Advice - upgrade my Sony STR-DN1080?

darrenhaken

Active Member
I've recently upgraded my LCR speaker system to Dali Opticon 6 and Opticon Vokal MK2s. I also have a BK Sub and Tannoy Mercury rears.
I'll be upgrading the rears to Dali Opticon On-Walls/Silver FX's soon.

During the process, each person I spoke to recommended that I really need to think about upgrading my AV receiver for the Opticons to sing.
I have started researching options and it would seem something like the Denon AVC-x3700h would be the next step up.

Would this feel like a substantial upgrade to what I use today or would you recommend something else?

In reality, I'll likely buy the x3800h when that comes out but I imagine the sound quality would be similar.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Is the plan to stick with 5.1 / 5.2 for long time? No Atmos added?

There is no word on D&M 2021 models yet so you aren´t probably in rush. X3700H costs 100£ more than last year when it was introduced on June. o_O You can actually get the sister model from Marantz (SR6015) cheaper atm which some members feel is more musical choice if you listen music. Both are still too expensive and i wouldn´t buy anything yet with these silly prices. The new models (2021) if they are introduced likely will have the hdmi 2.1 bug fixed so no external device needed then, although if you aren`t gamer then you don´t need to use the box. D&M products only have one 2.1 input and two 2.1 outputs, Yamaha has more. I would wait until new model introduction and news what has changed, if not enough then opting for old models might be wiser due to heavy price drop and shooting for X4700H or SR7015 straight away!

I would also keep on eye when the Onkyo TX-RZ50 will be introduced in UK. No hdmi 2.1 bug on these, Onkyo usually has beefy amplification in higher range models plus Dirac Live so one of the best room correction on board too. 1100$ what ever that will mean for UK pricing then is unknown at this point. Alternative option would be Pioneer VSX-LX305 or LX505 with class-d amplification and Dirac Live. I bet these ranges will become very popular in Europe.



Yamaha has new models coming out soon, but not sure is the A4A big enough step then and it´s limited to 7.2 / 5.2.2 if that matters with the price of 1300£. The sweet spot in this new range will be A6A no doubt at 2300£ which is probably out of your budget. Typically it has drop quite fast closer to 2k£ and below with the A30x0 model at least. Nothing is certain sadly with the covid and all going on..



Clearly if you want more noticeable step up you need to up your budget. Then you have the likes of new Anthem in play too!


Don`t rush! You have to play the waiting game for now and see the new models and will there be price drops with D&M etc. End of summer earliest i can think of. You got some very nice speakers so better to save up.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
@Gasp3621 this is great advice!

So you're saying it would be best to wait and let the AV market settle after the shortage?

Using the x3700 as an example, would that be a decent step up from where I am now or are you saying I really should be looking at the Anthem?

The x3700 or other receivers in the market are still useful to gauge how much I should really be looking to save (and then spend) for the next step up from where I am now. I imagine the x3800 will have similar sound quality but AV improvements like an HDMI 2.1 bug-free experience.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@Gasp3621 this is great advice!

So you're saying it would be best to wait and let the AV market settle after the shortage?

Using the x3700 as an example, would that be a decent step up from where I am now or are you saying I really should be looking at the Anthem?

The x3700 or other receivers in the market are still useful to gauge how much I should really be looking to save (and then spend) for the next step up from where I am now. I imagine the x3800 will have similar sound quality but AV improvements like an HDMI 2.1 bug-free experience.

It seems D&M won`t be releasing any new models this year so these x700 and SRx015 models will continue until 2022. Let`s see when Yamaha and other brands arrive to shops will there be changes in pricing/deals etc. It should be couple months for Yamaha, Onkyo & Pioneer hopefully.

I forgot that Anthem 540 model has quite underwhelming amplification (for ££) so i wouldn´t personally buy such expensive unit just for the superior room correction, but each to their own. Sadly the next step 740 which is the sweet spot for most people costs lot more.

As i mentioned you don´t really need the HDMI 2.1 yet for anything unless you buy those new gaming consoles perhaps. Even then you could connect them directly to tv if it has 2.1 connections. 8K tv`s are so far away. This was so silly why they had to rush things.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
It seems D&M won`t be releasing any new models this year so these x700 and SRx015 models will continue until 2022. Let`s see when Yamaha and other brands arrive to shops will there be changes in pricing/deals etc. It should be couple months for Yamaha, Onkyo & Pioneer hopefully.

