Aggresive bosses

dazzafact

Active Member
My wife has started a new job, a step up the food chain, for a smallish company down south. Her boss, whilst ok for the first 3 months, has now turned into a complete ar£e. He has a very aggresive aproach to man management, and is extremely rude. My wife, being only 28, (and under 5ft)has never had to deal with anything to this extreme; and she was a customer service manager for a company that received a great deal of aggressive complaints.

How should she deal with this man. Should she aproach him about his behaviour, or would that make him worse? Should she talk to another director regarding his aggressive temperament and how it's making her feel, or would that be not very proffesional? Any other ideas?

I only ask as I'm about to phone a few lads up and go down south and kick his ar3e! And I'm not sure my wife will be too chuffed.:D
 

limblee

Well-known Member
I'd just laugh in his face.

Honestly if he was ok for 3 months then turned aggressive he maybe having problems at home, he might ok in a weeks time.
 

Mr Incredible

Distinguished Member
If there is a HR department or Manager, I'd lodge an informal complaint because he may be like that with others and the company need to know in case they become liable for stress related illness.
 

Setenza

Well-known Member
Make sure your wife does everything by the book. The bosses mood swings may be due to legitimate stress or a personal problem. However, he could be an ill mannered son of a window dresser, with the interpersonal skills of a rocking horse.

It is never wise, particularly for women, to try to fix the problem on their own. Follow procedure. Log events, always ensure that there are credible witnesses about.

My rule of thumb is I will not tolerate, rudeness, ill manners or bullying at home. I certainly will not have it at work from someone who is to all intents and purposes, a stranger.

If someone of a senior grade tries to shout at you in public, I find the best thing is to stay calm, let them have their say, then respond in this fashion. "Have you finished?" "I am not prepared to deal with you when you behave in such a fashion. I will discuss this point/matter/situation, when you can conduct yourself in a more appropriate fashion".

It is not rude or offensive but it is assertive and dignified.

Always take "heated" discussions to an office. Take a 3rd party to mediate if required.

Never descend to their level.
 

Miyazaki

Distinguished Member
If there is a HR department or Manager, I'd lodge an informal complaint because he may be like that with others and the company need to know in case they become liable for stress related illness.

If I was her i'd be tempted to get signed off for stress related illness, whilst sending a letter to HR explaining why I was signed off.

It's probably just small penis syndrome TBH.
 

dazzafact

Active Member
Sorry guys, I forgot to point out that aswell as being her boss, he is also the sales director/dictator but he also has a sizable share of the company. All your comments are fair responses apart from the stress one:eek: although she is suffering.:( When I've been in situations like this (granted, I was only a mere factory manager for a small window firm), I tended to go for the facetious/sarcastic remarks, gently put across. it kinda worked.

There is no real Hr department to report to, just other directors and she is one of four senior managers; albiet a young un. He may actual be testing her mold, to see how she takes the pressure, but what kind of dir, does that nowadays???
I mean what kind part owner of a company would indulge in such behaviour when it is clearly having a negative effect on her work?:confused:
 

shodan

Distinguished Member
When I was 17 I worked at a garage where the manager was was fine for a week then he turned into an agressive, bullying, verbally abusive idiot.
I put up with it until the second month then after he berated me in front of people I asked to speak to him in his office. We went into his office and he sat behind his desk and me in front of it.
He said later that he stood up and meant to slam his hands down on the desk to emphasise his point. All I saw was angry man suddenly stand up and raise hs hands.

So I knocked him out.

I then went back to work and he didn't speak to me till the end of the three month probation where I was "let go" due to cut backs as I was the last person to be employed so was the first to go. I got all my pay and everything and wasn't sacked so it turned out alright for me, although I wouldn't want to go through that again and I know now that it was not the correct response to bullying in the workplace (did feel very good though!!!). But I don't suggest your wife knocks his lights out though!!!
 

gus607

Active Member
Would you let anyone be rude & treat your wife like this ? No you wouldn't, so go round there & drop this Wannabe Hitler & then let your wife have the satisfaction of telling him to stuff his job.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
She should primarily, keep a diary of all his abusive and aggressive behaviour. Note the times, dates and what was said. If she feels threatened or intimidated then it's against a multitude of different employment and human rights laws.

