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Ae td10m 2 way

Discussion in 'DIY Speaker & Subwoofer Building' started by jonone, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. jonone

    jonone
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    Musing over building a 2 way at the minute,I would like somthing that I can give it the beans and it doesn't all go to sh*t, so I suppose one of my first questions is why do most average speakers "harden" when you really turn them up? Is it distortion? is it the amps distorting or the the drivers reaching there limits? Or both?(I assume it's both) Or your ears?
    I really like my speakers and I'm going to keep them but would like to build some "give it the beans speakers" my caveat being they can't be to big and need to be active 2 way stand mounts.

    Music is the priority.

    I started to look at the td10m with a tpl-150h like the vapour arcus, but it's way to tall domesticity for me, the wave guide is nearly 10"s! Plus digging deeper on the net reveals people suggesting a 1.8khz crossover because of a resonance and really 2khz is optimum, this rules out using it with a td10m
    So a smaller option that could be crossed lower is a td10m with seos10 and Bms 4550 like in this thread.TD10M and SEOS10/BMS 4550 build questions. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
    Some sensible comments made and looks like a good build, I would need a lot of help as I haven't got a clue! :D

    He uses 1.15 cubic feet for the driver and puts the seos in a separate chamber, but the seos can go in the same chamber right? I'm trying to keep the box size as small as possible, I would like to use a slot port as again I think this would make it more compact.

    I would probably use a minidsp 250w plate amp for ease or maybe a 400w hypex for more power but I'm familiar with mini dsp products.
    One thing I can't understand is how you limit the 250w to 80w for the Bms on the minidsp I think you can use the compressor but the guide on the compressor section is not clear?

    First of all I need to get a speaker modelling program for Mac!

    Anyone with a seosBms /Td setup mind giving me a demo? To help me sway of the fence :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  2. markymiles

    markymiles
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    If I could go back in time I would do exactly what you're doing. Will watch this thread with interest.

    I don't think it matters what you do with the WG/CD combo as they are sealed so shouldn't be affected by in/out of a box. I would definitely go slot port too as I think they look nicer.

    Have you seen Matt's thread. He ended up with one size up on both, SEOS12 and TD12M with the BMS4550. Worth a read.

    AE TD10H/BMS4550/SEOS10 Build
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  3. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    Pick your amp carefully if you are running active into a CD, the sensitivity means v v little voltage is required to deafen you hence noise floor is a real issue. Alternatively you have to pad the cd down or the hypex amps can be modded to reduce their gain. ie a compressor is not relevant here, it is just a gain structure question.

    I haven't heard an AMT but afaik Be CDs are required to get close to the top end, that gets expensive quickly though.

    Have you considered using an 8 instead of a 10 with the tpl to save a few inches?

    Any sub involved here?
     
  4. jonone

    jonone
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    Have seen the thread and would love todo a seos12 td12, john says the 12s better too.
    But if I have any chance of this making it to my living room it needs to be smaller!
     
  5. jonone

    jonone
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    Makes sense, is there a way to limit the power on the mini dsp amps? could I just not use the gain structure in mini dsp?

    What's a be cd? I like expensive.

    A td8 with tplh is 18" seos 10 and td10 is 16"......
    Would be interesting to see where the td8 can be crossed, I would also like to feel the effects of having a big driver in the midband, I have a typical 6" at the mo.

    I have stereo td15h+ below my mains and a av15h nearfield.
     
  6. jonone

    jonone
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    Is the hypex a mod? Or somthing hypex can do?
    Any links.
     
  7. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    beryllium

    it's a question of the noise floor, most people report that minidsp products don't have that low a noise floor so you have to pad them down.

    details for UCD in https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/an_wp/AN_Voltage_gain_hypex_modules.pdf

    IIRC you can do similar for ncore, probably diya is the best place to look for details

    why do you need to port it if you're crossing to subs?
     
  8. neo_2009

    neo_2009
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    What capacitor do you recommend to Pad down the BMS 4550?
     
  9. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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  10. neo_2009

    neo_2009
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    Thanks for the resource, i will only know how much i need after measuring the drivers :)
     
  11. jonone

    jonone
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    Any berl
    any beryllium drivers recommend?

    This is what john said on a thread when people were discussing sealed or ported for td12m.

    "One of the keys to wider bandwidth is to keep excursion limited. A vented box will keep excursion down much better than a sealed box will for the same SPL levels. A box about 1.25cf tuned around 60hz will give an F3 a little under 70Hz. With as much as 600w the excursion will be kept under the 6mm Xmax. That will give you levels up around 125dB. With input around 100W the output levels reach around 117dB with only around 2.3mm excursion. The combination of the vented system keeping both excursion and power requirements down is significant in lowering distortion"

    Thanks for the hypex link, a bit above my head! I'll have to look into it more.
    I suppose different amps for mod and tweeter is easiest but I would like to use a plate amp.
     
  12. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    what levels do you actually listen at?
     
  13. jonone

    jonone
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    To be honest low levels most of the time, but i would like a small penis show speaker.
     
  14. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    naturally :)

    my point is not "don't build such a speaker", it is that the SPL levels he is talking about are basically ear splitting in the home. Take a TD10M for example, put it in 30L and give it 20V (50W at 8ohm) and add an LR2 at 80Hz. Peak displacement is about 1.5mm at 75Hz and you've got 110dB from 300Hz up, this means probably 100dB once you take into account baffle step and the room and if you assume 20dB peaks on music then that means 80dB average level. No port in sight, not much power required.

    If you're crossing this to a sub then I don't see how a port is relevant as you'll still get substantial excursion in the 100-200Hz range so any midrange strain from the excursion will still occur.
     
  15. jonone

    jonone
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    Sure. :)
    I'm interested in the geddes/parham school of thought using multiple subs but also running your speakers full range, so I would like a speaker that can potentially play lower to try the method later on.

    Although to be honest I've tried the technique in my current room but because of space constraints the stereo subs have to below the mains not in a different 3D space like Wayne's technique requires.
    This means the response is not as good as it potentially could be.
    So yesterday I started to implement a 80hz crossover on the mains, the response doesn't seem worse then if the mains are run full range but obviously it relieves them of bass.

    Been musing your suggestion of a td8m but maybe with a tpl-150 non horn which is only 6"s high, that would probably be even more realistic in my room.
     
  16. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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  17. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    using the M full range seems like quite a compromise to me
     
  18. jonone

    jonone
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    Yeah......:thumbsdow

    My test song for bass is minimal animal by krumelur, it's not really my cup of tea although it's quite funny in a "saxo" kind of way, it has proper 20hz material, quite Nuts! :)

    The cone excursion on my mains run full range is actually a bit worrying o_O
    With the shallow 12db 80hz crossover they hardly move.
     
  19. neo_2009

    neo_2009
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  20. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Did you get anywhere with this??

    Now I've sold my speakers I am considering going down this route, just curious.

    Also I played the track mentioned the other day, proper dance bass tune :smashin:.
     

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