I forgot that Anthem 540 model has quite underwhelming amplification (for ££) so i wouldn´t personally buy such expensive unit just for the superior room correction, but each to their own. Sadly the next step 740 which is the sweet spot for most people costs lot more.

As i mentioned you don´t really need the HDMI 2.1 yet for anything unless you buy those new gaming consoles perhaps. Even then you could connect them directly to tv if it has 2.1 connections. 8K tv`s are so far away. This was so silly why they had to rush things.
When did you find out what D&M aren't releasing any AVRs this year?

So you think wait until 2022 and see what arrives?

I will take a look at the links you've shared for Onkyo and Yamaha btw 👍

I do own a PS5 but there's no way in reality they'll ever be any 120fps content - the ps5 is not powerful enough for that. I don't even think top end PCs could do it.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
When did you find out what D&M aren't releasing any AVRs this year?

So you think wait until 2022 and see what arrives?

I will take a look at the links you've shared for Onkyo and Yamaha btw 👍

I do own a PS5 but there's no way in reality they'll ever be any 120fps content - the ps5 is not powerful enough for that. I don't even think top end PCs could do it.

Just today as i asked from trusted source, but the information was out already it seems..

Those three brands with new models are intresting so you might not have to wait until next year. If you want Denon or Marantz then perhaps later in the year they finally start to drop when they get some competition. I just wouldn´t pay these prices what they are asking now. X4700H comes with Auro 3D and the upmixer i read was highly praised so if you add those height channels then it could be usefull. But yeah i would want to see closer to 1k£ price for that model first. If people don´t like the idea of the external hdmi 2.1 box then perhaps they have to drop the prices more heavily at some point to keep up with competition who doesn´t rely on such box. We shall see. :)
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Just today as i asked from trusted source, but the information was out already it seems..

Those three brands with new models are intresting so you might not have to wait until next year. If you want Denon or Marantz then perhaps later in the year they finally start to drop when they get some competition. I just wouldn´t pay these prices what they are asking now. X4700H comes with Auro 3D and the upmixer i read was highly praised so if you add those height channels then it could be usefull. But yeah i would want to see closer to 1k£ price for that model first. If people don´t like the idea of the external hdmi 2.1 box then perhaps they have to drop the prices more heavily at some point to keep up with competition who doesn´t rely on such box. We shall see. :)
That's good to know then! Crazy times to live in.

I'll take a look at Onkyo and Yamaha then. I hadn't researched them quite as much.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
@Gasp3621 - quick update on this thread.
A friend of mine has offered/wants to buy my Sony STR-DN1080 for £400 which definitely simplifies buying a new receiver..

My local RS have an open box Denon 3700 for £850 which is tempting.

This leads me to debate whether to upgrade to it or hold off until 2022 when the new receivers come out. Alternatively I could wait to look at the Onkyo you posted at the start.

Do you think I'd see a SQ improvement with the Denon?

I was interested in it for the calibration but also for the preouts. I've just bought an AMP switcher to use a stereo amp but I could return it and opt for the Denon instead.

Decisions decisions...

I'd appreciate some input, also from anyone else.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Forgot to mention I do have a PS5 - I'm still sceptical the new consoles will realistically have many games at all running at 120 though.

I don't even think a top end spec PC could do 4k/120 for almost any game.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@Gasp3621 - quick update on this thread.
A friend of mine has offered/wants to buy my Sony STR-DN1080 for £400 which definitely simplifies buying a new receiver..

My local RS have an open box Denon 3700 for £850 which is tempting.

This leads me to debate whether to upgrade to it or hold off until 2022 when the new receivers come out. Alternatively I could wait to look at the Onkyo you posted at the start.

Do you think I'd see a SQ improvement with the Denon?

I was interested in it for the calibration but also for the preouts. I've just bought an AMP switcher to use a stereo amp but I could return it and opt for the Denon instead.

Decisions decisions...

I'd appreciate some input, also from anyone else.

Yes the price is quite good on Denon and i would assume it sounding better to some degree when setup correctly. That also includes your subwoofers as i don´t think the Sony does much for them other than setting levels and distance=delay. Preouts for stereo/poweramp, 11.2 (7.2.4) processing also great to have. If you are fine just having one 8k input and two outputs then why not!

