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Aliens (cert18) Questionable ?

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by briandzo, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. briandzo

    briandzo
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    I bought The Alien box set last week.
    Last night we sat down and watched Aliens (no2)
    I thought id let the kids watch it too.
    ages 9 & 12
    Even though its an 18cert i knew there be no sex scenes
    all too much swearing in it, that may not have been apropiate for them.

    it was interesting to note that after the film the kids said they didnt find it 'that' scary, and asked why the cert18.

    The oldest said that yeah it was a good film, but those effects
    just arnt convincing enough to get them scared.

    This got me thinking, as when i first watched alien some 20 years ago as a late teenager. We were all impressed and taken in
    by what we were watching.

    It takes me back to when i was a kid in the seventys and watched b&w episodes of flash gordan and found it extremely funny & totally unbelievable.

    Where as my parents would have been impressed when watching
    such sci fi stuff in there youth.

    It begs the question, what the next 15 years will bring us.

    Films such as lord of the rings are absolute Gems Today.
    I mean that little boney Snorbitz all whatever hes called.
    is that an actor or animation, It is hard to tell. (JOKE).

    Anyway would aliens still get a '18' if released today ?
     
  2. nathan_silly

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    I Watched Alien when I was 11 (more scary than Aliens)

    Aliens is more of action film. As for the BBFC, I reckon they should be be closed down!
     
  3. Shoka

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    Good Point.

    What was deemed scary/unapropriate when aliens was released may now seem more acceptable. I think that an 18 certificate film now is likely to be a lot worse now, (ie more swearing, more violenet etc) than somethong that was given an 18 around the time of aliens.

    I think it is just a case oif what was deemed exeptable at the time, I would say that aliens apert from a bit more swearing is no worse than jurrasic park.
     
  4. PoochJD

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    Hi,

    I can understand why you all think that "Aliens" being an 18 isn't that bad today. However, there are a few things you need to bear in mind:

    1) There is extensive use of the f-word.
    2) The violence, whilst not excessively graphic, is still pretty grim and quite tough. The film is all about war, and fighting something that is "out-of-this-world". Not to mention, the alien itself is hardly a loveable creature is it?
    3) There is the fact that you have a young child in peril, and viewing the use of weaponry and other assorted "illegal" arms.

    The film was made in 1986, some 17 years ago now! Obviously a film like that, is going to age, and probably wouldn't warrant an "18" certificate today. However, the reason the BBFC don't reclassify films like this, is because the film has always been given an "18" in every version since then. It was never considered suitable to be given a lower certificate. I would have to agree with the BBFC on this one.

    Also, whilst not questioning your right as a parent to do so, I do have to ask why any parent can let a 9 and 12 year old watch an "18" certificate film, no matter what its content is/isn't, and regardless of the fact that the kids are watching it with their parents.

    This, in my mind, kind of gives the wrong impression to children. That because mummy and daddy break rules, that it's okay to break rules in general, which - I am presuming - is not something you are trying to teach your kids, correct?

    Technically, you aren't supposed to let anyone under the age of "18" to view the film, at least in the eyes of the law. And I do have to wonder whether it is right to let them see "18" certificate films at such a young age.

    I am not slating you as a parent, just questioning your actions, and purely for curiosity's sake. So please don't take this as a personal attack against yourself, Briandzo.

    Cheers,

    Pooch
     
  5. James45

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    i have to say I would question letting a nine year old watch Aliens. very nasty theme... the "kill me" chest burst scene in particular. and watching a fella (however white his blood) ripped in half?! it's a sad thing that a nine year old ain't disturbed by that.
    I watched Robocop when I was about nine or ten and that freaked me out completely the sadistic nature of murphy's murder in particular.
     
  6. nathan_silly

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    James, I think you should change your Avatar! (Rock hard) :D

    I think it's better to show kids (10 year old) Aliens, than go overboard like Zombie films (or keep em protected by only allowing teletubbies etc)


    When I watched it, it was scary- but I knew it was a film. Any kid who is immature for their age shouldn't be allowed to watch it.

    Alien didn't give me nightmares either!
     
  7. Dick Scratcher

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    Good thread. Dealing with the Alien(s) example, Alien was a suspense/horror themed movie, Dan O'Bannon's script idea (originally set on a B52 bomber heading back from a mission in WW2) was for it to be a haunted house in space story and was magnificently executed. Aliens is a straight war/action movie and James Cameron used a lot of Vietnam themes to pull the story together, and produced a great action movie.

