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Advice please....my Q400 response

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Tim Cooper, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Chap's.
    I'd like some advice on my response curve for my REL Q400.
    REL calibrated @ 25hz approx 70db.
    Tag set, speakers to small crossover to 80hz.
    Freq' resolution approx 4hz steps.
    As you can see not exactly ruler flat, Behringer required?
    The sub is sited to a side wall, just past the seating position to the front firing across the room.
    Room dimensions are 18x12x7ft approx, front of cinema from floor to ceiling has extra thick curtains (the type that used to be in old type cinemas) ceiling is suspended with 15mm armstrong "Tatra" tiles.
    When i built the place i was advised by an acoustic engineer to try and adhere to the LEDE priciple (live end, dead end) & not to over deaden the room ETC ETC BLAH BLAH:boring:
    I've never been really happy with the bass performance.
    Any advice app'd
    Tim.
     

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  2. Thunder

    Thunder
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    What speakers are you using? unless they are small designs set the cross over to the natural low freq cut off of your main speakers as at the moment your sub is having to do .1 and all the bass work for all your speakers, which is a hell of a lot of work for one sub. Also most subs arnt as agile in the upper bass frequencies as full range speakers, so you will get a cleaner sound if the speakers are covering a wider frequency band.
     
  3. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Thunder,
    I was after mainly advice on the graph is it particularly bad????
    The speakers i use are the Kef THX package with a roll off at 80hz.
    The Q400 was part of my previous system which comprised of a pair of Q65 fronts a ref centre C200 & a pair of Q65ds surrounds.
    Your right about the Q400 having to do all the work, as the previous fronts rolled off @ 38hz so the sub was ticking over really.
    I think a new sub would be in order, however because of the siting i need a front firing sub with roughly the same foot print, i also like the sealed box design which IMHO gives a taughter & faster bass with next to no overhang, at the expense i might add, of sheer low end grunt that an open box design can give you, i guess that rules out the SVS designs???
    I could go for another Q400 but again the siting isn't ideal as the new sub would be exactly opposite my existing sub.
    I think it's about time to pension off the Rel methinks.
    Thanks for the input.
    Tim.
     
  4. avanzato

    avanzato
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    +/- 5db is IMO a good frequency response for a sub in a room.

    What do feel you are missing from the sub bass peformance?
     
  5. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Hi Mat,
    I guess i'm after sub-bass something to make you jump & smile a lot;)
    So you don't think my graph is too bad would you be happy with it? or do you think i do better.
    Tim.
     
  6. ridd

    ridd
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    Sounds like an SVS to me.
    Ive had a Q150 which i was never impressed with a servo 15 which i thought was great sounding.
    I now have a svs pc utlra.

    I dont think you should generilse say ported boxes are faster.
    Also i thought i needed another box firing into the room like my dead sevo did. It turns out i didnt. Oh and tubes also have a pretty small footprint.
    What im saying is dont dissmiss the tubes untill you have found someone near you who would let you listen to one.
    I think you will be very very very surprised.

    Mark
     
  7. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Hi Mark,

    I never said that, i said that sealed boxes were IMHO faster, however, to be fair, the last time i auditioned sub's was 4 years ago & i preferred the sealed box sound, things may have well changed, i need to get out more....

    I was under the impression that SVS subs favour corners, because of the siting of my kit (under the screen between the fronts) i can only site my sub to a side wall no where near a corner, also the big tubes are 39 & 46 inches high this blocks the screen for the poor sap sitting on the end, kids usually:smashin:

    You offering;).....I won't dismiss anything until i've heard it, i will not buy "blind" & it's a little far to go for a demo:D

    Fair points Mark cheers m8ty
    Tim.
     
  8. avanzato

    avanzato
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    My SVS sounds rubbish in the corner so it's been 1/4-1/3 the way down the side wall all the time I've had it. Before that I had a REL 200E and always found it a bit underwhelming also it didn't go loud gracefully. Never listened to a 400 so can't comment on it but I'm sure there are better/more exciting subs out there. No I'm not saying get a SVS as they do have certain size and appearance issues.

    And you frequency curve.. I wouldn't be bothered but others would Eq the pants off it until it was as flat as a pancake. ;)
     
  9. ridd

    ridd
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    i Think svs recommend corner placement to utilise boundry loading in the generaly bigger rooms in the states.
    Here in the uk where our average room size is much smaller its not so important. Unfortuntaly they are the only unoccupied spaces i have left in my room :(
    I wish my graph was that flat.
    I a +12-15db peak between 30 and 55hz then a -10 dip and 63hz - 70 :(
    tried it in 3 corners and it makes no difference. I have used the built in peq to tame the peak but im stuck with the dip. i guess its bfd time for me.
    If you can find someone near you id try and get a listen. At least then you know what everyone else is ranting on about.

    Mark
     
  10. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Right anyone in Essex with a Velo or svs be willing to give me a demo:lease:

    I would dearly love to try one of these subs in my room to see if that would bring on the wide grins;)

    Cheers.
    Tim.
     