If it's possible for her to join a union then she should do so then present this diary to the union official and seek advice from them.

If she can't join a union and you can't afford a solicitor, your wife will need to find another job and the manager in question requires a good shoeing from affronted hubby.:D
 

raigraphixs

Distinguished Member
Tell her to say to this jerk is a calm manner 'his name...why are you always shouting and putting me down?, i told my husband and he said him and his mates want a word with you, do you want him to come and see you tomorrow at work?

Let those words rattle around his stupid head for a few hours, and if his attitude changes then his learnt a lesson, of not, get yourself over there, or the biggest baddiest mate you have (could play the brother role) and speak to this jerk is a calm, but face to face, that your wife is coming home very upset, and does he know who could be upsetting her?.



....
 

dazzafact

Active Member
Its a very difficult situation we're in (see other threads)!! She has taken a job down south so we are 3 weeks from fully relocating - house on the market and buying a new house etc. I am currently out of work so our only source of income is hers. Bless her.

She is taking notes about it. But I will say he is apparently like it with a lot of people.

My wife is only 4ft 11, and weighs in at an average of 6.5 - 7 stone and I am extremely protective about her due to a lot of serious traumas she has gone through; If I thought that she wouldn't kick my ass, I would consider talking to him about it:devil: . But in my experience, people have to go through these things to make them better managers, and as shes only a spring chicken, I'm kinda leaving her to evaluate it herself.

I think the main issue is that she was head hunted and relocated with the knowledge she had no full experience with this role and they have given her no guidance, then all of a sudden he's throwing his weight around. Just seems quite odd.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
Its a very difficult situation we're in (see other threads)!! She has taken a job down south so we are 3 weeks from fully relocating - house on the market and buying a new house etc. I am currently out of work so our only source of income is hers. Bless her.

She is taking notes about it. But I will say he is apparently like it with a lot of people.

My wife is only 4ft 11, and weighs in at an average of 6.5 - 7 stone and I am extremely protective about her due to a lot of serious traumas she has gone through; If I thought that she wouldn't kick my ass, I would consider talking to him about it:devil: . But in my experience, people have to go through these things to make them better managers, and as shes only a spring chicken, I'm kinda leaving her to evaluate it herself.

I think the main issue is that she was head hunted and relocated with the knowledge she had no full experience with this role and they have given her no guidance, then all of a sudden he's throwing his weight around. Just seems quite odd.

Maybe a calm, discreete phone call to her boss may help. He may not even realise how she feels and if he did would more than likely change his manner in an instant.

You can't beat calm reasoned communication and if that doesn't work there's always "other" options.:devil:
 

chriszzzzzz

Active Member
If she was head hunted then perhaps the best person for her to speak to is the one that she dealt with during the interview process. She should explain the situation and that they wanted her so she would expect to be treated properly. That person could also address the issue of giving her some assistance/knowledge to enable her to get up to speed with the job.
It's most of your living time at work and it's not worth just letting it ride. Either get it sorted or look for alternative employment....
I have dealt with this several times. Each time has been successful but dealt with differently. The most extreme case was a locker room encounter with no witness. The others were dealt with sensibly....All had the desired outcome...

Good luck..
 

informationx

Standard Member
My wife has started a new job, a step up the food chain, for a smallish company down south. Her boss, whilst ok for the first 3 months, has now turned into a complete ar£e. He has a very aggresive aproach to man management, and is extremely rude. My wife, being only 28, (and under 5ft)has never had to deal with anything to this extreme; and she was a customer service manager for a company that received a great deal of aggressive complaints.

How should she deal with this man. Should she aproach him about his behaviour, or would that make him worse? Should she talk to another director regarding his aggressive temperament and how it's making her feel, or would that be not very proffesional? Any other ideas?

I only ask as I'm about to phone a few lads up and go down south and kick his ar3e! And I'm not sure my wife will be too chuffed.:D

Get a digital sound recorder, and hide it. Take a record of all his rudeness and what he does. Keep a personal written record as well, and have others confirm his actions if you can.

