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AE100, FL-D filter, DVD source (not HTPC)

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by CSGardner, Aug 13, 2002.

  1. CSGardner

    CSGardner
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    As per subject, I'm interested in comments from those using the following:
    - Flourscent Day filter
    - Standard DVD player (h/w) source. (Preferably, without any source colour tweeks.)
    - connecting via COMPONENT or VGA

    In particular, I'd like to know settings you use - and are happy(?) with. Before I get flamed, yes I have searched the archives (here and AVSforums) .. so have some results (particularly Li On's settings - which I really don't like (contrast is so high that all whites get crushed)). I've also owned Video Essentials for years, which I find great for BRIGHTNESS and CONTRAST, but I never liked for setting the Colour/Tint (Tint is OK, but Colour always gets set too high for my liking ).

    I've owned the AE100 + and HOYA HMC FL-D filter for about 5 months .. but have only just tried using the FL-D. My thoery was to get everything set up, and happy without the filter .. and then see what improvement it gave. (Obviously, I then forgot I had it, and left it in the box for 5 months).

    My settings BEFORE the filter:

    DVD - IScan - progressive scan VGA input:
    Bri +3 ; Contr +13 ; Mode normal ; colour temp normal ; R 0 ; G 0 ; B -2

    Overall, very happy with colours.

    My settings AFTER the filter:

    DVD - IScan - progressive scan VGA input:
    Bri +3 ; Contr +15 ; Mode normal ; colour temp normal ; R -3 ; G -14 ; B +8
    DVD - IScan - progressive scan COMPONENT input:
    Bri +3 ; Contr +15 ; Mode normal ; colour temp normal ; Colour - 12 ; Tint -10

    Overall, all shades of brown and pinks are slightly too YELLOW (e.g. a wooden desk in light brown would look almost yellow; most peple look like they've had jaundice ...).

    For those interested, Li Ons most recent settings (as posted in June on AVS) are:
    Panasonic DVD source (bri +5(0,0,+15); col -2(-7,0,+7); gamma +5(0,0,+5)
    IScan to VGA input
    Bri -8 ; Contr +15 ; Mode normal ; colour temp warm; R +8 ; G -6 ; B +16

    The obvious answer is to remove the filter ! .. but before I do that, Id be delighted to try other recommended settings (particularly if you know how to reduce yellow).

    Thanks for any info,
    Chas
     
  2. CSGardner

    CSGardner
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    p.s. I'll commit to putting the posted settings (if any !) into a spreadsheet, and uploading it as a resource.
    Chas
     
  3. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Try upping blue : also warm looks the closest to 6500K on mine ( I've also pushed the red up a fair bit on mine).

    Picking up an FLD later today will let you know my finding.
     
  4. CSGardner

    CSGardner
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    Mr D - Thanks. I'll try your sugguestions - I've not spent more than 5 seconds on WARM setting before .. so I'll have a go at that in more detail.
    I will indeed be interested in your findings with the FL-D

    Chas
     
  5. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    The idea behind the filter is that the lamp itself has an overall greenish cast. ( from observation this is definitely so) The addition of the filter knocks back the green and blue and hopefully preserves the red level ( which the lamp lacks) as much as possible.

    Then you crank up the blue and green to get your overall balance back and raise up the whitepoint but ( and this is the point) you now have a lower black level by virtue of the filter and you go for an FLD or magenta coloured one because you know you have bags of green gain left over to adequately correct for the colour of the filter. (

    Chances are you won't be able to get the whitepoint back to where it was originally but human eyeballs being what they are you should notice the lowering of the black point more than the white point hence better percieved contrast range. You might also have to drop red as these things are never ideally accurate.

    Course you might find that the panny just starts clippign above a certain point but we'll find that out soon enough!
     
  6. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Heres my finding : from memory.

    taped the filter on using a bit of masking tape : later I'll sort out something prettier. Its nice and non-reflective seems good quality.

    After filtering I recalibrated the projector using Video essentials ( I don't like Avia as its too long winded and I have a fear of polo necks)

    setting is on warm , normal, no sharpness , figures may be approximate.

    Definite drop in black level. original white level could be regained no problem by notching up the contrast.
    Picture looks overly magenta ( understandable). Maxed out blue level . Green initially maxed out too . The picture is now going back to its greenish cast. Initially I then upped the red a fair bit ( its not maxed only about 16 I think) but then I came back on it slightly and dropped green just a bit as I felt the picture needed a spot of magenta rather than red.

