Advice please - complete "noob"

shyamt

Standard Member
Hi there,

Hoping for some advice for speakers to go with a TV I plan to buy soon - Panasonic TH42px80 to go in a gym/play room.

I don't have that high a budget, I'd say £150 max, and I basically want something to make up for the TV speakers, as I've heard they're quite bad. Also as it's a gym I wanted something that would be hearable whilst equpiment such as treadmill is on.

I was getting TV from Richer Sounds and they had recommended Cambridge Audio SS10 @ £149.95 (in ceiling speakers x 2) along with a Yamaha CRXM170 (which is an amplifer as well as CD player + DAB - not sure what I need an amplifier for?!).

Please could you possibly advise me on what would me best for me, taking the above into account, and also explain to me the need for an amplifer? Why can't the speakers go directly into the TV.

Thanks very much!
 

covdude

Banned
Hello,

The amp will power the speakers !

If the TV was adequate or designed to power external speakers itself then this defeats the object of buying external speakers.

I shall not go into details as one im just a noob trying to help a fellow noob.

Up your budget a bit and buy a half decent power amp and some decent speakers.

Or do what i do, MP3 and trainers !!

Ope you get it sorted soon.

Yours,

Steve
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Are you sure that wasn't an 'OR', this system OR that system?

At £150, you are cutting it pretty thin. You are either looking at self-amplified speakers, or a micro-system.

Here is a £200 option -

Audioengine 5 @ £200 -
http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk...NGINE5/Audioengine_5_Speaker_System.3125.html

5"woofer, 2-way, built-in 45watt amps, 2 inputs, lots of good reviews (see bottom of linked page)

Audioengine 2 @ £110 -
http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk...NGINE2/Audioengine_2_Speaker_System.3131.html

3" woofer, 2-way, built-in amps, 2 inputs, see review at bottom of linked page.

No radio or CD, but you could connect a portable CD player to one of the inputs.

A good old stand-by, but again, no radio or CD -

Acoustic Energy Aego M 2.1 @ £114
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/2543

This system is frequently recommended and is an award winner.

Then next choice, if you want CD/Radio, is a micro-system. Keep in mind, that a micro-system is only going to have about 25watt per channel. So, you can't expect much from it, but it will certainly be better than your TV.

SuperFi Micro-Systems-
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/category.cfm/category/101/StartRow/1/pageno/2/sort/asc

Anything less than £199, is just a glorified tabletop radio.

If you can push up to just over £300, then there is one option in Hi-Fidelity, that would come close to meeting your needs.

Look at the bottom of Post number 12 at this link, for more details -
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=835968

This is a separate Cambridge Audio CD Player, Teac AM/FM Receiver, and some Mordaunt-Short Avant 302 speakers from Richer Sound.

For the money you have available, those are about your only choices.

Also, keep in mind that if you already have a DVD player in the room, that will play CD's as well.

It is clear what they recommended for you, but it is not clear what your needs are beyond £150 and better sound from the TV. Do you need a CD player (not if you already have a DVD)? Do you need an AM/FM radio?

A basic audio amp with pretty nice speakers is going to come in closer to £250; possibly, slightly less.

I'm not sure about the in-ceiling speakers. They are nice if you are already remodeling, or if you happen to have a suspended tile ceiling. But if not, it means running wire in the walls and ceiling, which means tearing them up a bit. The alternative is to simply wall mount some bookshelf speakers near the TV and accept that, though fairly, it should be the job done nicely.

The best I can do is point you in the direction of equipment that seems to fit within the parameters you gave, in they end, you have to make the choices.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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shyamt

Standard Member
Hi,

Thanks to both of you for the advice. Well, if I were to buy actual speakers rather than in ceiling ones, I'd want much longer ones, but I think they're out of my budget.

I am actually remodelling at the moment, so the mess it would make is not a problem, but how do you think ceiling ones would actually sound, paricularly this (as recommended), as I know there are also other ones available on other sites for around £99.

Also the amplifier, is this particular model necessary, or can I go for something cheaper... What difference would going with something cheaper mean? And finally, why do I even need an amplifier (I don't really need a CD/DAB player), can't the speakers just be connected up to the TV?

Thanks,

Shyam
 

covdude

Banned
Hi

If the TV can change its own ampyifying output to its audio out then in thoery i suppose it could power your speakers.