Look here for some info -:

http://www.tuc.org.uk/tuc/rights_bullyatwork.cfm

Good luck!
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
Tell her to say to this jerk is a calm manner 'his name...why are you always shouting and putting me down?, i told my husband and he said him and his mates want a word with you, do you want him to come and see you tomorrow at work?
If anyone said that to me I'd be wondering why my judgement had allowed me to recruit someone whose mentality belonged in the school playground. I'd suggest that a more mature approach is needed.
 

raigraphixs

Distinguished Member
If anyone said that to me I'd be wondering why my judgement had allowed me to recruit someone whose mentality belonged in the school playground. I'd suggest that a more mature approach is needed.



this guy is acting like a playground bully, he's an idiot, nothing mature about him so treat him likewise.



...
 

stealther

Novice Member
I would just ask him straight out if he has a problem with me and start a sensible conversation without raising my voice or using threatening body language etc and see what he has to say.
 

Jenn

Distinguished Member
If I was in her situation I wouldn't want my husband to become involved simply because it would make me look like "an idiot who can't stand up for myself". I would certainly ask advice of him like she has done but wouldn't want him to talk to my boss for me.

My reaction I guess (never happened to me) would be not to take the guy seriously anymore after a while. Unless he scares her she should just forget about it and think to herself what an idiot he is while he's shouting.

If she feels something needs to be done about it, she could ask him and another owner/director of the company for a meeting and discuss calmly how his attitude feels threatening to her and why and then explain that if he has any issues with her that she would be more receptive if he talked to her in a calm and polite manner.
Having someone else in the room who is his equal and neutral should help for the nerves and feeling safer and stop him from doing stupid things.
 

unique

Moderator
i've read this over the past couple of days, wanting to offer help, but wondering what to say. it's obviously a very difficult situation you are in. it's pretty much a case of in for a penny, in for a pound, as you are selling up and relocating for this job, so it's not a simple case of if it doesn't work out in 3 or 6 months she can get another job. even then, leaving a permanent contract after such a short period of time doesn't usually look good on a CV, particularly not if you are looking for reasonably high up jobs, well paid jobs, or jobs where long term comittment is sought. sure, many people might disagree with that, but if say 50% of recruiters thought that way, it greatly reduces chances of employment elsewhere

the other thing that makes the situation difficult is the heirarchy of the business. i get the impression there is no proper HR department/setup, so no formal greivance procedure is in place, and even then, if the boss is an owner or major shareholder, they will likely have the power and influence to overrule any normal procedure and decision if a formal complaint was to be made

now strangely enough, that could work to your benefit...

due to the short period of time your wife has been employed so far, it's not that difficult or costly to terminate her employment this far in, without her being able to do much about it. the reason i mention this is because an attempt to discuss the issue with the boss in question could result in him wanting to terminate her employment. some bosses have the opinion that they pay £xK PA and they expect people to work without complaint for the money, as they are paid well enough to do it, and they will get someone else to do it if you won't. now regardless of your thoughts on that, those people still exist, and this guy could well fit that profile.

you don't mention examples of what he has done that you or your wife don't like. the thing is, people have different thresholds and ideas of what they consider aggressive or bullying. whilst you say your wife enountered people in the past that she considered rude or agressive, other people might not have shared the same views. i've worked in a few different workplaces, and what could be considered the norm in one environment (such as a factory floor), would be considered rude in another, and on the other hand, the lack of forcefulness in some environments might not get the job done, or be what bosses are looking for, as not every company is that interested friendliness, the intention of most companies is to make a profit after all. using myself as an example, most people in my organisation are so damn nice, that if i don't write "could you pretty please with sugar on the top, possibly just"... (do your ****ing job like your supposed to!) and preceed it with a load of crap like "i hope you had a fantastic weekend, isn't the weather lovely, the daisies look fantastic in the garden", then even though i fill my request with please and thankyou's and offer any help to them, i'm considered rude and agressive by some, as i ask for requests in what i believe would be considered a professional and formal manner in most work environments, and even polite in most places i've worked for (as i have to bear in mind that most of the people i deal with have fragile personalities, so i water things down).

