AE100 v phillips sv10 + more

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by LJT, Apr 3, 2002.

  1. LJT

    LJT
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    I see the AE100 is becoming a bit like the pioneer400 amp ten years ago!
    Anyhow I have several questions if any one would oblige me. I've been using the phillips hopper SV10 plus iScan pro for two years now and have been contemplating an upgrade for well over several months. I liked the simm (seleco) range a) for image quality b)lamp life c) sealed optics. Now the Sim is a bit pricey for even though its come down a bit.
    I figure that the projector scene is coming on a pace now so really I'm looking for a temporary solution until sealed optics are the norm.

    So here are my questions


    1) How does the AE100 compare to the Hopper SV10
    2) Will the AE100 work with the iScan pro
    3) Are the optics/lcd panels accessable for cleaning

    I realise we are talking about low cost budget projectors

    Thanks Lawrence
     
  2. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Lawrence, You may be waiting a long while.

    I don't think sealed optics will become standard on projectors. It is very expensive to do (hence the price of the Sim products) and most customers don't appreciate the value of it until they've had to pay for the panels to be cleaned.

    Regards
     
  3. LJT

    LJT
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    So Chris , it would seem that there is a naivety with projector purchasers. They are literally being 'taken to the cleaners'.
    More seriously. Surely the fact that Simm/Seleco are prepared to push their prices up and become increasingly less competitive, shows that they feel it is an issue that punter's take seriously.
    I'm confident that competitive forces will always prevail, and this feature will be addressed and offered as a sales feature.
     
  4. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Lawrence,
    Yes, Sim2 and Owl do take this feature seriously. But remember, Sim2 is a niche brand selling a specialised range of home cinema oriented products via a trained dealer network. What this all means is that the dealers should be able to explain the importance of sealed optics (and the other features) and sell those benefits to the customer.

    In general, the projector market doesn't work like this. It's all about whose got the best "go faster" stripes or the lowest price.

    Your faith in market forces is reassuring, but you are missing the "Joe Public" factor. Your perspective as an experienced user gives you an edge over most buyers. You know what's important in both the short and long term.

    I would love to see projectors become dust proof, but I know that most folk buy features they can understand: brighter, lighter, cheaper, more digital features etc. Service and maintenance costs are often overlooked. The huge numbers of projectors sold off the page or via the internet is testament to that fact.

    Regards
     
  5. Kramer

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    Chris,

    I don't want to come across argumentative here, but I must take issue with one of your assertions:

    Just because one buys for the "cheapest" price through the internet doesn't mean that one is not well versed in the technology available & the related service issues etc...

    I'm sure many forum regulars here are quite "expert" in the projector field. It's quite easy to do plenty of research on a particular model, & when satisfied with all the issues involved, make a purchase. Unfortunately, at present, the best price to be found is through internet retailers.

    Agreed, there's lots of "box shifting" also, but it is this that allows the more "advanced" buyer get what he/she wants for a better price.

    It's not without it's pitfalls however:(

    But I do agree with the general point of your post:D
     
  6. LJT

    LJT
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    Chris and all. I won't mention the dust free optics again on this subject my lips are sealed (unlike the majority of projectors out there)' but Chris how about the my other question.


    As you are a Philips employee (Dealer Account Manager - N.England & Scotland Philips PC Peripherals) how do you rate the AE100 against the hopper SV10.
     
  7. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Kramer,
    I’m glad you agree, but I’m sorry I wasn't clear in some of what I was trying to say. I apologize and I'll try to rephrase...

    I hope you'll agree that those who frequent this and the other home cinema (HC) forums (and those who read the mags) are, in general, better informed about home cinema products than the rest of the general population.

    The time and effort these people spend in researching products often reveals information not readily apparent in manufacturers advertising material. A good example would be the merits of a dust proof projector design or the cost benefits of a long lamp life.

    Armed with this wealth of extra knowledge the true home cinema enthusiast can make a well-informed buying decision.

    Now look outside this group of well-informed enthusiasts. Who have you got? The answer is the general public - or Joe Public as I referred to them.

    These people probably don't read HC mags on a regular basis or follow the discussions in the forums with much interest. They may not visit specialist HC dealers or even know they exist.

    Where do they see products? In some cases, it will be the large retail sheds, or they'll see adverts in the non-specialist press like FHM or T3. Perhaps the local pub has just had a projector installed so that sparks the idea. Maybe their company uses a projector for presentations or they've seen something in the catalogue from an office stationery company.

    My point is that there is a whole world of projection beyond the cosy confines of the specialist HC market, and the products sold to it are generally pushed on the basis of brightness, weight, cost and features.

    If you are a regular on this forum, you will have seen countless posts from new members who come to projection from precisely this background. I’ll paraphrase “I’m considering a XYZ projector, is 1500 ANSI lumens enough?” Those who post questions here are starting the process of research. They are asking the most intelligent questions they can based on the information they’ve seen in printed ads and off the net. This is usually ANSI lumens, resolution, size, weight and price. Hardly the best set of data upon which to base a substantial purchase, would you agree? But how many people don’t get this far? But how many simply buy the latest special offer because it’s a bit brighter or it comes with a free screen? I would suggest that more projectors are sold this way than through the specialist channels.

    For proof of this simply look at the increasing numbers of business projectors which now have component inputs and a 16:9 mode. The IT industry is well established. Projectors are sold on brightness, size, weight and price. Some IT projector manufacturers with little interest in the specialist HC market are cashing in on the boom in home projection. But of course this is going to happen in a free market.

    Lawrence’s assertion was that projector manufacturers would have to make their products dust free because of free market economics. My view is that this will not happen.

    The largest volume market is what drives the direction of product development unless a commercial decision is made to develop a niche solution (e.g. Plus Piano, Panasonic AE100 etc). The IT market is the driving force behind the R&D of most mass-market projector companies. This market is tuned to sell on brightness, size, resolution and price. A projector sold for business use may be replaced in two years time. It will be used in less than ideal lighting condition (so black level is unimportant) and it will be rarely used with any sort of quality video signal. No one really notices if there is a little dust on the panels or there is a dead pixel as long as it does the job.

    The Home Cinema market is far more demanding. Dead pixels and dust are anathema. There are products that meet these stringent requirements, but the prices are higher because these are niche solutions. Whilst HC market continues to buy and use business oriented projectors in the home there is little incentive for manufacturers to change.

    Regards
     
  8. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Lawrence, I can't make a direct comparison because the SV10 is from before my time with Philips, so I haven't used one.

    Given the pace of projector development over the last two years, and the fact that Hopper SV10 is a business product compared to the Panasonic which is designed for video, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pana was better. In fact, I would be disappointed if it wasn't!

    Regards
     
  9. LJT

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    Chris,thanks anyway. But how does it compare to the 'munroe'
     
  10. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Lawrence, If you're asking how the SV10 compares to the Munroe I can't answer that directly, other than to say that Monroe's video performance comfortably betters our £3500 business projector which is already pretty good in its own right.

    Monroe vs AE100. I'm looking forward to doing that shootout myself. Soon, I hope.

    I was with a retailer today (dem'ing the Monroe) who said they prefered it over the Pana.

    I have also done three shootouts against the Sony HS1 - IMO no contest. All staff at the three dealers concern also agreed.

    Has anybody done a HS1 vs AE100 shootout?

    Regards
     

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