Question Advices on 5.1 set + receiver

Jonaz

Novice Member
Hello everyone,

I'm coming to you in order to have a few advices on upgrading my sound system since I've moved to a new house.
I'm currently equipped with a Panasonic OLED TV and a Yamaha YSP-2700 soundbar + subwoofer.

About the room: the Tv/audio system is located in the living room which is part of a rectangle room of 40 m²/430 sq feet.
My sofa is about 3 m/10 ft from my TV and the speakers are gonna be right behind it.

enceintes.jpg

(blue = speakers ; red = subwoofer)​
Use: 75% series/movies and 25% music.

Wife's requirements: must be "pretty" and "not too big", so I was thinking that maybe mounting the rear speaker on the wall was a good idea in order to avoid stands.

Budget 5000€ (6000 USD)



My first question is about a vinyl turntables. I wanted to place in the other part of the big room, at a distance of 6 m / 20 ft from the future AV. To avoid cables, I thought a Bluetooth turntable would be a good option. The signal might be analogical anymore but with BT aptX and the fact that my setup isn't totally audio-oriented with a dedicated AV and speakers, what are your thoughts about that ?
There are two turntables that caught my attention:
  • Pro-Ject Essential 3 BT
  • Elipson Chroma 400 BT
These two have the same stylus (Ortofon OM-10E) and both are belt driven. The Pro-Ject is a few years old and cheaper whereas the Elipson is quite new but 150€ more expensive, so a 30% gap.



Now back to the speakers.
I've read a few reviews about the Monitor Audio sets, that are quite interesting with their rear "surround" speakers: Surround Speakers | Hi-Fi | Monitor Audio
The Silver 200 set includes: Silver 200 floorstanding speakers + Silver C150 center speaker + Silver FX surround rear speakers. Price is 2500€ in my country.
I can also have the Silver 300 set, which is the same but with the upgraded Silver 300 floorstanding speakers, for 3000€.

The design of the rear speakers is quite flat but is it a good choice considering my sofa will be placed in between ? I'm therefore not taking advantage of the sound coming from the outside angle.

My room isn't too big so wouldn't be the 300 a bit oversized ?

For the AV I was considering spending about 1000€ / 1200 USD maximum, same for the subwoofer.
What sub would you pair it with ? (wife's requirements: must be not too big and "pretty")
Same question for the AV, I've read reviews recommending warm sounding units.



Well that's pretty much it. I'm open to any other suggestion, for the turntable or the speakers
Thanks a lot for your answers !

EDIT: I also found that Dali makes flat rear speakers, with sound only coming from the front and not 3 sides. The Dali Oberon 7 set (comes with the Vokal center and the flat rears) costs 1700€ so a bit cheaper than the MA Silver 200.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hello. What is the box with X thing on the right side surround speaker? I assume it´s lower than the speaker mounted. So if you were to mount FX speakers roughly 2feet higher from seated ear height there wouldn´t be anything in between the speaker and the side wall? One issue is there is no side wall for the left speaker to bounce from assuming the room opens up to other space. Image below shows how they work in bipole mode.

hf8a.gif



300 aren´t oversized, they are actually quite compact floorstanders and better especially for music listening due to having dedicated midrange drivers. Ideally you would pick the larger C350 center channel with them cause they share same drivers and the better 3-way vertically aligned drivers at middle! For movies center channel is one of the most active speaker in your system, pushing out 60-70% so if you are asking would this model be worth over C150 then yes definitely! Technically much better and in real life also from who has heard both. Show wife and ask what she thinks.

You are buying av-receiver in worst time of year, the prices are highest atm and there is not many competitors yet either as the virus has done damage to many brands. Yamaha, Onkyo/Pioneer has new models coming at June-August, for Yammy possibly in spring but no word yet. Marantz SR6015 could be great lower cost option for both movies/music while offering good performance and features/future proofing. Anthem MRX540 would be more expensive step up with better room correction, but also not as plug&play as Denon/Marantz so certain learning curve to get the most out of it. I would recommend to buy the speakers and receiver from same shop so you get better package price! Don´t pay list prices (ask deals from as many dealers as you can!) and don´t buy expensive "big name" speaker wires!

