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All-in-One Console?

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by eviljohn2, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Following from the end of the "50% off Gamecube" thread which went a bit off-topic.

    Discussion basically goes:

    XBox: Internet/gaming machine with home entertainment bonuses.

    PS2: Gaming/home entertainment machine with internet bonuses.

    GC: Effectively purely gaming (so needing DVD player/PVR/computer seperately).

    Where's the future headed?

    Obviously from members point of view we're biased towards seperates (and thus GC style consoles), but the general market will undoubtedly head towards "simpler" all-in-one solutions.
     
  2. Azrikam

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    Good idea for a new thread.

    My biggest issue with these all-in-one systems is proprietary hardware. If the next-gen PSs and XBoxen include DVD-burners, will these DVDs play on regular players? On a PC? How about on the competitors product? Will the PVRs allow you to hive data off onto a PC without losing any picture quality?

    Personally, I can deal with the pile of remotes on my desk (8 currently) because separates will nearly always be better than an all-in-one system.
     
  3. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    Terminal services into a middleware layer is what I would like to see :)

    You still have competition but the middleware would ensure standards could be kept. You would simply have a box in the home, which could stream anything you wanted, games, video, TV on demand all from different providers.

    Of course your model of terminal (VR, visual screen) would determine exactly what you could stream, so hardware manufacturers would all have to comply to the same standards, but would be able to add perks like a faster graphics processor, or enhanced sound.

    :) My idea of a future!
     
  4. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Well ir seems odd that sony havent bundled a PS2 into a DAV550 or similar!
    Why???? Possibley as they are made by different parts of sony! They selll enough of both so why bother!

    Same with all of these that why seperates will always have an advantage! DVD replay on PS2 was great for the DVD software market as it push the numbers of people with the hardware right up. but for anyone with a DVD player it was preety mute!

    Also how people have a PS2 connect to a 14" portable via the RF modulator! Quite afew even those with scart often use composite and nasty cables!

    So thats where this all in one system falls down!
     
  5. graham.myers

    graham.myers
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    Sony's new PSX console coming out in Japan however goes the all-in-one soution by incorporating a Satellite tuner, PVR and a 160Gb hard disk into the console.
     
  6. Wasabi

    Wasabi
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  7. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    The ideal would be a modular system with swapable inputs and outputs EG Choice of Gaming, DVD player, DVD burner, PVR or STB and dfferent ouputs EG YUV, XGA, RGB, S-Video. Allowing you to pick so many of each say 4 inputs and 2 outputs!


    **************************************************
    But this already exists!!!!
    Its called a PC
     
  8. Wasabi

    Wasabi
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    I doubt that the majority of consumers in the developed world can afford that high spec pc nor do they want a ugly box that is noisy next to their tv.

    Yes, you can buy zalman flowers to make it more quiet but again I doubt most people are technology minded.

    We have to wait until the pc makers comes out with small, really quiet boxes (like shuttle's) that contains all the stuff we talk about for a reasonable price e.g. below £500

    I think with Sony's PSX price of around £430 can definitely capitalize on the majority of the market who wants a simple and easy to use all-in-one box that contains most of the stuff, which they can add to their existing all-in-one HC box, making it a total of only 3 boxes (TV, PSX & HC box) and speakers, making it clean and uncluttered in their living rooms.

    Wasabi
     
  9. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Logical conclusion can surely only be one of 2 things then:

    Consoles become PC's

    or

    PC's become consoles.

    With all the added PVR's, DVD players etc being in both.

    Seperates certainly won't die but I think us "technological elite" will have to put up with duplicated machinery in the future. Much like DVD players being in everything these days I suppose (except my GC and PC!).
     
  10. betamac

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    I would always buy seperates over an all in one system without a doubt but theres definately people out there who would love the all in one solution, the question is, if someone has Sky + a DVD Player etc will they be willing to replace them with an all in one solution?

    I also think this could leave a great market for Nintendo if you have to spend £400 + to get a Microsoft or Sony console Nintendo could do excellant with a games only console for around the £150 mark or so

    People who dont want or already have the DVD player, TIVO etc will buy a GC2 for there gaming fix and people who do go for the all in one solution may get a GC2 to go along side it for variety?

