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AE200 dust blob fixed but.....

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by evilash, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. evilash

    evilash
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    after successfully fixing a dust blob problem, i swear the picture looks more washed out ... i know black is more like grey on these machines but it looks even moreso. any ideas on how i have screwed up? btw thanks to this forum for the advice on how to fix dust blobs..........
     
  2. evilash

    evilash
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    anyone?
     
  3. evilash

    evilash
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    someone please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    a friend who regularly watches movies on my pj noticed the lack of black straight away... he said it looks more like a dark green..


    all i did was clean the dust blob on one of panels and put it back together.... its starting to really bug me now... anyone know where i went wrong........
     
  4. theritz

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    Beats the hell out of me :confused: .......................

    Obvious, I know, but have you recheck the picture settings etc. ?

    Sean G.
     
  5. LTJ

    LTJ
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    Evilash. How did you remove the dust?
    If you used an air-duster are you sure that the gas/fliud never got onto the lcd panels/optics. Always keep the air-duster upright.

    With my old philips hopper SV10. I eventually got the courage to dismantle the device and when I did I went mad clean the 20 odd glass/lcd surfaces. I thought I'd be clever and use the Russ Andrews anti-stat cleaner. It was a big mistake the image was absolutely awful. Washed out green tinge on dark scenes. The trouble was the anti-static cleaner left a polish on the surfaces That polish reflected light so the light from the lamp was being sort of bounced back due to the polish, hence the very poor light output. In this case I was so anxiuos and confused I carefully cleaned all of the lenses and polarizers in a mild detergent rinsing off thouroughly and drying with a camera cloth that restored the image back to better than normal.
    I'm not suggesting that you embark upon this course of action. Just pointing out the dangers of contaminating the surfaces.

    So how did you clean the dust off?
     
  6. harrisuk

    harrisuk
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    So see this scare the crap out of me. I have one dust green blob about the size of a tennis ball on mine at the moment.

    I had just plucked up the courage to find calibos guide and try and get rid of it.

    I dont think I will bother having read this. There seems to be a 50 - 50 chance of screwing up your optics. Is there some way you can get these professionally cleaned ?
     
  7. chic

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    its very easy to do i have cleaned my 300 about 4 times and my 100 about 3 times, the main thing is dont invert the can of air keep the pj on its side and give the can a few blasts away from the pj to ensure only air comes out then give the pannels a few short blasts, i then stop then give the air can a long blast away from the pj to clear any fluid build up then i spray the panels again
     
  8. Timh

    Timh
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    I believe Panasonic will clean and service thier projectors but at what cost I do not know, you could always ring for a quote.
     
  9. harrisuk

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    I have decided to give it a go with calibos excellent guide. I only have one at the moment and I cant even see it most of the time but I am sure more will follow so may as well give it a try.

    Look at it this way. If I stuff it up It is going back to Panasonic under warranty anyway.
     
  10. Timh

    Timh
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    harrisuk

    do you have a link to the guide by Calibos.

    Thanks
     
  11. harrisuk

    harrisuk
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    yes someone was kind enough to post it in a thread I started on this today. Have a look in the projector forum its one the firs page.
     
  12. LTJ

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    As I was emailed the grand thread re opening I thought I'd add my ten pounds worth (index linked) again.

    Cleanining the optics off a PJ with a air-duster is only good for the odd loose particle. It will nat and cannot remove the film of dead skin and other droplets tah eventually build on the surface. I know in the panny 100 that the air from the filter is designed to pass across the lcd panels and polarisers to keep the temperature down to a non damaging level. Of course the heat and the dust (sounds like a ivory/merchant film) sucked in by the fan *will find its way onto these suraces within what panny call the optical block and analyzer block. there are around 50 surfaces in that block that will eventually build a layer of sticky dust and grime. Now all these surfaces have to allow the transmission of light once they start to collect this contamination some of that the will scatter . The first sign of this build up is a seemingly loss of contrast and vibrancy. Air dusters are futile against this. Have you ever seen a window cleaner use one? I've successfully cleaned my panny several times
    Always bringing the image up in performance. It's not easy though. Some parts like the lcd panels are easily reachable from one side but not the other. so it's hard to get to as there is another polariser between the lcd panel and the prism. I gave it an over due clean last week but some how the image has gone slightly off. Its blob free but the merest residue on the surfaces at the lcd end can really throw the performance level. I have also developed blemishes on the Blue polariser (inherent in the lens) so I'm going to try and replace it.

    The upshot of all this off course is that non optically sealed PJ's go off the boil very quickly. As for the DLP's well thats a ,mirror. so possibly at that point trouble can begin. I read over on AVS recently the problem with the gunge build up on the colour wheels of a NEC1000. So unless there is a way to protect and seal all optical components the promblem remians but maybe a a far slower rate with the DLP's due to partialy sealed optics and light processing.

    I'll finish of saying that I'm not meaning to be controversial and this is *my* opinion but I feel a fundamental flaw exist in the maintaining of performance of the LCD PJ.