For a cost effective quality speaker wire DCSk below. For HDMI cables look Amazon Basics Hdmi cables as you need short ones.
Amazon product
For a sub cable this will do, pick correct length.
Amazon product
For subwoofer you would be eyeing something good looking to keep wife happy so Arendal from Norway would be great option. The first difference you notice is the side firing driver, but the cabinets are narrower than usually, you need to leave about 10cm space to side wall. Either 1961 range the 1S or 1V (more ideal) or if you have still budget left then the new 1723 1S. When you see the models and prices press "Read More" and then scroll it down and press Tech Specs so you see the dimensions of each. You have to basically stick with the model that your wife sees small enough. It won´t necessarily be optimal cause you have quite large open space. Ideally you would pick larger vented cabinet (1961 1V or 1723 1V) but i fear they are bit too large boxes. You have to do mock up from cardboard if possible, that is much cheaper option for wife to understand the size than to return the sub and lose money..


If you want to buy locally then SVS SB3000 might still fit your budget depending which kind of deal you are getting for the speakers + receiver. Piano gloss black/white costs 100€ extra over black oak. SB2000 Pro is alternative and similar to Arendal 1961 1S for lower price. Naturally the PB models from SVS would be more ideal in your space at least for movies in mind, but i doubt your wife would let you pick the PB2000 Pro even.



PS. From Dali you would look the Opticon range which would be more in line with MA Silver range. Dali Opticon is on sale now as there is Opticon mk2 out. They have LCR on-wall speakers but not cheap although you could mix Opticon 6 & Vokal for LCR (front three) and cheaper Oberon On-Wall surrounds!

Focal speaker brand is from France and i was suprised you didn´t mention it. But probably doesn´t have wall mountable slimmer surround speakers.
 
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Jonaz

Novice Member
Hi,

Thanks for your input !

Hello. What is the box with X thing on the right side surround speaker?

It is a coat storage that opens from the entry on the other side of the wall.

press on the "click to expand" to see 3 pictures

Unfortunately I can't see the pictures you attached. Opening them in a new tab also gives me an error message ("you do not have permission to view this page or perform this action).

Marantz SR6015 could be great lower cost option for both movies/music while offering good performance and features/future proofing. Anthem MRX540 would be more expensive step up with better room correction, but also not as plug&play as Denon/Marantz so certain learning curve to get the most out of it

Ideally something easy to use would be perfect. Do you recommend to wait a few months to get better deals ?

Arendal from Norway would be great option

It does seems great, it seems there are no retailers in France but it can be ordered online (800€ for the 1961 1S). How does it compares to SVS ?
There aren't many reviews online.
Any alternative to SVS also ?

Focal speaker brand is from France and i was suprised you didn´t mention it. But probably doesn´t have wall mountable slimmer surround speakers.

I actually haven't thought about Focal.
They do indeed have flat designed surround speakers in their Chora Line: Chora Surround - Enceinte Surround (although only in black)
I can pack it with Chora 826 floorstanders and the Chora center for 2000€ which makes them the price of the Silver 300. Any point of having 826D floorstanders in a non optimal sound setup like this one ? Your subwoofer recommendation stays the same with Focal ? And, the AV ?

From Dali you would look the Opticon range which would be more in line with MA Silver range. Dali Opticon is on sale now as there is Opticon mk2 out. They have LCR on-wall speakers but not cheap although you could mix Opticon 6 & Vokal for LCR (front three) and cheaper Oberon On-Wall surrounds!

I have a hard time finding these from French shops as they are discontinued. Unfortunately the Opticon MK2 are out of the budget as the 5.0 Opticon 6 set is almost 4000€.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Ah shame, well i deleted them now. Maybe @StefanBFC could share them to you here or via PM. I mean the new "order" where the center channel is top of unit. From front and side view to give better idea of the size.

As for waiting for better prices it might be until summer you start to see them lowering. With Marantz it`s always later than with Denon. They are basically sister companies, but some people finds the Marantz variation more musical so that`s why i linked it for you as you listen music also.