    It seems to me that the logical progression of this thread would be to see if anyone thinks there are any 18 rated films that have stood the test of time and still warant 18 certification. Not many I would imagine but Hammer oldie 'The Skull' still makes me look over my shoulder when I watch it alone. :eek:
     
  8. briandzo

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    Fare Comments....(pooch Jd)

    Yes and No.

    Its a scary? movie thats all.
    At the most its going to give them a few bad dreams.
    Watching the 6 o'clock news nowadays
    can feed a child with more worrying thoughts.

    As i Said lord of the rings. That too has some
    weird looking creatures in it.

    I wouldn't let any child watch what i would consider
    a genuine adult material film. eg porn.
    These are strictly no go areas.
    My copy of 'salo' is well tucked away.
    films such as that are definately not for any childs eyes.

    Also classic horrors that include rape scenes
    such as 'the exorcist' are also no go zones for the kids.

    But 'aliens' cert18. umm i think not.
     
  9. CW1000

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    It would most proberly get a 15 rating if released now.

    Fox can't be bothered to submit it for classification at a lower rating because if they do and it gets cut the bbfc rules state that they have to withdraw the 18 rated version from sale (the no dual ratings policy)
     
  10. PoochJD

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    Hi,

    Briandzo - Thanks for the response. I can certainly understand that "Aliens" would NOT get an "18" nowadays. However, I still think that showing any "18" film to a 9 and 12 year old, is.... well, certainly a questionable action. "15" certificate films, maybe, but not an "18".

    However, that's just my opinion, and as you are the parent and not me, it's unjust for me to try and dictate to anyone, otherwise.

    I think maybe we should open this discussion up, a little bit further.

    I'm pretty certain that most people aren't keen on the BBFC, except for when it comes to protecting children, yes? And I'm almost certain that the vast majority of you will or have imported DVD's at one time or another (be it a Disney film, or a banned video nasty).

    What is your opinion, both from parents and single people, about the rights and wrongs of showing age-rated films to children not of that actual age, be it showing an "18" to a 10 year old, or the same "18" film to someone who's 16, for example?

    Do you think that the news or media should be censored, bearing in mind that anyone can watch it or have access to Page 3 in the "Sun" newspaper? (Unlike an age-rated film, which can't be accessed by everyone.)

    Thoughts please.

    Pooch
     
  11. Shoka

    Shoka
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    I remember when I first saw a 18 rated film, I was 11 and the film was an American Werewolf in London, it scared the life out of me for days.

    I think if it is a film that is indeed scary (as that was then, but seems funny now) then it should not be shown to people as young as 9 or 10, I know I couldnt sleep for days, but with regards to action films i.e die hard then then I would say this is pretty OK.

    I dont have kids so I cant say for sure that I wouldn't let my kids watch a certain film, I suppose my views may change when actually put in the situation.
     
  12. wilber

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    I think the BBFC are now doing a pretty good job of things. Sure they aren't perfect & they get things wrong (cut a head butt from SW but not LOTR??).

    The introduction of 12a is a good move , there are now less 18 cert movies than ten years ago and the relaxation of archaic censorship laws is to be applauded. I think a move to 15a (parent accompanying a child over 13 say) might be a good thing & maybe scrapping 18 & replacing it with 16 (after all if you can join the army etc etc etc)
    [rant]
    My opinion is though that a film rated at a given point should be viewed by people of the appropriate age. I have been pleased to see cinemas taking this more seriously but I think they're too lax still and video rental shops are a menace. Parents should respect the ratings in the same way as we are expected to respect speed limits. I have a little knowledge (dangerous) of child psych from my degree but I know nothing of the harm a movie like Saving Private Ryan could do to a nine year old so I wouldn't let them see it
    [/rant]
     
  13. Joe Pineapples

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    no offense, but was it ever supposed to be anything else? :)
     
  14. GrahamC

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    Hi all,

    May I add what a great thread and offer a few of my own opinions. As the parent of four (now grown up children) I had to work with this dilemma for a number of years and must say that I have never had a problem with the film classification system as used in this country. The worst that I had to endure was watching a lot of films twice, once to check the PG rating and then again with the family. So called horror films are these days do seem to be are a lot tamer but I think are more sophisticated (less blood and guts and more creepy what’s behind the door)

    I like the recent trend of tag lining the rating (as with the LOTR films) as this gives a little more info for the parent. A parent should know the sensitivities of their children and use this as the rule for watching any film or TV. I remember not renting Watership Down, as my youngest would not like the dog attacking the rabbits.

