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Alis question

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by rudy, Oct 23, 2005.

  1. rudy

    rudy
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    I've been reading with interest about the horizontal line issue with the pv500(just don't call it a fault!) and I wondered if the Alis panels work in the same way, only vertically? If so, why don't alis screens have the same issues?
     
  2. MAW

    MAW
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    Alis has no parallels at all with the PV500 issues. What's interesting about the PV500 is that the PHD7 and PHD8, and all other PHD panels previously do not suffer this problem. Where did they go wrong, whatever induced them to make them work this way? Alis has it's own market tightly sewn up, budget HD. For the price of an LG, you can have something built in Japan. Never thought you'd hear me with a kind word for Hitachi did you? I still don't like them, but they are better built than the Koreans, and I'm having my doubts about build quality in the new Pioneers. We shall see.
     
  3. rudy

    rudy
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    Am i right in thinking the pv500 is basically the same screen/electronics as phd8?
     
  4. Sharpy14

    Sharpy14
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    MEDIC.................MEDIC......................We need a Medic here, MAW has almost grudgingly said something that whilst not positive, lacks a certain amount of negativity about Hitachis...........and even doubting Pioneers, what is the world coming to?

    Must tell everyone at the Hitachi thread, so they can print it out before it gets retracted and put down to being a bump on the head :thumbsup:
     
  5. camorra

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    In addition to what MAW said ALiS has been developed by 4 Japanese
    engineers from Fujitsu in 1997 and we've seen the first ALiS panel with
    its superior resolution in 1999. Many improvements over the years were
    implemented to enhance picture quality and enable prolonged lifetime,
    like the Teres plasma driving method. In 1999 Fujitsu sold 50% of its
    Fujitsu Displays Ltd to Hitachi and formed Fujitsu Hitachi Plasma Ltd.
    Last March Fujitsu sold another 30% of FHP shares to Hitachi again.
    In the same period Fujitsu sold also its LCD plants and technologies to
    Sharp :cool:

    There are no actual values of panel fault rates worldwide from countries
    across the globe, albeit Japan. FHP ALiS panels boast less than 0.01%
    of faulty panels in Japan, considerably less than any other manufacturer
    in that same country, making it one of the best built panel option in the
    world, and as MAW said built in Japan too. Quality levels are those expected
    from top world manufacturers as Hitachi and Fujitsu. I like to open up every new model when it enters shop and I must say it really shows up especially when compared to Korean manufacturers, not to mention Chinese crap!!
    :clap:

    Several other manufacturers opt for ALiS panels, like Sony, Philips, Hitachi,
    Fujitsu, Samsung, Yamaha and others :thumbsup:

    Regarding the new Pioneers I don't know but you can do a simple search
    on the internet.....but are they really "built" by Pioneer themselves??
    Though, I never questioned Pioneer quality, up to now. I just hope it
    remains the same!! :lease:

    Cheerz :hiya:
     
  6. stainway

    stainway
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    Hitachi (Fujian) produces high-definition plasma TV(Aug 20, 2005)
    Hitachi(Fujian) announced to start its production of high definition plasma TV and stop its VGA standard definition plasma.

    The company has made 60 million yuan of additional investment at the beginning of this year to move its plasma panel production to Fuzhou and to produce ALIS 1.05 million pixel high definition plasma TV.

    Consequently, a plasma thick-diaphragm components production line will be moved from Japan to Fuzhou and put into operation in the coming October.

    Do you know where is Fuzhou? :cool: In China

    http://china-outlook.com/marketflash/new.html

    Japanese giants Matsush*ta and Hitachi joined forces Monday in the plasma display business in a bid to cut costs as the technology created in Japan comes under intense pressure from South Korean manufacturers.

    Thats explains some of the post above:)
    http://www.spacedaily.com/2005/050207111427.ey07mqgg.html
     
  7. Sharpy14

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    Ermmmm......................I was only joking, does it really matter where they are made
     
  8. stainway

    stainway
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    For me does not :rolleyes:
     
  9. MAW

    MAW
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    I like to cause a stir from time to time! As it happens, the collaboration with Matsush*ta is likely to result in a new 'higher end' panel of progressive type, I'd put my money on true hi def too, though I have NO evidence for that, it would just 'make sense'. This will confirm ALIS technology as the 'budget' HD panel to compete with LG, Samsung etc head on on price, with TVs like the 6600. My comments about Pioneer specifically relate to the new 6 series, which feels very plastic, only time will tell. The MXE range is unaffected as yet. I have heard that Pioneer lost a shedload of cash last year on PDP production, and it was this that led to the NEC buyout. Now we have 2 power blocks in Japan, with the tie up Panny/Fujitsu/Hitachi, and NEC/Pioneer.
     