I would think that Arendal 1961 1S and SVS SB2000 Pro perform fairly similar and both sounds very good if you have seen some feedback from owners. The specs (FR, power etc) are almost identical as is the cabinet and driver size. Both are praised by owners and Arendal site has many reviews for it, click "subwoofers" on the right side up and then look for 1961 1S, it´s mentioned in over 10reviews:

SVS SB3000 is step up and more similar to Arendal 1723 1S which both costs more. Both companies have good build quality, long warranty (5year for amps). 1723 has 10year for cab & driver, 1961 has 5years. Below is two 1961 1S:

1-jpg.1295339

I`m not fan of the idea that the speaker has built in atmos modules. Clearly they can work fine if you can move the couch/speakers forward as is needed for the sweet spot. You have to read reviews for the 826D what distance is best for the effects. If you do go with the upfiring Atmos route then you should meet these requirements closely:

For optimal performance, the ceiling should be flat (not angled or vaulted), with a height between 7.5 and 14 feet (2.3 to 4.3 meters), and made of an acoustically reflective material (drywall, plaster, hardwood, or another rigid, non---sound-absorbing material). The ideal ceiling height is between 7.5 and 12 feet (2.3 to 3.66 meters).

You shouldn´t have issues getting the sealed subs mentioned blended with either system. Some have said Focal speakers are bit bright at the top end so perhaps the "warmer" Marantz would be ideal partner then. But seriously if you have hifi shops open there in France, book a demo time for dealer that carries MA and Focal, then listen side by side with hopefully Marantz 6015/7015 receiver! That is lot of money to spend for blind buy. I have heard the earlier Silver floorstanders and they are lovely and easy to listen. But as always there is different tastes. Stereophile has good review for Silver 300. Not your typical WhatHifi review.
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member
Ah shame, well i deleted them now. Maybe @StefanBFC could share them to you here or via PM.

I almost picked the c150 to match the 300's, but definitely glad I picked the c350 after hearing it.
I gambled with the wife and just turned up with the speakers 😂. But she's fine and actually likes the look of them.
They sound really well for music too.

IMG_20210206_172408.jpg
 

Jonaz

Novice Member
Well I'm back from my hifi local shop.
They only had MA bookshelf speakers and told me they wouldn't be getting any floorstanders anytime soon.
They might get a Chora 826 or 826D but unsure when.

Based on my research he advised getting a Yamaha AV if I choose the Focal speakers (on which he cuts me 15%, just like the MA). He said their reputation of being too much in the high is based on old units and not on their current lineup.
The model he showed me (but didn't have in stock) was the RX2A2 (1000€).

For the MA he said Denon and Marantz where indeed good options (5015 or 6015).

For subwoofers, he said I could go with REL (T5i for space, ideally T7i) but the reviews I find online are rather mixed between good and overrated/overpriced.
I mentioned SVS but he said "why not but it's big big big".

Thanks Stefan, it does look good in white, the setup is clean !
I can see you use Bronze rear speaker. Was it a question of budget, or did you find they were enough compared to the silvers ?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Well I'm back from my hifi local shop.
They only had MA bookshelf speakers and told me they wouldn't be getting any floorstanders anytime soon.
They might get a Chora 826 or 826D but unsure when.

Based on my research he advised getting a Yamaha AV if I choose the Focal speakers (on which he cuts me 15%, just like the MA). He said their reputation of being too much in the high is based on old units and not on their current lineup.
The model he showed me (but didn't have in stock) was the RX2A2 (1000€).

For the MA he said Denon and Marantz where indeed good options (5015 or 6015).

For subwoofers, he said I could go with REL (T5i for space, ideally T7i) but the reviews I find online are rather mixed between good and overrated/overpriced.
I mentioned SVS but he said "why not but it's big big big".

Thanks Stefan, it does look good in white, the setup is clean !
I can see you use Bronze rear speaker. Was it a question of budget, or did you find they were enough compared to the silvers ?