    Its going to be very intersting
     
  11. Azrikam

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    True. I already know people who bought a Gamecube on the sole reason that they already own a DVD player. It sounds kinda strange in that context, but people generally don't want to pay for the same item more than once.

    Unless Sony and MS offer a stripped down games-only version of their next gen consoles (which I doubt), a lot of people will opt for the pure games alternative.
     
  12. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I've been doing some more thinking on this with regards to the "ideal" console:

    >High capacity media (may as well be DVD since vastly manufactured)
    >HD drive so no memory cards (maybe 1 flash slot or something), so may as well bew PVR
    >Multiplayer (several joypads, net access for loners).

    I suspect all consoles will follow this route in 1 form or another leading me to the conclusion that the choice we have available now is the best it's ever been, and will be. Hooray for all 3 consoles and the choice we've been given! :clap:

    I can feel thoroughly justified in owning my GC. :)
     
  13. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    Posting this in "AV Forums" is probably going to leave the argument a bit jaundiced, as most people here have h/c etc.

    However i'm not particularly interested in a complete thing like psx. I mean in 2 years time when the ps3 comes out, whos going to be interested in the psx??

    Unless they bring out a future-proofed console, in the mould of a pc which also includes an av receiver type thing capable of belting out more than the 110 watts per channel rms over 7 channels like my denon, i'll never be interested.

    [EDIT - No need for the word fanboy thanks!]
     
  14. betamac

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    Sony have stated the PS3 will also have TIVO like funtionality and a DVD Burner, so its not going to be just a Gaming console by the sounds of it, + alot of developers have expressed fear in the complexity of the PS3 and that is could take twice as long to develope a top game for it (thats not encouraging)

    [EDIT : No need to bring this into the argument thanks]
     
  15. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    If future proofing occurs, then we will all be in deep poo poo, as that would be the point of singularity and the end of the human race (As we know it).
     
  16. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    Guys,

    This is an interesting discussion, if I see one more mention of the word fanboy I will delete your comments from the thread. Betamac calm down, Games Guru was only being a little flippant it was not intended as an insult just a little jibe.
     
  17. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Interesting point there is a fatal flaw in the all in one though!
    the function allity of Sky+ is liscenced by sky and their encryption. No cam is available so Sony could not integrated Sky+ into a single unit! Canal+ could be but not Sky so then if you want sky you have to have an extra box so the one box is out the window.
     
  18. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Despite all of the flashy new digital amps which I'm very impressed with (I've got the Sony MZE-10 portable MD which is SOOOO small with SOOOOOOO much battery life!) I think it's probably a given that afficianados will need seperate transistor (or valve!) amplification. This could, however, be well hidden away within the "cupboard-under-the-stairs" or something.

    Looks like it's not just all-in-one consoles, but all-in-one houses being built as standard at this rate! Not just for those of us with the time/money/space/WAF to be able to contend with.
     
  19. betamac

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    Exactly so why would you pay £400 - £500 for an all in one solution when one of the major features (recording onto hard drive is useless if you have Sky + as you can only use your Sky + box for Sky.

    so the £500 investment is £700 if you want Sky + and your not getting your full moneys worth?
     
  20. Miyazaki

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    As with all things some people will buy it, some won't.

    I imagine the psx is aimed at 20 to 30 something professionals with spare cash, whereas pure gaming consoles will be aimed at the 8-12 year old market mostly, up to about 18 year olds. The kind of market with kids having consoles in their bedrooms. Which suits Sony & Microsoft as that is their target audience, and likewise with Nintendo's younger audience.

    None of these companies will take seriously the specifities of interest in h/c that people express in these forums, as it's not the larger market. Yes they will probably have prog scan etc, but i'm always interested in high-end stuff, not mid range stuff like psx or ps3 or xbox 2 will provide, although as many xbox games have proven the hard drive is very useful to allow larger gaming environments, quicker loading times over ps2, downloadable content, better quality internet gaming etc etc.

    I think the psx is a brave foray into the future home entertainment environment. Technology has always converged and it will continue to do so, and as is the law of nature so is the law of the free market, only the fittest survive :)
     
  21. betamac

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    i have to say i dont think age comes into the "all in one Console" atall you either want to have everything combined into 1 box or you dont,

    also you can either warrant £400 - £500 on a all in box (which if you have Sky + you wont fully use or you cant,

    Its all down to personal preference.