  10. camorra

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    Though, FHP will be boosting production of its Miyazaki plant aggressively:-
    http://www.hitachi-fhp.co.jp/news/050527_e.html

    Hitachi will turn its Fuzhou plant in China from a VGA one to an HD Alis plant.
    Don't think there are plans otherwise. Perhaps we will be seeing Hitachi with
    Panny panels, and Panasonic with Alis panels :rolleyes: who knows??
    But I think that Hitachi and Panasonic are looking beyond our noses with
    this venture.....beyond and far :eek:

    Finally, Matsush*ta's president is a very happy and truthful man, I quote:
    "Matsush*ta president Kunio Nakamura said: "I'm sure our plasma display
    business will further expand in cooperation with Hitachi, which has advanced technology."" :devil:

    Cheerz :hiya:
     
  11. MAW

    MAW
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    OK, a fair cop, camorra. Now will you withdraw that stupid vote on Panny after sales?

    Taking some time to read the press release properly, they do bang on a bit about HD, digital broadcasting, and 'meeting the needs of the end product manufacturers', presumable all the PDP glass makers have been getting it in the neck from folks like Philips etc over inability to supplu a resolution that the public can understand, like the same res as HDTV. Even you've got to admit, Camorra, that with or without any other argument, Alis is a bit confusing to the public. 'it's the wrong shape' 'why can't I send it 1024/1024 from my PC' 'It's really only 512 dots high' and numerous other false and true but confusing statements come out here, where most people are really pretty bright and well informed. XGA panels are nearly as bad, don't take this as alis bashing, I'm simply illustrating the point. It must be HD panels they are heading for, and need the joint financial and technical clout to make it happen.
     
  12. camorra

    camorra
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    It aint' stupid.....

    I had my dad's 42pwd5 with several problems.....

    Crappy picture on delivery......changed that for a new one....
    after 2 days the panle didn't switch on - PSU (think it was!)
    went bust!! Waited 2 weeks for repair cos they didn't have
    in stock neither a new set and nor the PSU!! :eek:

    After 4 months it was the turn of the panel......strange pixel
    performance with lines coming from the right side to the middle.
    They said it was the panel's driving electronics but the panel
    needed to be changed. Another 6 six weeks without plasma...
    At least we got the chance to change the plasma and I got
    (for my dad) a pretty 42PD5200, and he's more than happy
    with it!! :rotfl:

    Mind you that even of my bad experience with Panasonic I still
    regard the company Matsush*ta as a BIG, and beleive in its
    products without being critical in unjustifiable manner to them
    in any way, like others here do with some manufacturers at
    their liking or due to their business concern :devil:

    I just criticised Panasonic's after sales. And may will agree.

    Cheers :hiya:
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    OK, you should have posted that in the poll. Ghastly luck with reliability to start with there, I have only ever known 50" 5 series to go wrong. Never seen a bust 42" of that age, that all happened with the 6 series, so much that they got pretty slick with the PSU swapouts.
    My criticisms of Hitachi are likewise down to personal experience, repeated rather more frequently, as I'm exposed to irate customers rather than just Dads. And I happen not to like the picture personally, but always point out it's personal.
    What are your thoughts re the direction they are taking then, I could be quite excited with the thought of a genuine HD panel, say a 1280/720 42" or similar size.
     
  14. camorra

    camorra
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    They just don't see the reason for it......I don't too!!

    Still they manage to get one of the best picture quality
    at a lower price. The new 42" panels in the 8000 series
    (see japan site) boast 1400cd/m2 brightness and quite
    inproved contrast to 3000:1 from the present 1000:1
    on the 42PD7200. Think it will be a better picture than
    the already acclaimed Picture Master on the 42PD7200.
    :smashin:

    Why change to another thing when you're profitable with
    what you have?? Last year Hitachi was the only Japanese
    manufacturer to make money out of the AV business, even
    if only a small margin those are the facts. The Koreans
    made big big profits. :suicide:

    Finally I agree with you that these BIG Japs need to go
    together to be competitive. I wonder where JVC will be
    standing in the future if they don't wrap up with someone
    else. :cool:

    Cheerz :hiya:
     
  15. MAW

    MAW
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    Why change? I thought it was clear enough we are talking addition, not change, Alis will continue, it's making them money.
    JVC, and other 'small fry' an interesting point. Even Denon might be considered vulnerable. Onkyo and Toshiba are linked, it's backs to the wall with the Koreans on the march! I guess in the end, improved living standards and higher wages will take away their competitive edge, but we are talking decades. The old order will change, or go bust.
     
  16. camorra

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    Yeah your're right.....the old order has to change to survive....

    Do you think Denon will be in such problems?? They claim improved
    sales whereas other bigs claim loss in sales....... Well, to be honest
    I think Hitachi made a mistake in 2001 by letting Denon slip out of
    its pocket. They were filling up each other's void!!

    But also consider that lots of Denon products are produced in China.
    They invested there long ago!!

    Cheers :hiya:
     
  17. JetJockey

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    I am getting the impression , possibly incorrectly, that the ALIS panel / system is not highly thought of here.

    I understood the Fujitsu's of this world used ALIS and that Fujitsu were one of the best on the market. :confused:

    Obviously I have got this wrong. Could somebody clarify please?