now if the guy isn't personally rude, agressive, etc towards your wife, it's probably best to let it slide. if it is particularly bad and aimed personally at your wife to the degree where she simply can't stand the situation, she should make note of the issues and the dates/times, and if they occur frequently, to the state where she can no longer stand her job, she should seek advise from the likes of ACAS or CAB, as it might then be a case where she has to take official action, which under the circumstances of him being an owner, would likely be along the lines of resigning and claiming unfair dismissal, however the rules of those claims have changed to make it harder to claim, and there are specific steps and actions you have to follow in order to make your claim stick. IF successful, if all the appropriate steps are followed correctly (and make sure advise is taken to ensure this is the case), your wive COULD be awarded favourably, moreso under the situation that you have both relocated, etc. but of course this is a final straw situation, as again it can prove difficult to regain further employment if your prospective employers are aware that the previous job ended in a disciplinary tribunal. of course it shouldn't, and recruiters wouldn't admit to it going on, but trust me it happens. bosses don't want to take risks. personally, i wouldn't want to take that risk in employing someone who didn't like the last job so much they took them to a tribunal, just in case they don't like working for me and do the same to me. tribunals can be won or lost on technicalities, so no matter how much i think i toe the line, a simple mistake could be costly to the employer

so basically, you are left with 2 main options, stick with it, your wife bites her tongue and puts up with things to see if they improve (as someone else points out, the guy could just be going thru a bad time - asking some others she might find out if thats the case), or the other option is to break things off now, get her to leave the job and don't sell the house and stay where you are. a big hard decision, but if you really think it's not going to work out, now is maybe the best time to pull the plug, otherwise things might get ugly

hopefully things will work out fine. sorry to sound so negative above, but i'm just trying to be helpful. i reckon stick it out a year and see how things go with the new job, but it's not my decision
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
You told the world your wifes weight and you lived to tell the tale. She must the nicest, calmest, most self-restrained and forgiving woman ever.
Perhaps its time she got mean?
 

MikeTV

Distinguished Member
I am not sure there are any easy answers. Some companies just have aggressive cultures. The commercial world can be dog-eat-dog, and maybe the directors even encourage some aggression. It just depends. It's rare in these cases that others do not feel the same way, and sometimes it can be tolerated, if his bark is worse than his bite. Others may think that he is an a*$e too. That doesn't excuse his behaviour. But maybe he'll get his comuppance in time.

So, I think you are left with choices. Is it worth putting up with, in the hope it will improve, or is it so bad that it would it be better to look for another opportunity elsewhere? Informally talking to other colleagues involved can be helpful. But sadly, I don't think formally escalating the issue will help much (and may easily make matters worse). Remaining calm, dignified, and professional throughout, is certainly worthwhile - it will just make his behaviour seem all the more rediculous.
 

dazzafact

Active Member
Firstly, thanks for the replies. The situation has got slightly worse in that my wife now does believe she is being bullied. And can \i just say that she will have thought long and hard before telling me this.

To add to what I've mentioned already, the guy in question iss known to be a very agressive people manager, and several members of staff left before my wife joined the company. Someone pointed out that certain managers need to address staff in a different manner due to their "fragile personalities". I'm a little confused about this for several reasons. Managers should always address staff in different ways, depending on the situation and the member of staff they are dealing with; a good manager will be able to see which works best. On all occasions politeness is a must. My wife hasn't a fragile personality, far from it; however, 3 weeks of aggressive finger poking, desk slamming abuse for things that require guidance from your superior would make even me rather fragile. And of course my work would suffer because of it. Is it not the job of a manager to get the most out of their staff?
 

Mep

Well-known Member
It is indeed and this guy obviously has a major personality defect!

Your wife should go and see HR immediately, there is a never an excuse for bullying of any nature.
 

unique

Moderator
Firstly, thanks for the replies. The situation has got slightly worse in that my wife now does believe she is being bullied. And can \i just say that she will have thought long and hard before telling me this.