You really are getting good price from your Sony, i mean it`s 2017 model so 450£ to get Denon is not much and personally i would do it if more expensive receiver isn´t in the cards.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Yes the price is quite good on Denon and i would assume it sounding better to some degree when setup correctly. That also includes your subwoofers as i don´t think the Sony does much for them other than setting levels and distance=delay. Preouts for stereo/poweramp, 11.2 (7.2.4) processing also great to have. If you are fine just having one 8k input and two outputs then why not!

You really are getting good price from your Sony, i mean it`s 2017 model so 450£ to get Denon is quite good deal and personally i would do it.
Thanks that's handy.

RS were saying I should notice quite a big jump in SQ as the Denon is a much higher quality receiver. I assume they are being generous on their assessment 🤣?.

What else would the Denon do?

At the moment I only have the new for one 2.1 input but I imagine over the years that will change - I reckon in 3/4 years I'll get an Xbox as well. Although I faced the same issue when 4k came along with my previous receiver and I just connected the hdmi direct to the TV and then optical out for audio to the receiver.

You've sold me, I'll probably phone them this morning.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks that's handy.

RS were saying I should notice quite a big jump in SQ as the Denon is a much higher quality receiver. I assume they are being generous on their assessment 🤣?.

What else would the Denon do?

At the moment I only have the new for one 2.1 input but I imagine over the years that will change - I reckon in 3/4 years I'll get an Xbox as well. Although I faced the same issue when 4k came along with my previous receiver and I just connected the hdmi direct to the TV and then optical out for audio to the receiver.

You've sold me, I'll probably phone them this morning.

Well there is the Audussey Dynamic EQ (loudness) which lot of people loves when not blasting loud. Also Audussey Dynamic Volume which could be handy for late night listening when you not hearing the speech. I would pay for the editor app to get certain features enabled, it`s 20€ i believe. Generally Audussey would be nice to have as you get dual sub eq which can become very handy when you add 2nd subwoofer as it sets individually levels/delays for each. I think overall your woofer should sound better with it.

It also has Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization / DTS Virtual X so you get some height effects without having overhead/upfiring speakers with 5.1 system. I don`t know how effective this is, but it adds something for sure.

Preouts is big reason why it´s so popular in US even to be partnered with expensive speakers cause you can add some 5x200w poweramp to drive any system you crave. All this without breaking bank / selling kidney.

One thing i would consider is joining the Richer Sounds V.I.P club (free?) and then paying little extra for the 6-year warranty if the shop agrees. Try to haggle down that / ask them to give you deal for the extended warranty. I feel it´s important with electronic devices as you never know how long they last, so much packed in small box these days. Make sure you give good ventilation for it (top/sides) for longevity.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Well there is the Audussey Dynamic EQ (loudness) which lot of people loves when not blasting loud. Also Audussey Dynamic Volume which could be handy for late night listening when you not hearing the speech. I would pay for the editor app to get certain features enabled, it`s 20€ i believe. Generally Audussey would be nice to have as you get dual sub eq which can become very handy when you add 2nd subwoofer as it sets individually levels/delays for each. I think overall your woofer should sound better with it.

It also has Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization / DTS Virtual X so you get some height effects without having overhead/upfiring speakers with 5.1 system. I don`t know how effective this is, but it adds something for sure.

Preouts is big reason why it´s so popular in US even to be partnered with expensive speakers cause you can add some 5x200w poweramp to drive any system you crave. All this without breaking bank / selling kidney.

One thing i would consider is joining the Richer Sounds V.I.P club (free?) and then paying little extra for the 6-year warranty if the shop agrees. Try to haggle down that / ask them to give you deal for the extended warranty. I feel it´s important with electronic devices as you never know how long they last, so much packed in small box these days. Make sure you give good ventilation for it (top/sides) for longevity.
I'll take a look at the RS VIP - I hadn't realised this was a thing.

I just bought my speaker system off them, do you know if they would discount an AVR that's open box?

I only have the one subwoofer but I do hear the calibration software on the Denon is very good.

I'm due to have a son in a few weeks so the compressed volume mode may be handy too.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'll take a look at the RS VIP - I hadn't realised this was a thing.

I just bought my speaker system off them, do you know if they would discount an AVR that's open box?

I only have the one subwoofer but I do hear the calibration software on the Denon is very good.

I'm due to have a son in a few weeks so the compressed volume mode may be handy too.

Give them call and ask!
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I think @Gasp3621 has covered most of the main points of the X3700. For me the main reasons for going for one, HDMI 2.1 aside, is Audyssey XT32 which is a far better room correction system than that found on the Sony. You can also fine tune Audyssey by using their £20 App.