    Good things: Colour seems more accurate initially although this has some caveats. Flesh tones look better : bit more bloody. Black does look lower and its not clipping ( seems to be more of a delineation between black and intensitie just above will need to have a fiddle with this in case its a gamma issue).

    Bad things: There is some non-linearity in the grayscale. Low levels are fairly neutral but there is a slight tendancy towards red in the midtones and going back more neutral in the whites teeniest bit magenta maybe. I suspect panasonic have deliberately built in this red hump to compensate for the overall greenish cast of the lamp.

    With regard to the contrast range I would say its been beneficial: Looking at VE as reference with the guy running towards the camera and the cop car behind him there is more obvious detail in the dark shadowed areas inside his coat than previously.

    Flesh tones now look more neutral ie not as greenish but if anything they look a little too neutral: I found I was able to tweak up the saturation on my HTPC and produce more pleasing colours. ( the colour still shows reasonable accuracy on colour bars) additionally I found I could drop brightness slightly on the projector and bring out details in the black that previously would have been crushed. looking at the snell and wilcox test pattern the black clip check box showed completely as black but dropping the brightness disclosed it correctly so it does seem that the contrast range has improved post filter.

    No problems with posterisation.
    I did not find the filter was any benefit to the screen door but it didn't worsen things either.

    I'll get used to the filter for a bit and report back.

    Maybe I can correct for the red hump in the HTPC by tweaking curves.

    later
     
  7. CSGardner

    CSGardner
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    Thanks for the guidance. Much to the irritation of my wife, I spent 3 hours fiddling with the setting slast night.

    I still couldn't get close to something I liked yet when using WARM (I couldn't dial out the Yellow). Perhaps my screen is too white for the warm setting ? - though its only a simple 1.0gain matt white. Or maybe its difference in source (I use a h/w Toshiba DVD player).

    Going back to NORMAL temp, with Filter in place, I homed in on the folowing:

    Bri +3 ; Contr +15 ;
    Red +11 (perhaps as low as +9 when trying to remove magenta tinge from blue sky)
    Green + 15 (perhaps as high as +17 when trying to reduce yellow tinge from browns)
    Blue +27

    Your advice on really pumping up the BLUE was very helpful.

    Swapping filter ON/OFF (and changing settings accordingly) showed that overall contrast range does appear improved - certainly BLACKS and near black are better .. though I still see a very slight magenta in whites.
    I think I need to live with the filter for a while, and see if my eyes just accept it.

    Once I get happy with the RGB settings (not quite there yet), I'll work on the COMPONENT connection settings - which will probably be interest to more people in this forum. Current settings of COMPONENT users would be welcome !

    Thanks again Mr D., and I would be interested to hear of your progress with the filter.

    Chas
     
  8. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Notice powerstrip has the option of modifying the gamma and black and white points on individual RGB curves and more importantly has a check button to force them onto overlay settings: this might work will give it a bash.
     
  9. johnny

    johnny
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    sony 735 via component:

    mode = cinema
    temp = warm
    sharpness = 0
    brightness -15
    contrast = +15
    tint = 0

    I havent got avia or VE but have used the THX calibration on T2

    projecting 2meter wide image onto white painted wall atm

    picture looks pretty good to me (except T2 UE which looks awful!)
     
  10. Kramer

    Kramer
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    My R1 T2 UE looks very good.

    Why is everyone using either "normal" or "cinema" settings?

    I'm using "dynamic" & for me it's a way better setting using the PC.

    Calibrated using Ultimate DVD Platinum (didn't like) & then with Avia.

    Way better results now.
     
  11. CSGardner

    CSGardner
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    I quickly discountd Dynamic, as it appeared to exagerate colours - i.e. too bold / bright. To be honest, I didn't spend much time fiddling around when in Dynamic, as I hadn't liked what I saw.

    If I can't find a balance when using normal, perhaps I'll give it a go.

    chas
     
  12. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Dynamic clipped my blacks.
    The force colour correction settings for overlay option in powerstrip didn't work by the way .
     
  13. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I watched a bit of Jaws the other night and felt that the blues were a bit lacking although the opening menu seemed very blue and well saturated(blue is already maxed on my system).

    Then I watched a bit of deep blue see and it was fine so maybe I was just noticing the 70s filmstock in Jaws.
    Watched Saving Private Ryan and it looked great ( not exactly a normal looking film I grant you)

    Then I watched a bit of singing in the rain and whilst its technicolour and the recent restoration has gone a bit mad on the colour if you ask me it had very bright good looking blues.

    Again looking at colour bars on VE shows it to be if anything more accurate than before.

    Need to live with it for a while and I'll run Avia through it (menu structure annoys me though)
     

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