    I know a lot of people find the classification system a pain but these days its not so much as what you can show as what the studios want to syndicate at which is the censorship level and as such find that the rating is generally a reasonably good guide as to the content of most if not every film. The worst area I find is the previewing of after the watershed shows at the 6-8 o’clock time frame, which can get close to the knuckle especially on satellite. Also the news can be a bit grim at times and some things should be held over to the late bulletins.
     
  15. Lex

    Lex
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    What absolutely boggles my mind about this issue is that people are more concerned about sex then they are violence! I see no comparison between the two; sex (whether we like it or not) is a part of every day life - grotesque aliens ripping people's guts out, well that's a different matter (and not something I would really compare with the 6 o'clock news!)

    Like Pooch I wouldn't dream of telling you what you should or shouldn't be doing with your children briandzo, but I would be very surprised if your (or any) kids weren't disturbed by watching Aliens (which of course they would never admit to). I remember watching Aliens as a kid and it definitely disturbed me (although again I never would have admitted this to anyone at the time).

    I think what makes Aliens an 18 is its overall darkness - I mean you could almost compare the plot with Jurassic Park: monsters running around killing off the main protagonists one by one, but the difference is the style in which it is done - Aliens has a much nastier undercurrent running through it which is what in my mind makes it a much more adult film!

    In reality now I think BBFC Certificates are only really relevant in the cinema, as almost all adults who have DVDs or VHS tapes will allow their kids to watch them - at least everyone I know does.
     
  16. adi

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    i have a nine year old son, and to be brutally honest, i'd rather have him watch Aliens than some of the recent episodes of Eastenders or Coronation Street.

    at least with cinema / video / dvd you have a guideline on which to base your own opinions. I watched Armaggedon with him the other week and he really enjoyed it - he was very exicted with the action - was very concerned about the destruction of the cities and was genuinley overjoyed and elated when the earth was saved - he understood harry's self sacrifice.......it didnt disturb him at all

    however - he was genuinley upset over the "rape of little Mo" episode of Eastenders, and the "murder of Maxine" episode in Coronation Street - although neither of these (to an adult's eyes) was excessivly violent, the way in which they were filmed was very disturbing indeed - both these episodes were shown pre-watershed, with miniumum details of how the scenes would be portayed.

    adi
     
  17. nathan_silly

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    That's my point.

    A kid can tell the difference between "make believe" and reality. It's pretty obvious to a kid aliens jumping all over the place is make believe, wheras eastenders is set real-life- when someone is raped etc I guess it hits the kid harder.
     
  18. James45

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    oh come on the murder of maxine was filmed like a panto, it was all 'stage front', the police walked in and practically said 'what's all this then?':D
     
  19. John-D

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    I remember watching American Werewolf in London, when I was 11 (pirate video). :nono:

    My mum and dad always said at the time. "That when it's in their house, it's up to them what I see, not some government perve getting whipped by Miss Whiplash, to tell them our to bring me up!" And no! I never saw any porn. In-fact, there was never any in the house. And if there was, well I didn't know about it.

    And you know what? They did a great job!

    I'm still here, nothing has scared me, I've no criminal record, I don't start fights, I've never caused any harm to anyone. I've never acted out violent acts, seen in any movie. Not unless you count playing with my Star Wars toys.

    Hell, I watched Aliens at 17, still breaking the law. And one tread said that seeing a robot torn in half, is still a violent act for kids to see. So was seeing C3PO get blasted, in Empire. A robot that every kid sort of knew.

    I mean, take AOTC. It shows 4 (3 Sandpeople) heads and 2 arms getting cut off, yet they (BBFC) chop-out an head-butt. Whats that about? Cause the BBFC say "That it might be acted out in the playground." Morelike the kids will act out the Mace Windu scene. OK, with make-believe Lightsabre's, but still an act that's as bad as an head-butt.

    If kids of today are anything like I was, when I were a wee nipper. Then they'll wanna know what they're missing out on. It's a human trate, to be nosey :D .

    And anyway, if I had watched anything that would of scared me, I wouldn't of watched it, at all. My parents were always there, with me when these movies types (X, AA) were shown. And was always told about how films were made, and that what was on screen, was made up. Also, if any scene that showed rape or any violent sex was on screen, the stop button was hit. And I would of got my marching orders.

    I know that some films of today are more violent than back then. But in the home, I still believe it's up to the parents to show sense in what their kids watch.