    Thanks, Gerald. :)
     
  18. MAW

    MAW
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    Well, Hitachi and Fujitsu share the development and manufacturing of ALIS glass, but use very different electronics. I'm still not a big fan of it mind! Hitachi make no bones of the fact that it's for budget HD screens, it's cheaper to make than conventional panels. it's only in sizes up to 42", the designation 'E-ALIS' is a red herring, it seems to have no technical connection with the alternate lighting panel we know, and have the love/hate relationship with.
     
  19. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    the fujitsu that is widely regarded as the best of the best is a 50" with 1366x768 progressive resolution, not ALIS.

    I thought Hitachi and Panasonic were only teaming up to cut the energy consumption of plasmas? All news to me :D
     
  20. JetJockey

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    That makes a bit more sense as I thought the Fujitsu 50" xxxxUS used the Panasonic glass.

    So no ALIS there then! :thumbsup:

    Gerald. :)
     
  21. MAW

    MAW
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    No, it's only the 42"fuji that wears the purple dress and dances on the table singing 'cunning pixels are here again!'
     
  22. Pattaya Dave

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    I had a 50" Philips Plasma Panel with the ALIS screen. The one good thing you could say about it is that it was bright, even in a brightly lit room,however it had the poorest visible black level especially when you turned the room lights out simulating a movie theater environment. The technicians came and tried every adjustment in the world and could not improve upon the black level. I had it for less than 2 weeks and had to send it back.
     
  23. MAW

    MAW
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    No 50" has ever been ALIS as such, E-alis yes, but that's confusingly nothing to do woith alis.
     
  24. camorra

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    What do you mean by this?? You're wrong....deliberatly wrong!! :confused:

    Sure??? You have been conned.....50" ALIS or e-ALiS Panel Never Existed dear!!!! :devil:

    Cheerz :D
     
  25. MAW

    MAW
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    Certainly not deliberately wrong, Camorra! E-Alis is the name they put to the 50" pioneer based screen, and the 55 FHP screen. Neither of these, as you know, is ALIS like we are talking about re. 42" and smaller, it's a name they put on the processing. It cannot do the same on these glass types as on the 42, it's not physically possible. There's nothing WRONG with E-Alis as such, just it's got nothing to do with the ALIS tech on the smaller screens. Or has it?? What do you know that I don't on this?
     
  26. camorra

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    FHP never released a 50" screen......
    and neither did Fujitsu nor Hitachi release a 50" ALis or e-ALis

    If Fujitsu dubbed a 50" set with a Pioneer panel an E-ALiS set then,
    YES they did a "red herring"!!! :eek:

    Though FHP's 32", 37", 42" and 55" e-ALiS are direct derivatives of ALiS
    panels :thumbsup:
    See here:- http://www.hitachi-fhp.co.jp

    Cheerz :D
     
  27. MAW

    MAW
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    Negative, mate the 55" is a perfectly conventional 1366/768 progressive panel. What's the connection with ALIS that I have missed?

    And Hitachi did have a 50" based on the MXE50 Pioneer. I believe it had e-alis in the product description, though I could be wrong there. The 55 is definitely progressive, and definitely e-alis. That's why I can't see the connection with ALIS as on 42 and under. Nothing wrong with it, just no idea about any similarities. I think it's a nicely 'hitachi' name to give the processing, that's all. Something people immediately associate with the Hitachi brand.
     
  28. camorra

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    If Hitachi defined their 50" with Pioneer glass e-Alis, then they were wrong!!
    But I doubt it.........

    Hope you understand with the following simple explanation:- :lesson:

    FHP's 32", 37" and 42"'s ALiS & Teres Panels
    ALiS method 1024 lines are displayed with 512 scan electrodes

    FHP's 55" e-ALiS
    e-ALiS method 768 lines are displayed with 384 scan electrodes

    Yes, and with pride FHP named this piece of engineering e-ALiS!! :smashin:

    Cheerz :hiya:
     
  29. MAW

    MAW
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    Well don't let it be said I'm not man enough to admit I'm wrong.

    e-ALIS (extended-ALIS) method extends ALIS method for large-screen use. Using ALIS method feature of a common-electrode structure on the front panel, e-ALIS method can display a high-definition image of 768 lines using 384 scan electrodes. The odd lines and even lines are addressed separately within 1/60-sec (one field), then all the activated pixels on whole screen emit light. Perform the same operation in the next 1/60-sec interval (one field) to display a 1/30-sec (one frame) image.

    Unfortunately, this backs up one of my pet hates of alis tech, the fixed 60Hz refresh rate..... Is there somewhere that can put me right on that?
     
  30. camorra

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    There's always time to learn in your life!! ;)

    What you hate maybe what others love!! :)

    One main thing that ALiS can be criticised upon is low contrast
    and inferior blacks to other more expensive panels.

    Though, as I already posted somewhere else the new Hitachi
    8000 series, available in Europe next year boast an improved
    contrast of 3000:1, apart from 1400cd/m2 brightness :thumbsup:

    We will see.

    Cheerz :hiya:
     

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