It's a more flexible amp having onboard the ability to run nine speakers and all channels have pre-outs so that bringing in external power is easy and the speaker layout becomes expandable to a full 7.2.4. It's always an amp that I'm happy to recommend for film and TV and it's probably the best incarnation of the X3XXX models to have so far been produced.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
I think @Gasp3621 has covered most of the main points of the X3700. For me the main reasons for going for one, HDMI 2.1 aside, is Audyssey XT32 which is a far better room correction system than that found on the Sony. You can also fine tune Audyssey by using their £20 App.

It's a more flexible amp having onboard the ability to run nine speakers and all channels have pre-outs so that bringing in external power is easy and the speaker layout becomes expandable to a full 7.2.4. It's always an amp that I'm happy to recommend for film and TV and it's probably the best incarnation of the X3XXX models to have so far been produced.
Do you think I'll see an improvement in SQ over the Sony AVR?

Thanks for taking the time to reply by the way!
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I'm going to say yes because Audyssey will certainly have an effect. I'm not a fan of Sony's signature and there are too many problems with speaker placement with DTS:X. You may find the Denon sounds a bit brighter and dynamic than the Sony but that's what I like about Denon for film and TV. That, to me, equates to a better audio performance overall.

It's difficult to say yea or nay to be honest as I'm not in your room with your ears.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Can you audition the X3700? That really is the only way you can tell. I am biased towards Denon because I like how they sound overall. Is the X3700 better than the X2700. Then yes and it's the X2700 that is more or less on the same tier level as the Sony and often referred against each other. It's a better overall package.

Every tier you go up in Denon there is a boost to performance and audio quality. The difference between the X2700 (versus the Sony) and the X3700 is Audyssey XT32, so much better than the basic XT found on the X2700. The difference in audio quality between the X3700 and the X4700 is the addition of the AL32 processor and so it goes on.

I would pick the X3700 over the Sony because I believe it's a better all round product with better room correction which is certainly going to have an effect on the audio quality. As a package it's considerably better than the Sony.

On the flip side I'm happy to rubbish Denon on their stereo music performance yet many people are more than happy listening to stereo music on their Denon AV amps. Picking an AV amp is as much down to expectations as overall quality and you have to strike a balance between the two. For me that would in your case be the X3700.
 

Atomcom

Active Member
I would say you biggest issue is making sure the AVR can drive the 4 ohm Dali Opticon 6. I am thinking of buying the Dali's myself but worried about driving them with a standard Yamaha AVR and not a dedicated Amp connected to the Preout..
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
I would say you biggest issue is making sure the AVR can drive the 4 ohm Dali Opticon 6. I am thinking of buying the Dali's myself but worried about driving them with a standard Yamaha AVR and not a dedicated Amp connected to the Preout..
Do you not think the 3700 will drive them?
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Can you audition the X3700? That really is the only way you can tell. I am biased towards Denon because I like how they sound overall. Is the X3700 better than the X2700. Then yes and it's the X2700 that is more or less on the same tier level as the Sony and often referred against each other. It's a better overall package.

Every tier you go up in Denon there is a boost to performance and audio quality. The difference between the X2700 (versus the Sony) and the X3700 is Audyssey XT32, so much better than the basic XT found on the X2700. The difference in audio quality between the X3700 and the X4700 is the addition of the AL32 processor and so it goes on.

I would pick the X3700 over the Sony because I believe it's a better all round product with better room correction which is certainly going to have an effect on the audio quality. As a package it's considerably better than the Sony.

On the flip side I'm happy to rubbish Denon on their stereo music performance yet many people are more than happy listening to stereo music on their Denon AV amps. Picking an AV amp is as much down to expectations as overall quality and you have to strike a balance between the two. For me that would in your case be the X3700.
Sadly they are sold out anywhere local. I could buy one remotely and return it (with paying postage).

I had convinced myself the X3700 was worth it over the X2700 for the Audyssey XT32. Anything I researched agreed with your sentiment of it being superior to the basic XT.

I had read the difference between the 3700 and 4700 is more subtle - especially if I use a stereo amp to drive the LR. I appreciate they'll still be a difference tho.

This input has honestly been very helpful. As it stands, I am quite convinced I will take the plunge. Especially with a friend keen to take the Sony off my hands - it's not every day it's so straight forward.
 

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