    Later,
    John
     
  20. PoochJD

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    Hi,

    I think what this all comes down to, is not that any of us wish to tell Briandzo what he should/should not let his kids watch, but that for ANY adult to let ANY child watch an "18" certificate film, is certainly a questionable action for any parent.

    Yes, stuff in soaps can be more disturbing, but then again so can PG films. I really hate "Arachnophobia" (PG film) and "The Rats" (which I recently raved about, and that is only a 12 certificate). Yet, both are pretty disturbing viewing, even for someone like me, who can happily sit through some of the really nasty titles that exist out there on VHS and DVD!

    Admittedly, I'm not sure I'd even allow kids to watch some of the soaps, regardless of their timeslot, only because I personally feel they don't promote anything worthwhile to children. There hardly what could be called entertaining, in a child's eyes, and aren't exactly educational either. As such, I don't see them having any value whatsoever. However, as an adult, or an older teenager, then soaps can certainly offer more value, as they do deal with certain real-life scenarios which can lead to valuable discussions. But for younger children, I wouldn't be overly pleased with my kids (if I had any) watching them. They're like the TV equivalent of the "News Of The World": gutter-style/trash TV.

    Despite all this, it is up to each and every parent to decide for themselves what they do or don't let their kids view. I have to say I remember watching "Aliens" when it was shown on ITV, on a Saturday night (between 9:25 and 11:50pm) when I was about 14 or 15. I loved it! And whilst my mum wasn't overly pleased about the suitability of me watching this, I think she could easily tell that I wasn't being "affected" or "disturbed" by it.

    Having said that, this was in the days when ITV censored practically every single movie, and changed the f-word to something far less offensive.

    Anyway, I'm off to bed!

    Pooch
     
  21. James45

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    "I prefer the term synthetic person myself.":D :rotfl:

    C3PO didn't have internal organs tho did he?!:rolleyes:
     
  22. nathan_silly

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    Found it amusing all three Star Wars recieved U ratings, when in the first 5 minutes Vader snaps the guys neck!

    The BBFC are a bunch of corrupt, nosy, arrogant Nazis who have no right telling me my copy of Terminator 2 has to be edited.

    Nathan
     
  23. Sgt.Colon

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    What I find even more disturbing is that Pooch is still watching VHS. :laugh: :D
     
  24. KRRK

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    It's difficult to tell what kids are going to find scary, though. I was scared stiff by an episode of 'armchair thriller', with the faceless nun, when i was a kid. And the music from Black Beauty used to terrify me for some reason.
     
  25. jammy

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    Class discussion. I saw Terminator at around 12-13 and it was an 18 at the time of release. It didn't frighten me although I don't think the frightening aspect is reason to show/not show films to children. The sixth sense and the ring are relatively low ratings and are terrifying to a lot of supposed adults. I have also seen a child terrified by a Bugs Life (Kevin Spacey's character) but it'd considered fine to show most children. (What is it, U certificate?) Parents can make their own judgements on what to show children, in life as well as as in media. Perhaps parents who are free about the naked human form will have children who aren't hung about nudity and similarly parents who show their children film, which is deemed to have adult content (i.e horror), will have children who aren't nervous or easily shaken. I don't think there are any definites, when it comes to children and there is no way to predict how a parents actions will shape them.
     
  26. jammy

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    KRKK, are you talking about "Quit as a Nun"?
    That was terrifying, now you're talking.
    Just the music to Armchair Thriller could make me lay a log.
     
  27. camlogan

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    the ratings in this country are a joke - that movie is not an 18 rated movie - not even back in the day. In New Zealand where I come from it was rated R13. i.e. 13 years and over to watch it without supervision!

    Also, when I was about 9 I watched all sorts of movies - most of them r rated and all it did was wet my apptite for movies :laugh:

    CaM
     
  28. KRRK

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    Jammy, yeah, that was it. Severly trauamtised me for a while that. I was sick off school and it was on one afternoon as I was waiting for 'my' programmes to start.
     
  29. danielzavitz

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    doesn't every new version of a film have to be classified by the bbfc. so each rerelease of aliens (like the recent dvd) would have been.
    that can't be that old, and the bbfc decided it was still worth an 18 then, and i bet they do when fox get round to releasing the 9disc set over here.
     
  30. John-D

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    A few plastic pipes and white milk, do not look like human internal organs. Morelike, Spaghetti Carbonara. :D

    John
     

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