The tvs sound capability is in tune with its own speakers, so its more of a case of it not being worth it without an amp.

If you want decent sound follow one of wizards recomendations.

If you have a gym then you must be able to afford it !

My suspicions are tahta this maybe a job your doing, as its no point buying a flash car if you cant afford the petrol for it ?

Yours,

Steve
 

shyamt

Standard Member
Can I ask at what you think of this, it seems great for the price for me... almost too good to be true!

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...id=PION-DCS370

Edit: I was just told that the above would not allow me to use all 5 speakers with standard TV, just two? Is this correct?

Now also considering both of these, can I have your opinions please, bearing in mind that I want to use all 5 speakers with my TV:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-HTS3.../ref=de_a_smtd

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pr_product_top
 
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shyamt

Standard Member
Hi,

Looking for a home cinema set for a new Panasonic 42" plasma I'm getting, mainly used for SD TV + movies, as well as some gaming.

I have a fairly low budget, certainly no more than £250!

I've been considering both of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0016J2YXK/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-HTS...scaling/dp/tech-data/B000RT88P8/ref=de_a_smtd

Can I have your opinions please on the speakers, differences between them I might notice, and any additional costs I should bear in mind if I bought them (I really have no clue about how these things work!)

Thanks!
 
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turk3y

Well-known Member
the thing that jumps out at me is you want to use it for gaming so I would assume and ps3/360 so what you need is a setup that has an optical in so you can enjoy the 5.1 experience in game as well as movies.

I think

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-DAV-DZ...5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223148395&sr=1-5

has a optical in, no idea about its sound tho.

or

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-S...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223148395&sr=1-10

optical in and Vera link to link with your tv, again i have no idea of the sound.

these are over your budget (just) perhaps for what you want it might be better to go with a pc 5.1 setup

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/74753

then complement with a dvd player or use the console to play dvds etc... I have not heard this either but a guy at work does and reckons its pretty dam good for the £
 
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shyamt

Standard Member
the thing that jumps out at me is you want to use it for gaming so I would assume and ps3/360 so what you need is a setup that has an optical in so you can enjoy the 5.1 experience in game as well as movies.

I think

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-DAV-DZ...5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223148395&sr=1-5

has a optical in, no idea about its sound tho.

or

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-S...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223148395&sr=1-10

optical in and Vera link to link with your tv, again i have no idea of the sound.
Thanks. Would I be able to get 5.1 sound through normal TV with the ones I mentioned in my original post?
 

turk3y

Well-known Member
Thanks. Would I be able to get 5.1 sound through normal TV with the ones I mentioned in my original post?

normal tv? freeview or free sat inbuilt tuners in the tv?

if so I doubt it as you would need an optical out from the tv (probably has one) but the home cinema would need a 5.1 optical in which i am not sure that it has.

this would also mean no 5.1 from sky etc..

for 5.1 from anything other than the dvd player you need a suitable input on the home cinema kit. Its not always possible to tell from amazon you will need to check the manufactures site etc..

did a bit more checking on amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-DAV-DZ...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223152944&sr=1-1

that one states digital-in, but the sony site says "Connect via optical or coaxial digital inputs" :smashin:

also forgot to say you would be much better in the all in one forum on here, lots of advice for these types of setup and some posts on the above sony I believe so perhaps people can give their opinions. good luck as there is almost too much choice on further investigation.
 
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shyamt

Standard Member
normal tv? freeview or free sat inbuilt tuners in the tv?

if so I doubt it as you would need an optical out from the tv (probably has one) but the home cinema would need a 5.1 optical in which i am not sure that it has.

this would also mean no 5.1 from sky etc..

for 5.1 from anything other than the dvd player you need a suitable input on the home cinema kit. Its not always possible to tell from amazon you will need to check the manufactures site etc..

did a bit more checking on amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-DAV-DZ...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223152944&sr=1-1

that one states digital-in, but the sony site says "Connect via optical or coaxial digital inputs" :smashin:

also forgot to say you would be much better in the all in one forum on here, lots of advice for these types of setup and some posts on the above sony I believe so perhaps people can give their opinions. good luck as there is almost too much choice on further investigation.
Hi, it would be through freeview, through the inbuilt digital tuner in the TV.