    All the best
    Lawrence
     
  13. harrisuk

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    Can I just ask how long have you had your panny 100 ? I think you have made a very good point there but as I have not heard it before I am guesssing it takes a while for this to happen.

    I like many people only look to keep these things for 12 months, then sell and trade up to a newer better model. Thats being the case its not so much of a problem. Ifs its a £3000 + DLP fair enough, you want some life out of it. But I only paid £1000 for my ae 500 and will still get £500 - £600 for it on ebay after 12 months I would have thought looking at the sort of price the 100 were going for when I bought my PJ.

    This is the whole point. These things are not like a tv or plasma. They are not going to last forever. Look at the bulb life on them and all the other issues.

    Personally if I get 12 months out of this PJ I will be well happy.
     
  14. LTJ

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    Harrisuk. My panny 100 is 15 months old. As regards the deterioration time "I have not heard it before " It's my belief the image quality will drop withinn the first 3-5 months. The trouble being that the decline is gradual so you wouldn't suddenly notice it unless you ran a brand new model alongside to compare. For me the first signs are the picture looks that bit dirtier the colours slightly less vibrant dark scenes take on a green hue and contrasts levels are down. There's less of that blimey that looks good factor. I was wondering whether DLP's with their far greater contrast range prove more resistant to this. Has any one else had a chance to compare their PJs with a brand new version of the same model? Whilst I'm at it has anyone else experienced inconsistant image quality.
    As for longevity. Theres no reason why a projector can't last for years. Surely with more manafacturers trying to seal the optics. The only things can really wear are the lamps. Some of the polarisers may discolour but the electronics should be fine. The only other factor is better and newer models i.e. DVI inputs better res longer lamp life.
     
  15. harrisuk

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    I see what you are saying but the benefit of keeping after 12 months is not great when you consider :

    (1) No warranty.
    (2) Bulb life.
    (3) Price reductions, new models, improvements in technology.
    (4) now your claims of deterioration in quality due to contamination of optics over time.

    A new bulb for one of these things costs £250 - £300.

    Therefore if I can sell mine for £ 500 - £600 after 11 - 12 months (Which looks reasonable on past models sale values) its a done deal as far as I am concerned. Its the cost of a new bulb and a little extra for the warranty. Not to mention better spec model.

    I`m not the only one who thinks like this by any means. At thise price point I feel this is a realistic way of looking at these things.
     
  16. LTJ

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    Harrisuk. I think it's obvious we have two differing approaches here. When I was first drawn to PJs one of the pluses was that the lamp could be replaced albeit at a very high price and the PJ should be as good as new unlike a CRT (tv) which had a finite life span and once the tube had reaced it's end that was it, there was nothing else you could do to extend the life and performance. The pj can run and run with new lamps but the performance will start to drop the moment the fans strike up and draw in air.
    If you want to buy a PJ and then sell it fine! But that does not address the issue of price/performance. I would suggest that so many upgrade is down to the decline oin performance. I don't want to be controversial and provoke intervention by the moderaters. I have no axe to grind against any manafacturer., but this is my experience and view.
    Just one more thing on the pricing of lamps. How comes the lamps used in slide carousel pjs are around 20-30 quid yet LCD/dlp pjs well in the several hundreds.
    Am I missing something here that's different between the two lamps. You know I was buying some dado paper the other day 8 quid for a roll 3" wide and 18' long, yet the equivilent roll of paper what 16" wide 18' long £3.50 . So price cons can take place evry day apparently.
     
  17. harrisuk

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    Well a CRT set will run for 10 years with no visible degradation in quality. There is still a Colour TV set of my Grand dads knocking round my parent’s house. It must be 15 years old and still works perfectly. Then people say that Plasma screens degrade. They do but using it for 4 hours a day with all the settings at max, it will only have lost half its brightness and contrast in 10 years. Most people turn the settings right down as they don’t need everything maxed out. Personally I have had a plasma screen for going on 3 years with settings half way and no visible degradation in quality.

    What I am trying to get at is that if you want perfection and longevity don’t buy a projector. Personally I feel that If you get 12 months out of a projector lamp with heavy use you are doing well.

    In fact I have heard of them going after 250 hours and less if you are unlucky. Another point to make is that the quality will certainly degradate the higher the hours on the lamp is. This is proven fact; it looses brightness and contrast as well as discoloration in areas of the picture in extreme cases. Calibos has a good thread that shows this. Admittedly with very high usage (2000 hours plus I seem to remember) He has obviously been lucky with his projectors lamps.

    I agree lamps are a rip off. That’s part of the reason why I don’t see this projector being with me for more than 12 months. To sell and trade up, if done correctly is little more expensive than replacing the bulb. Which you can probably tell I can feel has certain inevitability about it.

    But we are drifting off topic a little bit here. This thread is actually about servicing Panasonic Projectors and removing dust blobs. We are now into upgrading, cost of bulbs and relative merits of various technologies.

    It is an interesting point you have made about degradation of optics caused by dust that is not easy to remove. With over 150 Panasonic projector owners on this forum I am surprised this has not been discussed before. Maybe it has but I haven’t seen it.
     

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