Did you listen bookshelf versions of both brands? It would have given you good idea about the sound signature of each brands. Look for other dealer if there is who has those in stock.

There is no reason why you shouldn´t be able to partner D&M product with the Focals too. The RX-A2A isn´t even same level to SR6015 / X3700H, it`s basically same machine as RX-V6A with very small existent changes. The upcoming model RX-A4A will be more similar competitor apart from being 7.2 model. But it comes near the summer.

Forget the tiny REL woofers! You can spend your money better with Arendal and SVS with your usage being series/movies mostly and the larger tower models likely sound great on their own for music! The REL woofers are ideal for smaller spaces and they are toward hifi systems with small size factor and nice finish (high wife acceptance factor), but you pay for it. For movies they won´t perform similar as the models i linked. Also shorter amp warranty with REL.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Your Room/Room layout means ‘surround sound’ is hugely compromised.

Go listen to a 2.0 or 2.1 system with digital Input for the same budget as you are considering on a hugely compromised surround sound system.

Joe
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@Jonaz regarding the surround channels you can or maybe even should consider MA SoundFrame 2 over the FX speakers at the rear wall. It has pivoting tweeters which you can aim more toward the listeners, while FX would shoots away at the other side where there isn´t wall. Other option is cheaper standmount speaker or even some smaller satellite type speakers on-wall (MA Radius 90 / Mass sats) so you wouldn´t be spending too much for them in that case. Or you can consider 3.1 system too, so front three and sub, but it´s quite front based still. People in US who doesn´t have walls uses in-ceiling speakers for surrounds in that scenario and while not optimal, they wouldn´t live without them cause they add enough for the experience! There is clear benefits for av-receiver over 2ch stereo amps which feels like going back to stoneage. But you can start with 2.0/2.1 and go forward from there, just pick the av-receiver so you won´t be limited later on.
 

Jonaz

Novice Member
Yes Soundframe could be a good bet indeed, but it would have to be the small 3 one so I can put one on each side, because I have a glass window in the wall above my sofa.
I don't know what the proper translation in english is so here's an example: https://latelier-dumarais.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/l-atelier-du-marais-creation-verriere2.jpg

Since you talked about Dali, their MK2 line also has the LCR "flat" speaker that can be mounted on the wall, and is also one directional.
They only make one type of center speaker (Vokal MK2) that seems smaller than the Silver C350 though.
The Opticon 6 MK2 seems alike the Silver 300.

Plenty of possibility but at least thanks to you I have a more precise idea of what can be done.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yes Soundframe could be a good bet indeed, but it would have to be the small 3 one so I can put one on each side, because I have a glass window in the wall above my sofa.
I don't know what the proper translation in english is so here's an example: https://latelier-dumarais.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/l-atelier-du-marais-creation-verriere2.jpg

Since you talked about Dali, their MK2 line also has the LCR "flat" speaker that can be mounted on the wall, and is also one directional.
They only make one type of center speaker (Vokal MK2) that seems smaller than the Silver C350 though.
The Opticon 6 MK2 seems alike the Silver 300.

Plenty of possibility but at least thanks to you I have a more precise idea of what can be done.

But the picture you posted shows that you don´t have side wall at the left side close by, it`s very far away. Other option would be to have in-ceiling speakers as surround channels slightly behind the listeners at ceiling. Not the most optimal scenario, but very popular when there is no walls available / open space. Clean install also.

The Opticon LCR can be used as center channel, the dual tweeter can be turned so the dispersion is optimal when it`s mounted horizontally. LCR= left/center/right.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Not my home, just an example of what I meant, I do have walls on each side ;)

Can you take picture from where your tv is toward couch?! Post it here and delete it afterwards if you don´t want to keep it here. You can also send it through PM. Would be nice to see cause the 1st post of yours room plan doesn´t show side wall close by. It`s basically at the other end.
 

Jonaz

Novice Member
Here are 3D renders of the room that shows the exact layout with the right proportions.
The back wall is actually currently being constructed, which is why I'm prospecting now, but it will look like this:

1.jpg
2.jpg
 

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