This
is the TV specification, but can't see any optical out!? Does that mean there is no way of getting 5.1 sound?!
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Sorry those links aren't working. You must have copied them from another post. What is shown is text is a truncated version of the actual link. If you are going to copy a link you need to right-click and select 'Copy Link Location'.

I think this might be the Richer Sound link you meant to post -
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=PION-DCS370


Yes, you need an amp of some type. It is extremely rare for a TV to have an 'speaker' output connector. Conceivably it is possible, but I've never actually seen it.

Usually what you have is some type of 'audio' output which is like a pre-amp output and is meant to drive another amp.

The speakers and amp you picked will probably do a fair job.

Cambridge Audio INCOGNITO SS10 (Per pair - In-ceiling Speakers) @ £149/pr
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=CAMB-INCOGNITO-SS10

Yamaha CRXM170 Micro Black (Excluding speakers) @ £129
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=YAMA-CRXM170-BLK

As far as the speakers, there is very little information on them that allows me to make a judgment. These speakers are intended to be part of Cambridge Audio, in-wall, in-ceiling, multi-room sound system, and as such without knowing the power handling, frequency response, and most importantly, the speaker impedance, it is a tough call to make.

Speakers similar to that will probably fill you need, but I can't say specifically about those particular speakers as they are meant to be part of the remote controlled Incognito audio system.

The amp is tolerable in general. It will probably serve you better than the TV internal amps.

The other systems you are suggesting seem to be all-in-one 5.1 AV systems. In this case, you get what you pay for. Most people I know, have these all-in-one solutions, so they do work. But again, you get what you pay for.

Though that completely changes things. The all-in-one 5.1 AV system is completely different that what you told us you wanted.

We are always going to encourage you to spend more money, because more money will buy you more and better sound. But ultimately, you have to make the decision, and you have to reach the compromise between sound quality and cost.

If that compromise is in-ceiling speakers and a micro-receiver, then that is it.

If you are already remodeling then in-ceiling or in-wall speakers are not such a bad idea.

Here is a link to in-wall in-ceiling speakers sorted by brand -

http://www.hifix.co.uk/sku_list.las...inorg=b82526f7385b107b&minor_id=&major_id=124

I think pretty much anything here will do the job for you.

Ultimately, we can only point you at possibilities, you must make the final choice.

Steve/bluewizard
 

shyamt

Standard Member
Thanks for that detailed post. Sorry the corrected links are:

http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct∓pid=PION-DCS370
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0016J2YXK/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-HTS...scaling/dp/tech-data/B000RT88P8/ref=de_a_smtd

I'd much prefer to have standing speakers than in ceiling ones, but then also my budget is quite limited, with £250 being the very very upper limit. Those three are ones I have found that seem to meet the budget, but just wanted an opinion on how good they were etc.. and if they would work well with the TV I have choosen (Panasonic 42PX80B) - I would be using in a home gym for general watching tv (with in built digital tuner), DVDs, and Nintendo Wii (and also possibly a Virgin/Sky box 360/PS3 in the future).

Thank you!
 
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BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Once again, you links aren't working because they are not complete links. Notice the '...' in the middle of each link, that means a huge chunk of the link has been left out. Rather than try to copy links out of other threads, which is what I assume you are doing, follow the link to the website, and cut and paste from the address bar.

From the quality in-ceiling speakers I've seen, they are going to cost you as much as some nice bookshelf speakers. So, unless you specifically WANT in-ceiling speakers, there is no advantage to them.

If you must, consider these or similar -

Yamaha CRXM170 Black (Excluding speakers) @ £129
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=YAMA-CRXM170-BLK

In a later post, you mentioned several things that you thought you might want to hook up the this amp; game box, DVD, Cable, etc..., make sure this amp has all the necessary connections that you are going to need.

Mordaunt Short 302 AVANT Maple (Per pair) @ £69.95
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=MORD-302-AVANT-MAP

Mordaunt Short has a reputation for making fine sounding speakers.

TOTAL = £199.90

But don't discount this AM/FM receiver with (alleged) 100watt/channel.

Teac AG790 Black (Stereo Receiver) @ £149
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=TEAC-AG7090

This is a full sized, full features, high powered AM/FM Receiver. TEAC is also an old and respected name in audio equipment. Again, I'm not sure why this amp is such a low price, but to find out, simply call (or email) and ask.