    I am 21 and i know alot of my mates would not have £500 to buy all in one system so they can play games thats for sure, so they would prob opt for a console only solution like me if they want a games machine
     
  22. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Betamac that is another good reason for Separates, you build it over a period of time. I started out like this and now have spent far more than i care to admit. Many people bought their system in one go ( HENCE DAV etc) but how many built it from a TV to VCR then got a Playatation>PS2 and hence DVD so bought surround sound and then separte DVD then a plasma or PJ with some speaker upgrades along the way??

    Quite a few i would guess
     
  23. Wasabi

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    I agree with Games Guru .

    We less than a promile of a percent is not the target market.
    Imagine the very small flats in Asia, PSX is a wonderful space saver for those who can't wait for next gen consoles but in the mean time they want to replace their vcr or get a bit more updated with their equipment.

    Also, sky is a phenomenon to UK, in e.g. Asia it hardly exists, the additional sky+ is not an argument, in Europe again it is much much smaller market, percentage wise compared with UK, so all-in-one manufacturers need not to worry. The U.S, even if they are in general a more technological minded market where products are much cheaper, there are enough potential buyers with money to burn for Sony to get a reasonable ROI (return on investment)

    Sky has 7million subscribers, how many will upgrade to Sky+?Even if Sky people don't buy PSX, I'm sure that even in UK there is enough professionals/white collar workers, for Sony to make enough money on their investment.

    Also we don't know how much Sony has invested in PSX, therefore we don't know how many units they need to sell to break even (maybe 1million is enough?) but analysts saying that their is probably around 12.5% margin excluding marketing costs (they estimate the cost to be 70000yen for the basic box and they sell it for 80000yen), which is very good for a consumer electronic. And compared to MSFT, it will not become a loss maker ;p

    PSX is definitely a strategic move by Sony to show consumers the near future and the box is showcase, and maybe doesn't count on a hoop of profits, but to show that Sony is still as innovative as ever, and give a taste of what PS3 will become.

    Wasabi,
     
  24. Azrikam

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    Good point. Have Sony even announced that the PSX would be released in the UK? Sky isn't about to help them without getting a huge chunk of £££ in return.
     
  25. hornydragon

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    Well dont expect the likes of DSG to stock a product with a gross margin of 12.5% even less so GAME etc or indepenants the shelf space the box occupies costs more than that!!! and 12.5% is crap for a consumer electronic item 20% is minimum 40% good!!!!
     
  26. Wasabi

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    This is a quote from the article link below "Credit Suisse's Ono estimated the cost of making a 160-gigabyte PSX at 70,000 yen, excluding promotion and marketing. The price would bring Sony "some profits,'' he said". Pioneer spokeswoman's initial thought that the price was very cheap compared to their's new dvd-recorder only that cost 140000yen.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/BUSINESS/10/07/sony.reut/

    I think somehow it must be including the margins for the retailers.

    Why I thought 12.5% sounded good is compared with e.g. auto industry, it is known that volume makers are happy if they get 4-5%, while successful makers get between 7-9% profit margin.

    Wasabi,
     
  27. Miyazaki

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    I'm saving my money for the psx 2, with a built in fridge, coffee maker and kitchen sink.
     
  28. betamac

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    High street shops like Dixons etc would want to make 40% + on the PSX so 12.5% is a very low margin, in the computer business we make between 10 - 20% but thats online and we all know the margins online are extremely reduced,

    They will want to make profit on the console though there wont be any mad price drops like the PS2 and other consoles as they are tapping into there Home Cinema market and they dont want to be selling at a loss atall
     
  29. Miyazaki

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    Sony are already making a loss in their home cinema/ hifi section, hence the psx. It's an attempt to lift flagging sales of their non playstation merchandice by packaging other things with a console.

    Profit is secondary to competition, so companies are always prepared to take losses if it means owning a monopoly or a heavy market share in the long run.
     
  30. Squiffy

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    Interesting factoid...

    A couple of years ago Pace were working with Sega and looking to incorporate a Dreamcast into their STBs.

    If the Dreamcast had survived, we might have seen a Dreamcast/Sky+ hybrid in our front rooms.
     

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