To add to what I've mentioned already, the guy in question iss known to be a very agressive people manager, and several members of staff left before my wife joined the company. Someone pointed out that certain managers need to address staff in a different manner due to their "fragile personalities". I'm a little confused about this for several reasons. Managers should always address staff in different ways, depending on the situation and the member of staff they are dealing with; a good manager will be able to see which works best. On all occasions politeness is a must. My wife hasn't a fragile personality, far from it; however, 3 weeks of aggressive finger poking, desk slamming abuse for things that require guidance from your superior would make even me rather fragile. And of course my work would suffer because of it. Is it not the job of a manager to get the most out of their staff?

i would suggest contacting ACAS to discuss the matter, and I would think seriously about pulling out of your relocation. personally, i wouldn't want to move to a new area and job i didn't feel i was being treated right within such a short period

what you say about how a manager should be isn't wrong, however in the real world there are so many managers out there, and there are a number of reasons why they are managers. some are recruited externally to fill a management post, and credetials, experience, qualifications etc will be examined and the best person choosen for the job. in some cases, perhaps due to poor salary, companies can be more desperate to fill the post with anyone who wants it, and then just put up with things as they know how hard it is to get decent staff (particularly on a budget)

in other cases, managers simply worked their way up, or should i say, they have stayed long enough that so many people have left that they are given the job almost by default as the company can't find anyone else to do it. these are people with no man management skills or training, sometimes people who are nice and friendly to everyone, but can't manage a paper bag, but others could be great at organising, but have awful people skills, perhaps coming from ex army, police or factory background, where shouting is the normal technique for getting people to get the job done

in this case however, the manager has bought themselves into the role by being a shareholder and director. they may well have an "i didn't get where i am today" attitude, and certainly had no training in management or people skills, and perhaps a similar dislike to red tape, paperwork, laws and procedures, knowing fine well that in most cases people don't take things further. only a tiny amount of people who get fired will try and take a boss to a tribunal as they don't want the hassle. so many people will just put up with any old crap in a job as long as they get paid at the end of the month. options for alternate employment may be so limited, or even just emotionally limited (ie. they don't think they can get another job easily), that people just stay in the job until someone big happens, such as being fired

anyways, it seems clear that this guy isn't a good boss, and due to the heirarchy of the company, and the fact he is at least part owner, i doubt things are going to improve to a satisfactory position one way or another. you could relocate and then find your wife is fired or has to resign as she can't stand it. of course she could possibly take the company to a tribunal, but official steps have to be followed to be successful, and due to the short nature of the contract the award may not be that much at all. if there aren't many suitable alternate employers in the area you could find things tough, which is why i think your wife should consider calling it quits before you relocate and get into a worse position. if you go ahead with the move, she should seek advise from ACAS about bullying and try and stick it out for long enough and following the ACAS recommendations so that she could take them to a tribunal after a period of following the right steps. but after what you say, it sounds unlikely that she would want to stick it out for so long.

not good news, but i wouldn't like to hear you selling up, moving out and then you are both out of work in a few short months. getting the guy beaten up or any foul play on your behalf is just bad news and isn't going to help your case, you have to take formal and official action if your wife wants to keep on working for them, and ACAS or an employment lawyer is your best bet (or even CAB)
 

dazzafact

Active Member
getting the guy beaten up or any foul play on your behalf is just bad news and isn't going to help your case, you have to take formal and official action if your wife wants to keep on working for them, and ACAS or an employment lawyer is your best bet (or even CAB)

I wasn't actually serious when I said I was gonna go down there and sort him out!!:eek: The wife and I are both managers by trade; me being the factory shouting kinda worked myself up to the role type of one:hiya: however, we are both fully aware of how not to deal with folk!

i think this really boils down to my confusion of why someone would headhunt someone in the knowledge that they have no experience at that level, but the obvious talent and then just abuse them about the things that he has failed to give her guidance on; then abuse them when they ask for assistance. I'm a great believer in "if you don't know, ask" situation at any level. not one person knows more than the next in everything!!:lesson:
 

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