At, or just under £100, I think you will have a hard time beating the Tannoy F1 bookshelf speaker. This is an award winning, highly rated speaker with excellent low end response. The Tannoy F1 should work equally well with a micro-amp or a full sized high power amp.

Tannoy F1 CUSTOM Apple (Per pair) @ £99
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=TANN-CUSTOM-F1

Available for £10 less at SuperFi -

TANNOY MERCURY F1 CUSTOM SPEAKERS (PAIR) @ £89
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3154

TOTAL = £239.90 to £249.90

NOTE: you must look at all your equipment, determine the interconnect types and make sure you have sufficient and proper interconnects for the equipment you have. I think in most cases, you will connect various components directly to your TV, than route the TV Audio Output to your Amp and speakers.

Also, you mentioned a DVD player, if you have one, then you should be able to play music CD's from your DVD player.

In the end, we can only point you at possibilities, we can't tell you what to buy. You have to evaluate the possibilities, and make the final decision yourself.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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shyamt

Standard Member
Once again, you links aren't working because they are not complete links. Notice the '...' in the middle of each link, that means a huge chunk of the link has been left out. Rather than try to copy links out of other threads, which is what I assume you are doing, follow the link to the website, and cut and paste from the address bar.

From the quality in-ceiling speakers I've seen, they are going to cost you as much as some nice bookshelf speakers. So, unless you specifically WANT in-ceiling speakers, there is no advantage to them.

If you must, consider these or similar -

Yamaha CRXM170 Black (Excluding speakers) @ £129
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=YAMA-CRXM170-BLK

In a later post, you mentioned several things that you thought you might want to hook up the this amp; game box, DVD, Cable, etc..., make sure this amp has all the necessary connections that you are going to need.

Mordaunt Short 302 AVANT Maple (Per pair) @ £69.95
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=MORD-302-AVANT-MAP

Mordaunt Short has a reputation for making fine sounding speakers.

TOTAL = £199.90

But don't discount this AM/FM receiver with (alleged 100watt/channel).

Teac AG790 Black (Stereo Receiver) @ £149
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=TEAC-AG7090

This is a full sized, full features, high powered AM/FM Receiver. TEAC is also an old and respected name in audio equipment. Again, I'm not sure why this amp is such a low price, but to find out, simply call (or email) and ask.

At, or just under £100, I think you will have a hard time beating the Tannoy F1 bookshelf speaker. This is an award winning, highly rated speaker with excellent low end response.

Tannoy F1 CUSTOM Apple (Per pair) @ £99
http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=TANN-CUSTOM-F1

Available for £10 less at SuperFi -

TANNOY MERCURY F1 CUSTOM SPEAKERS (PAIR) @ £89
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3154

TOTAL = £239.90 to £249.90

NOTE: you must look at all your equipment, determine the interconnet types and make sure you have sufficient and proper interconnects for the equipment you have. I think in most cases, you will connect various components directly to your TV, than route the TV Audio Output to your Amp and speakers.

Also, you mentioned a DVD player, if you have one, then you should be able to play music CD's from your DVD player.

In the end, we can only point you at possibilities, we can't tell you what to buy. You have to evaluate the possibilities, and make the final decision yourself.

Steve/bluewizard

Thanks for the detailed post. I have corrected the links, but was typing them right all along, just, the forum software mistakes the first part as being a link, due to underscores in the links..

I really did want a surround system, with tall boys, particularly the Samsung - what do you think of that?

thanks
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Again, to some extent, you have changed the rules of the game right in the middle of play.

As to all-in-one and micro-system, you get what you pay for. They do what they do, and if you feel they serve your need and budget then that's your decision to make.

Keep in mind that most people I know have surround sound systems smaller and cheaper that the Samsung you are looking at. It serves their needs and they are satisfied. I can't read your mind, but if you think this will work for you, and meets your need for quality, then it is probably OK. It is all about perspective. There are some who look down on £5000 surround systems as entry level, while others look at the same thing as the pinnacle of quality.

You seem to have considered some possibilities and seem to have done a fair bit of shopping. So, now the final decision is up to you.

steve/bluewizard
 

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