  11. apocklington

    apocklington
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    The top one is sub (blue) with no cross over control against my main speakers (pink).
    The bottom one is with my sub (blue) cross over set to approx 40Hz, against my main speakers (pink)
     

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  12. avanzato

    avanzato
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    Tony that's a nice flat line for the Rel there :thumbsup:

    Have you tried lowering the crossover to 35hz or under?
    It looks to me like there's still a small amount of overlap on the second graph. If you get it right you'll have a perfect blend and a better frequency response than my sub.... again :rolleyes:
     
  13. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Nice 1 Tony,
    Does it sound any better?
    Hey Mat if you need another home for your SVS i may know someone who will take it;)
    Cheers.
    Tim.
     
  14. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Hi Tim

    If you fancy a trip to Kent in a couple of weeks time I can show you what an SVS 20/39Plus can do. Even in my huge room it's pretty damned impressive.

    Unfortunately I'm currently looking to sell my Rotel Power Amps & Speakers and will be going for actives so my room isn't at it's best right now. The carpet's going in on 6th May. Acoustically my main HT room isn't finished yet, but you'll certainly get an idea what power can come from 1 SVS in 12,500 cubic feet on space. Out performs the 2 x Servo15s I had in there previously.

    I also have a Q400 and a Rel Storm here and could possibly set all three up in my 2nd system room (approx 24ft x 14ft). Unfortunately I only have a Sony 780Amp in there right now and can't work out how to calibrate the stupid thing as it has a left/right fader for the front 2 mains rather than separate controls per channel:suicide:

    Let me know what if you want to pop over. You could come earlier but you'll have to take things as you find them.

    Mark.
     
  15. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Hi Mark,
    LMK when it's convenient for you & i'll be there:smashin:
    I've just bought a servo 15 & i'm off to Exeter tommorow to pick it up, hopefully this will give me the grunt i'm after, i've also heard Steve Maddisons Velo HGS 15, most impressive, so listening to the SVS will give me some indication which to go for.
    Steve's HGS 15 is for sale, hopefully i can get all these demo's done & if the Velo is the one to go for & if Steve's Velo is still for sale i'll maybe go for that.
    When the Servo's in i'll try that on it's own first then with the Rel just to see what it sounds like, if it sounds ok i'll stick with them.
    I would ideally love to have a listen to all these subs in my room before commiting myself (not asking for much am i).
    Cheers.
    Tim.
     
  16. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Hi Tim

    I'm going to need a few or two to get my room(s) sorted I'm afraid.

    My HT room is upside down right now, I don't actually have a front soundstage in there at all as the mains are on eBay and the centre will be too when I find the pigging Mono-Amp links. But I should be reasonbly sorted by the first week in May. I'm intending to get BlueSkys in early the week after next. If I get sidetracked and forget to contact you again do jog my memory about my invite.

    As I said before, you can come sooner, we could use the living room system, but things really aren't as good as they should be right now.

    I'm really busy at the moment so don't have the time to bring my SVS over to you, but I'll see if I can find the time soonish. Are you available anytime in the afternoon on any weekday?

    Mark.
     
  17. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Hi Mark,
    I wasn't hinting that you bring your SVS to me, just that it would be nice to hear it in my room:thumbsup:
    I picked up my Servo 15 Sunday & I am quite pleased, although early indications show the REL Q400 to be more "musical" however i'm after an AV sub after all, so the points moot. I'll post a more detailed "report" in another thread.
    To answer your other questions yes i'm sometimes available during the day up to 3pm when i'm on a lateshift however i'm at work for another 2 weeks lates this week then days next week then i'm on a course for 9 weeks so i'll be on dayshift only.
    If you need a hand getting your big room finished give me a shout i reckon i could spare a day or so:smashin:
    Thanks again.
    Tim.

    PS. Don't want another Q400 do you:rotfl:
     
  18. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I'm in the minority here but I'm really not a Servo15 fan. I had a pair in my HT room and they didn't impress me very much.

    I generally have most early afternoons available as I work very anti-social wholesale market hours to up to 3pm would be fine. Let me know the next time you have a some time available and I'll see what I can do.
    It's the money that's keeping it slow right now, but thanks for the offer. I do need to find a plasterer who'll do a big patch 14ft up a wall though;) My Carpet man has delayed me (again!) and I'm now wondering whether to wait until after my 40th in May...I know I have a load of relatives coming and I can just see one of them spilling Red Wine on my lovely new floor.

    Erm...No Thanks, I'd get shot! My wife still doesn't know I bought one off the Forum, it's safely stored in my HT room right now. It doesn't fit in my living room where I had intended it to go so I want to try it as a "support" sub in my HT, but will have to wait until it's back together, ideally with the carpet down.

    I did give it a quick try and it worked very nicely in the living room, though Dom who I bought it from clearly likes seizmic levels of bass at the settings he used with it!:eek: STill, his VeloDD15 will surely manage to demolish his HT, even if the Q400 didn't.

    Mark.
     

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