching a movie with 6 same speakers should not be too bad?

Dave
 

password1

Distinguished Member
As its mainly used to play background music at low volumes, it doesn't need to be high up. The usual position for a movie setup would be better to sound the best when playing movies.

In a large room a centre would be best, as the room.is being built it would be easier nownthan later if you intend to channel all cables into/behind the walls.
 

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